On Feb 21, 11:47*pm, (Brian) wrote:
In article
,



(aquachimp) wrote:
*Subject:* Garden design software
*From:* aquachimp
*Date:* Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:19:37 -0800 (PST)

On Feb 21, 5:59*pm, (Brian) wrote:
In article

,

(aquachimp) wrote:
In short, it wont really design squat for you. You'll have to do
that.
You'll have to scribble down measurements. Get ideas read up on
stuff.
Walk the plot. Think.
It wont do your thinking.

HTH

Yes, we realise that. We have measured what's there already, and
I'm in
the process of turning that into an Autocad plan. That will be our
starting point. The software it to 'jiggle' things around, and
then *to
view 3D/walkthrough in say 10 years time.

Cheers!

Ah yes, jiggling around is easier than on paper, though there may be
an argument that the greater difficulty of paper causes one to
'think'
more and so creates greater room for potential advancement.

There of course the other aspects of garden design. There are those
terms , like balance and continuity, 9etc) which I can't say I've
seen
software trying to tackle.
Ditto with the use of colour, or lack of, nor stuff like the golden
ration or fibonacci sequences and there's more.

And here's one I doubt you'll have ever even heard of;
It something I used to do when presented with a garden acclaimed to
be
a certain type of garden, e.g. a representation of an authentic
Japanese garden, or an English Cottage garden, a 'natural'
landscape,
and so on.
I had already studied these long enough to be able to 'see'
invisible
qualities and patterns. So, what I 'saw' each time were numbers and
letters.

I don't know why, but I'd 'see' these gardens as a sort of (usually)
square shaped picture and consisting of just numbers and letters.

In the case of the Jap. garden, I would picture it as having a base
line 9botom sixth) made up of a small scattering of even numbers
with
the majority of that base space *taken up consonants.
Beyond that base, there were odd numbers and quite a number of
vowels
and in fairly specific places.
Cottage gardens were mostly even numbers with consonants making up a
general background base (in this case the "base" *is like a first
coat
of paint).

The thing is, creations representing 'authentic' garden type always
came up with the same pattern of numbers and letters no matter how
different the gardens themselves within each category might be.

I used to try and work out why I was able to 'see' like this and
why.
I wondered if my interpretation (which is what I viewed it as)
related
to a context that I couldn't actually see in each garden but caused
a
reaction personal to me. That meant I wanted to check if others
could
do something similar so occasionally I'd ask someone if they
wouldn't
mind indulging me by, naming a particular tree by a number. But
these
never worked. they'd want to know what I meant by a number. I'd say,
any number and how it's a bit like seeing someone called Max and
saying yeah, the name suits, so, "see that tree, what number do you
think would suit it in the same way".
It never worked, they couldn't grasp what I was getting at {maybe
you
can't either(-:}

But that all just to underline the difference with the human mind
and
garden software.

have fun

That's a very different way of viewing things! I'm a bit more 'engineer',
and I like straight lines...


Sounds like a 'Belgium' garden.

Lots of buxus, taxus and even ligustrum to create little hedges within
the garden and hedges within those hedged in places too. Along with ,
though not always with formal looking water features. Lines of trees.
Straight sections of grass.

Quite Arty looking sometimes. Other times simply pretentiously over
designed

Block planting not unlike a design style system for a factory or
office where the designer is resolutely ensuring that the landscape
contractor doesn't have to apply any personal input, or thinking. (not
much 'soul') It's just 20 of this next to 30 of that, where this block
is square, the next rectangular, the next a triangle(ish) and so on.
It is possible to do this and yet give it plenty of 'soul'. The only
place I can recall seeing it done very well was along the main route
from Ilford (Essex) towards Seven Kings up the road.
I don't know who was responsible, but he/she certainly knew what they
were doing, I'd say. (one has to walk it though to get the full sense
of what is at work.)

but that's going to be part of the fun. Not
ending up with something that looks like Bézier got there before me. ;-)
I'm sure I could get 'phi' in there somewhere...

http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal...iIndproof.html
any help?

aesthetic reasons only
of course. (or just to be awkward I'd bend that to make 'e' or root two!)

Anyway, I digress, as I've said to Sacha elsewhere in this thread, the
plan now exists on paper and is being scribbled on with pencil and
rubber.

Cheers!

In article ,
Martin wrote:

Google Sketch Up is free, and easy to learn, or so I am told by my son.
http://sketchup.google.com/

A quick glance indicates that it's a lot more complicated than xfig,
but could well be worth trying. I can't be bothered to fire up a
Microsoft system to look.

It's used by professionals as a quick design alternative to Autocad.

DEFINITELY a lot more complicated than xfig, then. If they had a
Linux version, I might be interested, but I am not going to inflict
Microsoft upon myself just for that.

Some of us have their PCs set up to be able to run both. )

Well, so do I. But I have never found anything that is worthwhile
enough for me to use Microsoft for anything significant. I fairly
often use it when the Linux utility fails on a Microsoft-generated
file, only to discover that the Linux utility is bug-for-bug
compatible with the standard Microsoft distribution, and the file is
only readable with whatever bizarre version and configuration was
used to write it.

