If people use compost for starting seed off in a greenhouse - do they
use general purpose compost or "seed planting" compost?
Does it matter?

On Mar 4, 4:47 pm, judith wrote:
If people use compost for starting seed off in a greenhouse - do they
use general purpose compost or "seed planting" compost?
Does it matter?

Hi Judith from Judith in France. I use seed compost to sow seeds and
then prick out into general purpose compost which I find is far too
coarse for seeds.

Judith

On 4/3/08 16:47, in article ,
"judith" wrote:

If people use compost for starting seed off in a greenhouse - do they
use general purpose compost or "seed planting" compost?
Does it matter?

It's important to use seed compost because it won't over feed your
germinating seedlings. Some/many seedlings won't even germinate in ordinary
compost and as my husband says, "don't save pennies and waste pounds".
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:53:23 +0000, Sacha
wrote and included this (or some of this):

If people use compost for starting seed off in a greenhouse - do they
use general purpose compost or "seed planting" compost?
Does it matter?

It's important to use seed compost because it won't over feed your
germinating seedlings. Some/many seedlings won't even germinate in ordinary
compost and as my husband says, "don't save pennies and waste pounds".

I have absolutely no problem using a "general purpose compost"

(Toms, lettuce, cucumbers etc etc)

--
®óñ© © ²°¹°-°²

On 4/3/08 18:58, in article ,
"®óñ© © ²°¹°-°²" wrote:

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:53:23 +0000, Sacha
wrote and included this (or some of this):

If people use compost for starting seed off in a greenhouse - do they
use general purpose compost or "seed planting" compost?
Does it matter?

It's important to use seed compost because it won't over feed your
germinating seedlings. Some/many seedlings won't even germinate in ordinary
compost and as my husband says, "don't save pennies and waste pounds".

I have absolutely no problem using a "general purpose compost"

(Toms, lettuce, cucumbers etc etc)

Then the OP must choose your personal experience over my husband's
professional experience of 60 years. That's what newsgroups are about -
read the information and make your own choice.
His family grew lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers commercially in Essex before
he moved to Devon.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 22:29:10 +0000, Sacha
wrote and included this (or some of this):

It's important to use seed compost because it won't over feed your
germinating seedlings. Some/many seedlings won't even germinate in ordinary
compost and as my husband says, "don't save pennies and waste pounds".

I have absolutely no problem using a "general purpose compost"

(Toms, lettuce, cucumbers etc etc)

Then the OP must choose your personal experience over my husband's
professional experience of 60 years. That's what newsgroups are about -
read the information and make your own choice.
His family grew lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers commercially in Essex before
he moved to Devon.

Absolutely. My very small amount of hands-on use would certainly not
scale up to large scale- professional practice.
Mine works for me, yours for you.
Horses for courses, innit.

--
®óñ© © ²°¹°-°²

On 5/3/08 09:27, in article ,
"®óñ© © ²°¹°-°²" wrote:

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 22:29:10 +0000, Sacha
wrote and included this (or some of this):

It's important to use seed compost because it won't over feed your
germinating seedlings. Some/many seedlings won't even germinate in
ordinary
compost and as my husband says, "don't save pennies and waste pounds".

I have absolutely no problem using a "general purpose compost"

(Toms, lettuce, cucumbers etc etc)

Then the OP must choose your personal experience over my husband's
professional experience of 60 years. That's what newsgroups are about -
read the information and make your own choice.
His family grew lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers commercially in Essex before
he moved to Devon.

Absolutely. My very small amount of hands-on use would certainly not
scale up to large scale- professional practice.
Mine works for me, yours for you.
Horses for courses, innit.

Yes and part of gardening is, of course, its failures, too. It's all part
of learning. I think everyone has to push the boundaries a bit to see what
works for them. Years ago, I read a book in which the author described how
she'd asked someone to clean out the stables, intending the manure to be
heaped up and left to rot down a bit. As we are all told, fresh manure
direct onto plants is supposed to 'burn' them. Well, to her horror she saw
her helper had put the manure straight onto her flower beds, inches deep and
she was terrified all her plants were going to be killed off. In fact, they
thrived and grew wonderfully. Whether that sort of thing is a question of
luck or not believing all you read, I don't know!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Sacha wrote:

It's important to use seed compost because it won't over feed your
germinating seedlings. Some/many seedlings won't even germinate
in ordinary
compost and as my husband says, "don't save pennies and waste
pounds".

I have absolutely no problem using a "general purpose compost"

(Toms, lettuce, cucumbers etc etc)

Then the OP must choose your personal experience over my husband's
professional experience of 60 years. That's what newsgroups are
about - read the information and make your own choice.
His family grew lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers commercially in
Essex before he moved to Devon.

Absolutely. My very small amount of hands-on use would certainly
not scale up to large scale- professional practice.
Mine works for me, yours for you.
Horses for courses, innit.

