On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:39:56 GMT, Malcolm
wrote:

As many of you are aware, the RSPB, SNH joint slaughter campaign for
the Uist hedgehogs has begun, the nazi CONservation hooligans are
desperate to thwart the efforts of professional bodies to re-locate
these victims of nazi style wildlife persecution within conservation.
The hedgehogs are one of many millions of animals slaughtered annually
by tabletop conservationists in the UK and they are doing it with your
donations, given to protect wildlife. Join the fight to save the
wildlife from the CONservation hooligans and expose the lie of the
necessity for culling.

Duchess offers home to doomed hedgehogs
JAMES FREEMAN
ANIMAL rights organisations and hedgehog lovers, including a duke and
duchess, closed ranks yesterday to fight for the 5000 animals on Uist
and Benbecula facing death.

The hedgehogs, introduced to the islands, are blamed for killing off
the islands' wading birds by eating their eggs.

As the issue became an international news item one campaigner appeared
on television and radio in New Zealand to protest over the proposed
cull, and the Duke and Duchess of Hamilton volunteered assistance.

Kay, Duchess of Hamilton, a member of the governing committee of
Advocates For Animals, an Edinburgh-based protection organisation,
offered to house up to 160 on two estates in East Lothian. "My husband
stopped the shooting of pheasants on the estates years ago so we have
no problem with hedgehogs taking eggs."

Scottish Natural Heritage decided killing the hedgehogs by lethal
injection was the only way to save the birds. It said any rescue must
be confined to a 10-day window at the end of April after hibernation
and before the females become pregnant.

Les Stocker of St Tiggiewinkle's rescue centre in Buckinghamshire
appeared on broadcasts across New Zealand. He said: "The 10-day window
is a nonsense. Males can be moved at any time and it is easy for
experienced handlers to sex hedgehogs."

The campaigners, inundated by offers of garden homes for hedgehogs,
will meet next month to plan a rescue.

Ross Minett, of Advocates For Animals, has set up a Save our Hedgehogs
bank account and is appealing for donations. Saving all 5000 is
estimated to cost as much as £125,000.





A recent letter from the groups saving the hogs.

" I am writing to say thank you so much for sending a very generous
donation towards our "Save our Hedgehogs" appeal. We are extremely
grateful for your support, and this donation is much appreciated.

I must also apologise for the delay in writing to you; we have had a
tremendous response to our appeal and I thought you might like to know
that we have now raised just over £25,000 for our rescue operation. As
you may recall, we estimate that it will cost approximately £25 to
safely remove and relocate each hedgehog to the mainland so, whilst we
are delighted with the total achieved, we will continue with our
appeal so that we can save as many of these 5,000 animals as possible.

At the end of last year, we formed "Uist Hedgehog Rescue", a coalition
of animal rescue organisations and wildlife experts, and worked
together to ensure our rescue plan was in place when the hedgehogs
started to emerge from hibernation. Planning and starting the rescue
has been a very time consuming operation. We went to the islands early
in March to establish our holding centre, with veterinary facilities
for the hedgehogs, together with accommodation for our volunteers who
are helping to find the animals. Towards the end of March, members of
UHR returned to the islands and we began looking for hedgehogs. It was
a slow start, as the weather was cold so most of the animals were
still hibernating. However, with the arrival of warmer weather they
started to emerge and we are delighted that, to date, we have saved
107 animals.

Every hedgehog found is taken to our holding centre and checked by a
UHR veterinary nurse. Before being moved to the mainland, each animal
is examined by our expert wildlife vet to ensure they are fit to
travel, and the animals are then being moved to a rescue centre in
Ayrshire. From there, they are released in pairs at approved release
sites and it was a joy to see the first animals exploring their new
surroundings!

Our rescue will continue this year through to September and I will let
you know the total number that we have saved. In the meantime, sincere
thanks again for your generous donation and for supporting our
appeal."

You can join in by visiting any of these groups.

http://www.avenuesonline.org.uk/cons.../hedgehogs.php

http://www.advocatesforanimals.org.uk/Hedgehogs.htm

http://www.hedge-hog.co.uk/


Remember when you donate money to CONservation hooligans like the
RSPB, SNH etc, what they are really up to with your funds.

If they are not slaughtering deer, it is ruddy duck, fox, squirrels
etc.

--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..

"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:ce889ef004784f157cb9e79547607d57@TeraNews...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:39:56 GMT, Malcolm
wrote:

As many of you are aware, the RSPB, SNH joint slaughter campaign for
the Uist hedgehogs has begun, the nazi CONservation hooligans are
desperate to thwart the efforts of professional bodies to re-locate
these victims of nazi style wildlife persecution within conservation.
The hedgehogs are one of many millions of animals slaughtered annually
by tabletop conservationists in the UK and they are doing it with your
donations, given to protect wildlife. Join the fight to save the
wildlife from the CONservation hooligans and expose the lie of the
necessity for culling.


