In article ,
says...
In message , Charlie
Pridham writes
In article ,
says...
On 6/3/08 18:55, in article , "Eddy"
wrote:

Sacha wrote:
The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he
http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html

Sacha, have just discovered that that entire site, above, consists of
material taken from Wikipedia . . . which is largely USA-generated. So
perhaps not "frequently sold" in UK at all?

Eddy.


No idea, unless you're just going on R. officinalis. I didn't go further
than looking it up on your given information,the name 'Irene'. I don't know
where it's grown in UK. All I got was the site I posted for you. I have an
old Plant Finder on my desk (04-05) and there is no mention of such a
rosemary. Perhaps you could ask Olivier Filippi if he knows of it.


Rosmarinus officinalis 'Irene'? (Irene Rosemary): High Country Gardens
Seems it was found growing wild in northern california and has been
registered for plant breeders rights and the name trade marked, I have
not seen any outlets over here but no doubt it wont be long. I am a
little puzzled as I thought Rosemary was a med. plant? do they have their
own species in California or is it just a garden escape.

http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/g...41721&expand=1

Thanks, that makes it pretty clear.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

On 7/3/08 18:45, in article ,
"Charlie Pridham" wrote:

In article ,
says...
In message , Charlie
Pridham writes
In article ,
says...
On 6/3/08 18:55, in article , "Eddy"
wrote:

Sacha wrote:
The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he
http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html

Sacha, have just discovered that that entire site, above, consists of
material taken from Wikipedia . . . which is largely USA-generated. So
perhaps not "frequently sold" in UK at all?

Eddy.


No idea, unless you're just going on R. officinalis. I didn't go further
than looking it up on your given information,the name 'Irene'. I don't know
where it's grown in UK. All I got was the site I posted for you. I have
an
old Plant Finder on my desk (04-05) and there is no mention of such a
rosemary. Perhaps you could ask Olivier Filippi if he knows of it.


Rosmarinus officinalis 'Irene'? (Irene Rosemary): High Country Gardens
Seems it was found growing wild in northern california and has been
registered for plant breeders rights and the name trade marked, I have
not seen any outlets over here but no doubt it wont be long. I am a
little puzzled as I thought Rosemary was a med. plant? do they have their
own species in California or is it just a garden escape.

http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/g...41721&expand=1

Thanks, that makes it pretty clear.

Following on from this, I've heard back from San Marcos Growers who have put
me in touch with Phil Johnson, the owner of what we call PBR on this
Rosemary. I've asked him if he knows of an outlet in UK. I have also the
name and details of the person who handles the Patent so if need be I can
get in touch with her. I think we have to just wait to see what transpires
now.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Pam Moore wrote:
I saw a rosemary growing like that over walls in St Mawes, Cornwall.
I came home and tried to find out what it was without success. If I
had a wall I'd have continued my search! It was really beautiful,
very like your photo.

Thanks, Pam! So the stuff IS in the UK! It's likely then that somebody
will be selling it. Let's track it down!

Eddy.

Sacha wrote:
That may well have been the so-called 'Salcombe Rosemary' that I posted a
pic of on here some time ago, Pam. Nobody can actually name it but thinks
it must be a sport of some sort. I think Judith's husband is still trying
to get his botanist friends to track that one down. The Salcombe one is
even longer but from the description of 'Irene', I'd say the Salcombe
Rosemary isn't as deep in colour, perhaps.

http://i1.tinypic.com/6c6mufk.jpg

Wow, Sacha! That's beautiful. I think I feel an obsession coming on!
I've GOT to have some of this. Hmmmm. Pity I can't pick a little
sprig while sauntering past that wall! :-)

Makes the US patenting of the Irene a bit of a nonsense, doesn't it!
Unless, of course, it IS the Irene!

Eddy.

