A good few years ago, I bought a supply of ground limestone
for occasional liming use in the garden. I've attempted to find a source
recently and drawn a blank form local garden centres. Is such stuff still
available? I'm in West Yorks near Wakefield, if anyone else local can
recommend a source.

cheers
jim

In article ,
(Jim Jackson) writes:
|
| A good few years ago, I bought a supply of ground limestone
| for occasional liming use in the garden. I've attempted to find a source
| recently and drawn a blank form local garden centres. Is such stuff still
| available? I'm in West Yorks near Wakefield, if anyone else local can
| recommend a source.

Try builders' merchants. Lime is used for some mortars - it might be
slaked lime, so that would need to be added when nothing was growing.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
(Jim Jackson) writes:
|
| A good few years ago, I bought a supply of ground limestone
| for occasional liming use in the garden. I've attempted to find a source
| recently and drawn a blank form local garden centres. Is such stuff still
| available? I'm in West Yorks near Wakefield, if anyone else local can
| recommend a source.

Try builders' merchants. Lime is used for some mortars - it might be
slaked lime, so that would need to be added when nothing was growing.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

He should be able to get the right stuff from horticultural suppliers in
his area failing that LBS horticulture do it online mail order
www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
(Jim Jackson) writes:
|
| A good few years ago, I bought a supply of ground limestone
| for occasional liming use in the garden. I've attempted to find a
source
| recently and drawn a blank form local garden centres. Is such stuff
still
| available? I'm in West Yorks near Wakefield, if anyone else local can
| recommend a source.

Try builders' merchants. Lime is used for some mortars - it might be
slaked lime, so that would need to be added when nothing was growing.

?

Slaked lime is inactive, unlike quicklime which produces heat when it gets
wet - and turns into slaked lime.

I'm sure you knew that ... :-)

Mary

In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:
|
| Try builders' merchants. Lime is used for some mortars - it might be
| slaked lime, so that would need to be added when nothing was growing.
|
| ?
|
| Slaked lime is inactive, unlike quicklime which produces heat when it gets
| wet - and turns into slaked lime.
|
| I'm sure you knew that ... :-)

Yes :-) For people who aren't into the old terms ....

Chalk, limestone etc. (calcium carbonate) is weakly alkaline - much
like baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Slaked lime (calcium hydroxide)
is strongly alkaline - much like washing soda (sodium carbonate) - and
will burn roots and leaves.

Quicklime (calcium oxide) is no more alkaline than slaked lime,
but is viciously hygroscopic, and not stuff to meddle with. Like
caustic soda (sodium hydroxide), though that is 'merely' an extreme
alkali and not hygroscopic. God alone knows what sodium oxide is
like, but I don't want to get anywhere near even a small quantity!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:
|
| Try builders' merchants. Lime is used for some mortars - it might be
| slaked lime, so that would need to be added when nothing was growing.
|
| ?
|
| Slaked lime is inactive, unlike quicklime which produces heat when it
gets
| wet - and turns into slaked lime.
|
| I'm sure you knew that ... :-)

Yes :-) For people who aren't into the old terms ....

Chalk, limestone etc. (calcium carbonate) is weakly alkaline - much
like baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Slaked lime (calcium hydroxide)
is strongly alkaline - much like washing soda (sodium carbonate) - and
will burn roots and leaves.

Quicklime (calcium oxide) is no more alkaline than slaked lime,
but is viciously hygroscopic, and not stuff to meddle with. Like
caustic soda (sodium hydroxide), though that is 'merely' an extreme
alkali and not hygroscopic. God alone knows what sodium oxide is
like, but I don't want to get anywhere near even a small quantity!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Without google and cut and paste Mr Maclaren would be lost.

On 18 Mar, 18:35, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
God alone knows what sodium oxide is
like, but I don't want to get anywhere near even a small quantity!

You do right.
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/SO/sodium_oxide.html
"Reacts violently with water, acids and with many other compounds.
Store under dry inert gas. May lead to fire in contact with
combustible material."

bobharvey wrote:
On 18 Mar, 18:35, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
God alone knows what sodium oxide is
like, but I don't want to get anywhere near even a small quantity!

You do right.
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/SO/sodium_oxide.html
"Reacts violently with water, acids and with many other compounds.
Store under dry inert gas. May lead to fire in contact with
combustible material."

Strangely inaccurate for the last sentence (but then there is a disclaimer
page http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/ - which also seems odd for Oxford Uni).