If the hedgehogs go, then more birds will survive and they'll eat more fish.
How come fish are less worthy than birds? Though if the fish are eaten, more
plankton will survive. So does it really matter, or is just a pointless
argument about which species live and which die, but it all comes out even
in the end?

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups)


\..

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

If the hedgehogs go, then more birds will survive and they'll eat more
fish.

Which of the birds in question eat fish?

Malcolm scribbled:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:39:56 GMT, Malcolm
wrote:

As many of you are aware, the RSPB, SNH joint slaughter campaign for
the Uist hedgehogs has begun, the nazi CONservation hooligans are
desperate to thwart the efforts of professional bodies to re-locate
these victims of nazi style wildlife persecution within conservation.
The hedgehogs are one of many millions of animals slaughtered
annually by tabletop conservationists in the UK and they are doing
it with your donations, given to protect wildlife. Join the fight to
save the wildlife from the CONservation hooligans and expose the lie
of the necessity for culling.

Maybe the answer here is to view this as a marketing opportunity. There is
money to be made. Baked hedgehog (furze pig) is a delicacy among my people.
Perhaps the farming of hedgehogs for consumption offers a solution to the
Uist problem. With proper marketing and education of the palette, hedgehogs
can be managed not only to reduce the population on Uist but to provide
funds for other conservation projects.

SJR

ESAD

Tumbleweed wrote:

"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:ce889ef004784f157cb9e79547607d57@TeraNews...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:39:56 GMT, Malcolm
wrote:

As many of you are aware, the RSPB, SNH joint slaughter campaign for
the Uist hedgehogs has begun, the nazi CONservation hooligans are
desperate to thwart the efforts of professional bodies to re-locate
these victims of nazi style wildlife persecution within conservation.
The hedgehogs are one of many millions of animals slaughtered annually
by tabletop conservationists in the UK and they are doing it with your
donations, given to protect wildlife. Join the fight to save the
wildlife from the CONservation hooligans and expose the lie of the
necessity for culling.


If the hedgehogs go, then more birds will survive and they'll eat more fish.
How come fish are less worthy than birds? Though if the fish are eaten, more
plankton will survive. So does it really matter, or is just a pointless
argument about which species live and which die, but it all comes out even
in the end?

If humanity is involved it's likely that only the cute and/ or nuisance
spp will survive. I worry about the beetles and earthworms myself. The
invertebrate residents of the Duchess of Hamilton's estate clearly
aren't worthy either ;-(

regards
sarah


--
"Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view,
is silence about truth." Aldous Huxley

Strikes me there is a big financial side to this fiasco which is being
overlooked.

Regardless of whether you think moving the animals is better than
culling them - the hedgehog rescuers are conning the public out of
their cash.

Here is why.

The cull is taking place on North Uist, where there aren't all that
many hedgehogs at the moment. The tactic seems to be nipping the
problem in the bud before they really get a toehold.

As a result, its kinda difficult to get hold of animals on North Uist
- whether you want to cull them or move them, they are still a rarity.

The culling team have I understand managed to dispatch only 30
hedgehogs after three weeks work.

But the really startling thing is that Uist Hedgehog Rescue - a
coalition including St Tiggywinkles and the British Hedgehog
Preservation Society - have only managed to remove ONE single solitary
hedgie from North Uist. And they started a week before the cullers
did.

Considering the tens of thousands of pounds in donations they have
received that seems a pretty poor strike rate for saving hedgehogs.

Sure they have moved a hundred or so hedgehogs off the Western Isles -
but they all came from South Uist and Benbecula - not North Uist where
the cull is taking place.

South Uist and Benbecula have a lot more hedgehogs so its obviously
easier to catch them there. This makes for great newspaper coverage
and everybody gets to pat themselves on the back and say "Aren't we
just dandy for saving the poor wee beasties."

But no. Because if you have only removed one animal from the area
where the cull is taking place, and are raising heaps of cash to do it
- then you are conning the people who are funding you.

Seems to me these groups see this cull as a huge money-making
opportunity, affording great publicity. As far as I can see it they
have saved one single animal at a cost to the charitable public of
over £70,000.

It just doesn't add up.

"Mick Manford" wrote in message
om...
Strikes me there is a big financial side to this fiasco which is being
overlooked.


Nonsense - £70,000 is peanuts, and the 'conners' would have to spend
weeks/months in the Hebrides to collect.

In article , BAC
writes
"Mick Manford" wrote in message
. com...
Gorgeous George wrote in message
...
On 28 Apr 2003 09:03:52 -0700, (Mick Manford)
wrote:

Instead of just typing in "Lie" when you don't like something I say,
perhaps you could add some extra, you know, like, arguement to back up
your claim.

Similarly you state boldly that I am somebody called Gervais or
something like that. Utter nonsense and indeed a lie. I'm Mick
Manford. My mother can confirm this.

Do enlighten me as to why you think I am somebody else.