P.S. Off topic, Sacha, did you hear the R4 news this morning and the
interview with a Jersey chap who says Jersey has similarities to certain
East European states, in terms of being closed and somewhat governed by
fear! He referred to the power of the island's Bailiff, for example,
saying it was a left-over of France's Ancien Regime. All I can say is
that in researching my grandparents' fate there (during the Nazi
occupation) I have met some resistance and "closedness" from island
authorities. They have not wanted to be as communicative as one would
have expected!

Sacha wrote:
Following on from this, I've heard back from San Marcos Growers who have put
me in touch with Phil Johnson, the owner of what we call PBR on this
Rosemary. I've asked him if he knows of an outlet in UK. I have also the
name and details of the person who handles the Patent so if need be I can
get in touch with her. I think we have to just wait to see what transpires
now.

Thanks, Sacha. Will be watching this thread now with bated breath!

Eddy.

On 8/3/08 17:56, in article , "Eddy"
wrote:

Sacha wrote:
That may well have been the so-called 'Salcombe Rosemary' that I posted a
pic of on here some time ago, Pam. Nobody can actually name it but thinks
it must be a sport of some sort. I think Judith's husband is still trying
to get his botanist friends to track that one down. The Salcombe one is
even longer but from the description of 'Irene', I'd say the Salcombe
Rosemary isn't as deep in colour, perhaps.

http://i1.tinypic.com/6c6mufk.jpg

Wow, Sacha! That's beautiful. I think I feel an obsession coming on!
I've GOT to have some of this. Hmmmm. Pity I can't pick a little
sprig while sauntering past that wall! :-)

Makes the US patenting of the Irene a bit of a nonsense, doesn't it!
Unless, of course, it IS the Irene!

That's what's so intriguing. I hope to hear/learn more about it.

Eddy.

P.S. Off topic, Sacha, did you hear the R4 news this morning and the
interview with a Jersey chap who says Jersey has similarities to certain
East European states, in terms of being closed and somewhat governed by
fear! He referred to the power of the island's Bailiff, for example,
saying it was a left-over of France's Ancien Regime. All I can say is
that in researching my grandparents' fate there (during the Nazi
occupation) I have met some resistance and "closedness" from island
authorities. They have not wanted to be as communicative as one would
have expected!


I'm finding this Haut de la Garenne thing very peculiar. One journalist
wrote of 'sink estates'. I don't know of one 'sink estate' in Jersey. The
one which once had a bad reputation is now changed totally. And Stuart
Syvret has said that the 'Jersey people' have been complicit in a cover up.
Well, I'm 'Jersey people' and I've lived in the island for varying periods,
having been born there. The longest I lived there was from late 1975 to
1997. In my last 8 years there, I lived about 3 minutes from Haut de la
Garenne. I can say, hand on heart, that in all those years I have never
heard one whisper of the horrors that appear to have gone on there. In
fact, in the mid 90s, that place was used as a boarding house for a local
school (not remotely implicated in this investigation) and I know for
certain that nobody using it then knew of this story. The extent to which
it was known has been blown out of all proportion, though I do not dispute
that horrors certainly went on there. I know one of those who has recently
declared themselves as being an abused child so I'm not in denial about it.
It is possible that some local officials *of that time* knew of abuse and
maltreatment of children but the public as a whole, no, never, or not to my
knowledge and without wishing to appear boastful, I was pretty well
connected in the island and knew a very wide circle of people for a great
number of years.
I wish Frank Walker and Stuart Syvret would stop their skirmishing and let
the police do their job. In my view, both are prejudicing the eventual
outcome. There can be no doubt that all this has to be exposed and any
living culprits dealt with to the extreme of the law. But the facts are
that many are dead so some truths will never be revealed. Senator
Krichefski has been mentioned as an abuser by one person. He was an
enormously prominent public figure, both as a Senator and in the tailor's
shop he owned. But he's dead. This is going to be a major problem, always.
The idea that the island is closed and governed by fear is simply daft. The
Bailiff is a combination of the head of the judiciary and Speaker and the
Governor is the Monarch's representative. This is no different to the Lord
Chancellor and the Monarch herself. I happen to know the current Bailiff
slightly and I know his Deputy quite well. There is nothing 'frightening'
or intimidating about either of these men, other perhaps, than their very
considerable intelligence. I knew a past Bailiff (now deceased) even better
because he and my mother did a lot of AmDram together during the Occupation
years. There is a member of the British Parliament with responsibility for
the Channel Islands. Fear of what by whom? Anyone can stand for the
States, it costs nothing, compared to English or US elections. At one point
some people suggested I did so - not a prayer - I'd hate it! I've never
heard of anyone being 'warned off' from taking for the States but I have
heard of a lot of pub room lawyers and right now, they're having a field
day.
There are no party politics so you vote for the person you consider best for
the job for your Parish (Deputy) or the island as a whole (Senator). What
would serve justice and police investigations best is for those who keep
sniping at each other to shut right up and let the police, who seem to be
extremely thorough and led well, to get on with their job.