Yes and part of gardening is, of course, its failures, too. It's all
part of learning. I think everyone has to push the boundaries a bit
to see what works for them. Years ago, I read a book in which the
author described how she'd asked someone to clean out the stables,
intending the manure to be heaped up and left to rot down a bit. As
we are all told, fresh manure direct onto plants is supposed to
'burn' them. Well, to her horror she saw her helper had put the
manure straight onto her flower beds, inches deep and she was
terrified all her plants were going to be killed off. In fact, they
thrived and grew wonderfully. Whether that sort of thing is a
question of luck or not believing all you read, I don't know!

I find this most intriguing.

I've often wondered if many of these suggestions are old wives tales (or
should I say "chestnuts" as this is a gardening group!).

Farmers spread raw muck over fields, and plants seem to grow happily.
Perhaps some get burnt - I don't know, but they wouldn't risk losing a crop.
But is it due to too much nitrogen as is usually stated, or that it is much
too acid (or alkaline. I've never measured the pH)?

With regard to seed compost use, why should any plant prefer a "poor" start
in life to a "rich" start? On that basis, should we feed a baby on watered
milk for the first few months of its life, as it will no doubt develop a
more efficient digestive system?

Unless a plant has a specific need for a certain soil type (eg Proteacea)
why not start it off in JI3?

I can't imagine that this has not been tried before, but if a comparison of
JI seed, 1, 2, and 3 for germination was only tested once, and that is what
all this is based on, well, perhaps we need to look again.

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

There are some questions friends should probably never discuss.. politics,
religion, sex, which is the best compost :-)

On 5/3/08 17:50, in article ,
"Jeff Layman" wrote:

Sacha wrote:

It's important to use seed compost because it won't over feed your
germinating seedlings. Some/many seedlings won't even germinate
in ordinary
compost and as my husband says, "don't save pennies and waste
pounds".

I have absolutely no problem using a "general purpose compost"

(Toms, lettuce, cucumbers etc etc)

Then the OP must choose your personal experience over my husband's
professional experience of 60 years. That's what newsgroups are
about - read the information and make your own choice.
His family grew lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers commercially in
Essex before he moved to Devon.

Absolutely. My very small amount of hands-on use would certainly
not scale up to large scale- professional practice.
Mine works for me, yours for you.
Horses for courses, innit.

Yes and part of gardening is, of course, its failures, too. It's all
part of learning. I think everyone has to push the boundaries a bit
to see what works for them. Years ago, I read a book in which the
author described how she'd asked someone to clean out the stables,
intending the manure to be heaped up and left to rot down a bit. As
we are all told, fresh manure direct onto plants is supposed to
'burn' them. Well, to her horror she saw her helper had put the
manure straight onto her flower beds, inches deep and she was
terrified all her plants were going to be killed off. In fact, they
thrived and grew wonderfully. Whether that sort of thing is a
question of luck or not believing all you read, I don't know!

I find this most intriguing.

I've often wondered if many of these suggestions are old wives tales (or
should I say "chestnuts" as this is a gardening group!).

Farmers spread raw muck over fields, and plants seem to grow happily.
Perhaps some get burnt - I don't know, but they wouldn't risk losing a crop.
But is it due to too much nitrogen as is usually stated, or that it is much
too acid (or alkaline. I've never measured the pH)?

With regard to seed compost use, why should any plant prefer a "poor" start
in life to a "rich" start? On that basis, should we feed a baby on watered
milk for the first few months of its life, as it will no doubt develop a
more efficient digestive system?

Unless a plant has a specific need for a certain soil type (eg Proteacea)
why not start it off in JI3?

I can't imagine that this has not been tried before, but if a comparison of
JI seed, 1, 2, and 3 for germination was only tested once, and that is what
all this is based on, well, perhaps we need to look again.

You might find this site interesting:

http://www.gardeningdata.co.uk/soil/...john_innes.php


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On Mar 5, 9:47*am, Sacha wrote:
On 5/3/08 09:27, in article ,
"®óñ© *© *²°¹°-°²" wrote:





On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 22:29:10 +0000, Sacha
wrote and included this (or some of this):

It's important to use seed compost because it won't over feed your
germinating seedlings. *Some/many seedlings won't even germinate in
ordinary
compost and as my husband says, "don't save pennies and waste pounds"..

I have absolutely no problem using a "general purpose compost"

(Toms, lettuce, cucumbers etc etc)

Then the OP must choose your personal experience over my husband's
professional experience of 60 years. *That's what newsgroups are about -
read the information and make your own choice.
His family grew lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers commercially in Essex before
he moved to Devon.

Absolutely. * My very small amount of hands-on use would certainly not
scale up to large scale- professional practice.
Mine works for me, yours for you.
Horses for courses, innit.