And, if Microsoft Offence springs to mind when reading that, you have
understood me perfectly.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Martin wrote:

Well, so do I. But I have never found anything that is worthwhile
enough for me to use Microsoft for anything significant.

Since you don't appear to try. I am not surprised )

I suggest that you read what I actually say, rather than reading
your opinions into what I say. Most people who do the latter succeed
in misunderstanding me perfectly, and your comment above is not an
exception to that.

There are probably more versions of Linux kicking around than of Windows,
bizarre or otherwise.

Variation is not well measured by mere counts. There are more varieties
of floribunda rose than of berberis grown in UK gardens.


Anyway, enough is enough on this tediousness. I shall stop here.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Feb 22, 11:49*am, (Brian) wrote:
In article ,



(Sacha) wrote:
*Subject:* Garden design software
*From:* Sacha
*Date:* Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:26:26 +0000

On 21/2/09 22:00, in article
,
"Brian" wrote:

In article ,
(Sacha) wrote:

*Subject:* Garden design software
*From:* Sacha
*Date:* Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:13:34 +0000

On 21/2/09 16:00, in article
,
"Brian" wrote:

In article

,
(aquachimp) wrote:

In short, it wont really design squat for you. You'll have to
do
that.
You'll have to scribble down measurements. Get ideas read up on
stuff.
Walk the plot. Think.
It wont do your thinking.

HTH

Yes, we realise that. We have measured what's there already, and
I'm in
the process of turning that into an Autocad plan. That will be
our
starting point. The software it to 'jiggle' things around, and
then *to
view 3D/walkthrough in say 10 years time.

Cheers!

The subject has come up a few times over the years here. *The
overall view
seems to be that you're just as well off with a pad of paper and
a
stub of
pencil. *
snip

Well, the plan is complete, and printed out a few times... since
then
it's been pencil and rubber ;-)

Very many thanks.

Cheers!

Let us know how you get on, won't you? *;-)

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
Perennials & shrubs online

It's a small plot, so I might redraw the finished sketch and stick them
on the web.. *I'll post a link here.

Cheers!

looking forward to it. No pressure mind (-:.

Just happened to find this http://www.wsnla.org/AnatomyofaGarden.htm
Spcifically that it has a good check list for design elements that
software doesn't always do.
"Unity, Proportion and Scale, Balance and Boundaries, Alighment and
Proximity, Focal Points and Sight Lines, Repetition and Pattern,
Contrast and Texture, Five senses and Time, and Simplicity are the
design principles that contribute to "building proportioned and well-
arranged gardens. "
It then spells them out. deals with Phi too

It's by a Kate Easton... might that be the Kay Easton wot used to post
here I wondered

On 22/2/09 14:47, in article
,
"aquachimp" wrote:
snip

Just happened to find this http://www.wsnla.org/AnatomyofaGarden.htm
Spcifically that it has a good check list for design elements that
software doesn't always do.
"Unity, Proportion and Scale, Balance and Boundaries, Alighment and
Proximity, Focal Points and Sight Lines, Repetition and Pattern,
Contrast and Texture, Five senses and Time, and Simplicity are the
design principles that contribute to "building proportioned and well-
arranged gardens. "
It then spells them out. deals with Phi too

It's by a Kate Easton... might that be the Kay Easton wot used to post
here I wondered

I doubt it as that's in Washington USA. But 'our' Kay still posts here.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
Perennials & shrubs online

I know it's already been mentioned but SketchUp is very good if you spend
the time to learn the basics. One thing it will do which might be of
interest to people here is generate sun studies where you put in the
location of your garden on the earth and the date you want in the year and
you can see what will be shaded if you put up new trees or fencing.

BTW there are 100's well a lot anyway of r=free tutorials to help you get to
grips with it
http://sketchup.google.com/training/videos.html

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en... Search&meta=

Just checked and it looks like sun studies aren't included in the free
version but there are work arounds discussed in here
http://groups.google.com/group/sketc...57e7cd3e?pli=1

HTH

Tim
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lusername/

In article , no
(Tim) wrote:

*Subject:* Garden design software
*From:* "Tim" no
*Date:* Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:07:22 GMT

I know it's already been mentioned but SketchUp is very good if you
spend the time to learn the basics. One thing it will do which
might be of interest to people here is generate sun studies where
you put in the location of your garden on the earth and the date
you want in the year and you can see what will be shaded if you put
up new trees or fencing.

BTW there are 100's well a lot anyway of r=free tutorials to help
you get to grips with it
http://sketchup.google.com/training/videos.html

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...utorial&btnG=G
oogle+Search&meta=

Just checked and it looks like sun studies aren't included in the
free version but there are work arounds discussed in here
http://groups.google.com/group/sketc...thread/thread/
83e7e95b57e7cd3e?pli=1

HTH

Tim
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lusername/



Yes, we have downloaded it, and now the weekend is here, it's time to sit
and have a play. I have done the CAD drawing of the existing layout and
printed it, (just as outlines) and she who must be obeyed is currently
using her artistic talent to create something slightly less 'regimental'.
More as it happens.

Cheers!