If you're having trouble with regard to your own family, I suggest you
contact Freddie Cohen who is still, I think, a member of the States. He is
President of the Jersey Jewish Congregation, too. He's no push over when it
comes to Jewish history in Jersey. I think you will find that it isn't a
question of 'closedness' so much as ignorance. The Islands were cut off
from the mainland of UK for 5 years and received only sporadic news and
information and all of that was obtained through illegal wireless sets. The
penalty for having one was deportation or worse. From the German side -
their masters during the Occupation - all they knew was what the Germans
told them. That's what Occupation means - loss of freedom, loss of
autonomy, loss of communication. At the time that Jews were taken from the
islands, or from parts of Occupied Europe, nobody knew what they were going
to because nobody had the gift we have now of hindsight. Do get in touch
with Freddie Cohen. If he can help you, I'm sure he will.


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Sacha wrote:

On 8/3/08 17:56, in article , "Eddy"
wrote:

Sacha wrote:
That may well have been the so-called 'Salcombe Rosemary' that I posted a
pic of on here some time ago, Pam. Nobody can actually name it but thinks
it must be a sport of some sort. I think Judith's husband is still trying
to get his botanist friends to track that one down. The Salcombe one is
even longer but from the description of 'Irene', I'd say the Salcombe
Rosemary isn't as deep in colour, perhaps.

http://i1.tinypic.com/6c6mufk.jpg

Wow, Sacha! That's beautiful. I think I feel an obsession coming on!
I've GOT to have some of this. Hmmmm. Pity I can't pick a little
sprig while sauntering past that wall! :-)

Makes the US patenting of the Irene a bit of a nonsense, doesn't it!
Unless, of course, it IS the Irene!

That's what's so intriguing. I hope to hear/learn more about it.

I'm looking forward to it.

Eddy.

P.S. Off topic, Sacha, did you hear the R4 news this morning and the
interview with a Jersey chap who says Jersey has similarities to certain
East European states, in terms of being closed and somewhat governed by
fear! He referred to the power of the island's Bailiff, for example,
saying it was a left-over of France's Ancien Regime. All I can say is
that in researching my grandparents' fate there (during the Nazi
occupation) I have met some resistance and "closedness" from island
authorities. They have not wanted to be as communicative as one would
have expected!


I'm finding this Haut de la Garenne thing very peculiar. One journalist
wrote of 'sink estates'. I don't know of one 'sink estate' in Jersey. The
one which once had a bad reputation is now changed totally. And Stuart
Syvret has said that the 'Jersey people' have been complicit in a cover up.
Well, I'm 'Jersey people' and I've lived in the island for varying periods,
having been born there. The longest I lived there was from late 1975 to
1997. In my last 8 years there, I lived about 3 minutes from Haut de la
Garenne. I can say, hand on heart, that in all those years I have never
heard one whisper of the horrors that appear to have gone on there. In
fact, in the mid 90s, that place was used as a boarding house for a local
school (not remotely implicated in this investigation) and I know for
certain that nobody using it then knew of this story. The extent to which
it was known has been blown out of all proportion, though I do not dispute
that horrors certainly went on there. I know one of those who has recently
declared themselves as being an abused child so I'm not in denial about it.
It is possible that some local officials *of that time* knew of abuse and
maltreatment of children but the public as a whole, no, never, or not to my
knowledge and without wishing to appear boastful, I was pretty well
connected in the island and knew a very wide circle of people for a great
number of years.
I wish Frank Walker and Stuart Syvret would stop their skirmishing and let
the police do their job. In my view, both are prejudicing the eventual
outcome. There can be no doubt that all this has to be exposed and any
living culprits dealt with to the extreme of the law. But the facts are
that many are dead so some truths will never be revealed. Senator
Krichefski has been mentioned as an abuser by one person. He was an
enormously prominent public figure, both as a Senator and in the tailor's
shop he owned. But he's dead. This is going to be a major problem, always.
The idea that the island is closed and governed by fear is simply daft. The
Bailiff is a combination of the head of the judiciary and Speaker and the
Governor is the Monarch's representative. This is no different to the Lord
Chancellor and the Monarch herself. I happen to know the current Bailiff
slightly and I know his Deputy quite well. There is nothing 'frightening'
or intimidating about either of these men, other perhaps, than their very
considerable intelligence. I knew a past Bailiff (now deceased) even better
because he and my mother did a lot of AmDram together during the Occupation
years. There is a member of the British Parliament with responsibility for
the Channel Islands. Fear of what by whom? Anyone can stand for the
States, it costs nothing, compared to English or US elections. At one point
some people suggested I did so - not a prayer - I'd hate it! I've never
heard of anyone being 'warned off' from taking for the States but I have
heard of a lot of pub room lawyers and right now, they're having a field
day.
There are no party politics so you vote for the person you consider best for
the job for your Parish (Deputy) or the island as a whole (Senator). What
would serve justice and police investigations best is for those who keep
sniping at each other to shut right up and let the police, who seem to be
extremely thorough and led well, to get on with their job.

If you're having trouble with regard to your own family, I suggest you
contact Freddie Cohen who is still, I think, a member of the States. He is
President of the Jersey Jewish Congregation, too. He's no push over when it
comes to Jewish history in Jersey. I think you will find that it isn't a
question of 'closedness' so much as ignorance. The Islands were cut off
from the mainland of UK for 5 years and received only sporadic news and
information and all of that was obtained through illegal wireless sets. The
penalty for having one was deportation or worse. From the German side -
their masters during the Occupation - all they knew was what the Germans
told them. That's what Occupation means - loss of freedom, loss of
autonomy, loss of communication. At the time that Jews were taken from the
islands, or from parts of Occupied Europe, nobody knew what they were going
to because nobody had the gift we have now of hindsight. Do get in touch
with Freddie Cohen. If he can help you, I'm sure he will.

Fascinating, Sacha. Thanks for this. It's certainly a very interesting
situation. I'll be watching all news coming out of Jersey from now on,
as will you, I am sure. I have a Jewish contact who is quite critical
with regard to how Jersey authorities responded to the treatment of Jews
by the Nazis during the early years of the occupation. I will tell her
of Freddie Cohen, if she doesn't already know of him.

Eddy.

On 8/3/08 19:09, in article ,
"Eddy" wrote:

snip

Fascinating, Sacha. Thanks for this. It's certainly a very interesting
situation. I'll be watching all news coming out of Jersey from now on,
as will you, I am sure. I have a Jewish contact who is quite critical
with regard to how Jersey authorities responded to the treatment of Jews
by the Nazis during the early years of the occupation. I will tell her
of Freddie Cohen, if she doesn't already know of him.

Eddy.


Good idea. If she or her family didn't live in Jersey during the Occupation
they'll find all sorts of information valuable. Everyone was in a bit of a
turmoil then and my own family was within a whisker of being deported,
though in a very different way.

I don't know if the news from Haut de la Garenne will be of particular
interest to you but there is always that possibility.
There must be a Jersey local online group that you may want to read.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'