I doubt Sodium oxide would lead to fire in contact with combustible
material. But Sodium Peroxide, well, that's another matter entirely -
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/SO/sodium_peroxide.html

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

In article ,
"Jeff Layman" writes:
|
| I doubt Sodium oxide would lead to fire in contact with combustible
| material. But Sodium Peroxide, well, that's another matter entirely -
| http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/SO/sodium_peroxide.html

No, that's not what they mean. If it is in contact with anything
combustible, I believe that the water vapour in the air is enough
to cause a fire.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Jeff Layman says...
bobharvey wrote:
On 18 Mar, 18:35, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
God alone knows what sodium oxide is
like, but I don't want to get anywhere near even a small quantity!

You do right.
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/SO/sodium_oxide.html
"Reacts violently with water, acids and with many other compounds.
Store under dry inert gas. May lead to fire in contact with
combustible material."

Strangely inaccurate for the last sentence (but then there is a disclaimer
page http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/ - which also seems odd for Oxford Uni).

I doubt Sodium oxide would lead to fire in contact with combustible
material. But Sodium Peroxide, well, that's another matter entirely -
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/SO/sodium_peroxide.html



I don't know about Sodium oxide, but I've had "fun" with
sodium and potassium metals in contact with combustible
organic chemicals. They have a tendency towards spontaneous
combustion even in the absence of oxygen. I had one
experiment years ago that did just that and it was
impossible to put the resulting fire out. My employer
wasn't too impressed either because it was a total flame
free environment and I'd got a beaker with six feet high
flames roaring out. T'was fun though.
--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted.

Charlie Pridham wrote:

He should be able to get the right stuff from horticultural suppliers in
his area

But so far I've failed...

failing that LBS horticulture do it online mail order
www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk

wonderful - thanks for the reference.

Jim

In article ,
(Jim Jackson) writes:
| Charlie Pridham wrote:
|
| He should be able to get the right stuff from horticultural suppliers in
| his area
|
| But so far I've failed...
|
| failing that LBS horticulture do it online mail order
| www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk
|
| wonderful - thanks for the reference.

Another possibility, which might be more convenient for some people,
is to dissolve builders' (slaked) lime in a watering can with the
cheapest possible vinegar (COLD) and water it on. That would
certainly be the fastest acting way of remedying lime deficiency.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
(Jim Jackson) writes:
Charlie Pridham wrote:

He should be able to get the right stuff from horticultural
suppliers in his area

But so far I've failed...

failing that LBS horticulture do it online mail order
www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk

wonderful - thanks for the reference.

Another possibility, which might be more convenient for some people,
is to dissolve builders' (slaked) lime in a watering can with the
cheapest possible vinegar (COLD) and water it on. That would
certainly be the fastest acting way of remedying lime deficiency.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Does lime deficiency = calcium deficiency? Or is there a pH issue as well?

If you are just trying to add "neutralised" lime, could you do the same
thing with gypsum?

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

In article ,
"Jeff Layman" writes:
|
| Does lime deficiency = calcium deficiency? Or is there a pH issue as well?

Essentially, yes and yes!

Few plants give a damn about the pH within a very wide range, and
the actual problem of seriously acid soils is that it makes calcium
inaccessible to them. Similarly very alkaline ones makes iron
inaccessible. I don't know the details, but there is also an issue
with magnesium inaccessibility and perhaps other elements.

But a significant point of liming seriously acid soils is to change
the type of soil - plants don't need anywhere near as much calcium
as the recommended liming rates. That is often stated in terms of
adjusting the pH, but it's not that simple. Again, I don't know the
details.

Whatever they are, the fact is that it ISN'T the pH that matters, but
whether certain essential elements are bound up in inaccessible forms.
The chemistry of chelation is seriously complicated, even for experts,
and I have only an O-level!

| If you are just trying to add "neutralised" lime, could you do the same
| thing with gypsum?

Yes. That is, however, a bit more 'acidic' than calcium acetate.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
"Jeff Layman" writes:
|
| Does lime deficiency = calcium deficiency? Or is there a pH issue as well?

Essentially, yes and yes!

Few plants give a damn about the pH within a very wide range, and
the actual problem of seriously acid soils is that it makes calcium
inaccessible to them. Similarly very alkaline ones makes iron
inaccessible. I don't know the details, but there is also an issue
with magnesium inaccessibility and perhaps other elements.

But a significant point of liming seriously acid soils is to change
the type of soil - plants don't need anywhere near as much calcium
as the recommended liming rates. That is often stated in terms of
adjusting the pH, but it's not that simple. Again, I don't know the
details.

Whatever they are, the fact is that it ISN'T the pH that matters, but
whether certain essential elements are bound up in inaccessible forms.
The chemistry of chelation is seriously complicated, even for experts,
and I have only an O-level!

| If you are just trying to add "neutralised" lime, could you do the same
| thing with gypsum?

Yes. That is, however, a bit more 'acidic' than calcium acetate.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I wonder how this relates to the blue/red hydrangea issue. Are lime
hating plants necessarily acid loving?