Yes and part of gardening is, of course, its failures, too. *It's all part
of learning. I think everyone has to push the boundaries a bit to see what
works for them. *Years ago, I read a book in which the author described how
she'd asked someone to clean out the stables, intending the manure to be
heaped up and left to rot down a bit. *As we are all told, fresh manure
direct onto plants is supposed to 'burn' them. *Well, to her horror she saw
her helper had put the manure straight onto her flower beds, inches deep and
she was terrified all her plants were going to be killed off. *In fact, they
thrived and grew wonderfully. *Whether that sort of thing is a question of
luck or not believing all you read, I don't know!

FWIW, I had a similar experience, spreading stuff I had received from
my local bull stud farm. It was much, much fresher than I expected,
and the only thing to look bad after I spread it was a pieris, which I
thought was evidence of burn by exceedingly fresh muck, but I later
discovered would have been happier in a pot with ericaceous compost -
where it thrives now. The rest of the bed, which had been middling
until then, just took off in the year that followed!

Cat(h)


--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sacha wrote:
On 5/3/08 17:50, in article
, "Jeff Layman"
wrote:

snip
You might find this site interesting:

http://www.gardeningdata.co.uk/soil/...john_innes.php

Yes, thank you, I had forgotten about that site.

But, unsurprisingly, it doesn't show any of the original research results
which led to the JI composts. Neither does
http://www.jic.ac.uk/corporate/media...ic/compost.htm or
http://www.johninnescompost.org/cms.php?pageid=5.

In fact, with the ref you gave, I learnt something which puzzles (and I must
say, annoys) me. And that is the information about JI Ericaceous compost.
I use that a lot, as I grow quite a few plants which don't like chalk. I had
originally assumed that it was JI3 without chalk. However, according to the
link, it is JI _Seed_ Compost (with sulphur instead of the limestone)!!!
Why Seed compost? Is it assumed that ericaceous plants wouldn't like a
little more NP and K? It is true that some of them are well adapted to poor
soils such as heathland, but is it assumed that they would not tolerate the
extra NP and K in JI3?

Or is it that the same price is charged for a bag of Ericaceous compost as
for JI3? Sulphur must be pretty expensive, then, compared with the other
(missing) ingredients.

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

In article ,
says...
Sacha wrote:
On 5/3/08 17:50, in article
, "Jeff Layman"
wrote:

snip
You might find this site interesting:

http://www.gardeningdata.co.uk/soil/...john_innes.php

Yes, thank you, I had forgotten about that site.

But, unsurprisingly, it doesn't show any of the original research results
which led to the JI composts. Neither does
http://www.jic.ac.uk/corporate/media...ic/compost.htm or
http://www.johninnescompost.org/cms.php?pageid=5.

In fact, with the ref you gave, I learnt something which puzzles (and I must
say, annoys) me. And that is the information about JI Ericaceous compost.
I use that a lot, as I grow quite a few plants which don't like chalk. I had
originally assumed that it was JI3 without chalk. However, according to the
link, it is JI _Seed_ Compost (with sulphur instead of the limestone)!!!
Why Seed compost? Is it assumed that ericaceous plants wouldn't like a
little more NP and K? It is true that some of them are well adapted to poor
soils such as heathland, but is it assumed that they would not tolerate the
extra NP and K in JI3?

Or is it that the same price is charged for a bag of Ericaceous compost as
for JI3? Sulphur must be pretty expensive, then, compared with the other
(missing) ingredients.


I think that plants growing in ericaceous soils are better able to access
plant nutriants (but not some minerals like iron) than those growing on
alkaline soils so my guess would be that the nutriant levels do not need
to be as high for the same results. As for the cost, it could be more to
do with where the loam comes from and the transport cost involved rather
than the fertilizers put in.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

Jeff Layman writes

I find this most intriguing.

I've often wondered if many of these suggestions are old wives tales (or
should I say "chestnuts" as this is a gardening group!).

Farmers spread raw muck over fields, and plants seem to grow happily.
Perhaps some get burnt - I don't know, but they wouldn't risk losing a crop.
But is it due to too much nitrogen as is usually stated, or that it is much
too acid (or alkaline. I've never measured the pH)?

With regard to seed compost use, why should any plant prefer a "poor" start
in life to a "rich" start?

Probably not the richness that affects the seedlings, more the balance
of ingredients affecting drainage/water retention.

On a commercial scale you would not want to pay extra for added
fertiliser in your seed composts when the seedlings don't need it. But
on a domestic scale, it may be cheaper to just use your general compost
instead of buying a mini-bag of seed compost. And if all you actually
want is two or three plants, it doesn't really matter whether you get
100% success from your sowing.

On that basis, should we feed a baby on watered
milk for the first few months of its life, as it will no doubt develop a
more efficient digestive system?

You shouldn't pad out its milk by adding cereal ;-)
A lot of the advice to new mothers in recent years has been on the lines
of delaying weaning and not over-feeding in the early months.


--
Kay