Are you denying that Uist Hedgehog Rescue have only removed one animal
from North Uist? Have you asked them. Cos if you phone them up that is
what they will tell you. Nobody need take my word for it on this. If
you ask them how many hedgehogs they have taken they will tell you
over a hundred. If you ask them how many were from North Uist where
the cull is taking place they will tell you one (unless the figure has
shot up in recent days)

Perhaps you may recall that the aim of both the SNH cullers and the hedgehog
welfare organisations is to remove all hedgehogs from the Uists and
Benbecula over a period of years to try and reduce hedgehog depredation on
some wading birds. If, as you imply, the hedgehog welfare organisations have
removed around a hundred hedgehogs from the islands so far this year, that
is a hundred or so less to disrupt the birds, and about three times better
(i.e. more) than has been accomplished by the cullers in the same period.

The cullers, operating solely in North Uist, have apparently culled c.30
from an estimated population of 200 (=15%) on that island, while the
removers, operating mainly on Benbecula and South Uist, have removed
c.100 from an estimated population of 5000 (= 2%).

You make a very valid point that every one removed from whichever island
means fewer birds' eggs eaten, but I haven't actually seen the removers
say other than they are protecting hedgehogs from being culled.

If the hedgehog people merely wished to frustrate the cull, they would
presumably be attempting to sabotage it, rather than relocate hedgehogs.

I have not seen a single claim from the removers that the hedgehogs
aren't to blame for the reduction in breeding birds. Therefore, if
frustrating the cull was ever actually considered, it must have been
very quickly appreciated that it was not the way forward.

--
Malcolm

In article , BAC
writes
"Malcolm" wrote in message
...
In article , BAC
writes
"Mick Manford" wrote in message
. com...
Gorgeous George wrote in message
...
On 28 Apr 2003 09:03:52 -0700, (Mick Manford)
wrote:

Instead of just typing in "Lie" when you don't like something I say,
perhaps you could add some extra, you know, like, arguement to back up
your claim.

Similarly you state boldly that I am somebody called Gervais or
something like that. Utter nonsense and indeed a lie. I'm Mick
Manford. My mother can confirm this.

Do enlighten me as to why you think I am somebody else.

Are you denying that Uist Hedgehog Rescue have only removed one animal
from North Uist? Have you asked them. Cos if you phone them up that is
what they will tell you. Nobody need take my word for it on this. If
you ask them how many hedgehogs they have taken they will tell you
over a hundred. If you ask them how many were from North Uist where
the cull is taking place they will tell you one (unless the figure has
shot up in recent days)

Perhaps you may recall that the aim of both the SNH cullers and the
hedgehog
welfare organisations is to remove all hedgehogs from the Uists and
Benbecula over a period of years to try and reduce hedgehog depredation
on
some wading birds. If, as you imply, the hedgehog welfare organisations
have
removed around a hundred hedgehogs from the islands so far this year,
that
is a hundred or so less to disrupt the birds, and about three times
better
(i.e. more) than has been accomplished by the cullers in the same period.

The cullers, operating solely in North Uist, have apparently culled c.30
from an estimated population of 200 (=15%) on that island, while the
removers, operating mainly on Benbecula and South Uist, have removed
c.100 from an estimated population of 5000 (= 2%).

You make a very valid point that every one removed from whichever island
means fewer birds' eggs eaten, but I haven't actually seen the removers
say other than they are protecting hedgehogs from being culled.

If the hedgehog people merely wished to frustrate the cull, they would
presumably be attempting to sabotage it, rather than relocate hedgehogs.

I have not seen a single claim from the removers that the hedgehogs
aren't to blame for the reduction in breeding birds. Therefore, if
frustrating the cull was ever actually considered, it must have been
very quickly appreciated that it was not the way forward.


As you must know, BHPS agreed at an early stage, and prior to SNH's decision
in the matter, that removal of the hedgehogs was justified, in the interests
of the waders. I don't think they ever argued that the hedgehogs should be
left to their own devices, nor did they consider sabotaging the cull
(although it would not be surprising if some individuals not connected with
the main hedgehog welfare groups had not thought about that). They only
wanted the trapped hedgehogs to be turned over to them for translocation via
their established national welfare apparatus.

If you thought this, with which I generally agree, what was the point of
your statement "If the hedgehog people merely wished to frustrate the
cull, they would presumably be attempting to sabotage it, rather than
relocate hedgehogs"? You seem to have introduced a possibility which
didn't happen, which you didn't expect to happen, and which is therefore
irrelevant to any argument.

As this option has been denied, they just have to make the best of a bad
job, but we shouldn't overlook the fact that the main beneficiaries of their
efforts are the threatened waders, nor that the success of the overall
removal project is likely to benefit from their efforts.

Agreed, except that none of the "removers" has actually stated this,
despite having the opportunity to do so. Instead they have concentrated
on the aspect of saving the hedgehogs from being culled.

--
Malcolm

"W K" wrote in message
...

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

If the hedgehogs go, then more birds will survive and they'll eat more
fish.

Which of the birds in question eat fish?


I have no idea but since they live on a small island if they dont eat fish
they eat insects, so change that that to less insects instead of fish. It
all still works out the same in the end, its a conversation about where in
the food chain you prefer the biomass to be.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups)