REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group uk.rec.gardening.allotments

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, uk.rec.gardening.allotments


NEWSGROUPS LINE: uk.rec.gardening.allotments




RATIONALE: uk.rec.gardening.allotments

The objective is to create a newsgroup in which 'Allotment holders'
can discuss allotment issues.
I have searched to find many allotment web sites and found that if
this group was opened it would allow all allotment (and would be)
allotment holders to to exchange views in one convenient place.
This in turn would give valued exchange of views by every visitor.
To also pick up tips and sometimes tricks into allotment gardening.
One place that all Allotment holders can come to discuss any problems.
Quite a few Allotments being taken over from the councils with self managed
proposals
and this newsgroup will be able to disuss this.
Allotments are a UK institution (and worldwide) and we should have a place
for it.




CHARTER:

uk.rec.gardening.allotments is an unmoderated newsgroup which will
serve as a forum for discussing the tradition of Allotment gardening. It is
not on-topic to post commercial or personal ads of any kind to
uk.rec.allotments. Debate is on-topic, but personal attacks
are heavily frowned upon. Posts containing binaries are not on-topic,
with the exception of PGP type signatures and X-Face avatars. All posts
must be in plain text and not in HTML.





PROCEDU

For more information on the newsgroup creation process, please see:

http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.p...icies:creation

Those who wish to influence the development of this RFD and its final
resolution should subscribe to news.groups.proposals and participate in the
relevant threads in that newsgroup. This is both a courtesy to groups in
which discussion of creating a new group is off-topic as well as the best
method of making sure that one's comments or criticisms are heard.

All discussion of active proposals should be posted to
news.groups.proposals.
To this end, the 'Followup-To' header of this RFD has been set to this
group.

If desired by the readership of closely affected groups, the discussion
may be crossposted to those groups, but care must be taken to ensure
that all discussion appears in news.groups.proposals as well.

We urge those who would like to read or post in the proposed newsgroup
to make a comment to that effect in this thread; we ask proponents to
keep a list of such positive posts with the relevant message ID
(e.g., Barney Fife, ).
Such lists of positive feedback for the proposal may constitute good
evidence that the group will be well-used if it is created.




DISTRIBUTION:

This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:

uk.net.news.config
uk.net.news.announce
uk.rec.gardening

PROPONENT:

G.Poston



CHANGE HISTORY:
2004-3-22 1st RFD
2008-01-27 2nd RFD

This is great idea !

Jimbo


"Gary Poston" wrote in message
...
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group uk.rec.gardening.allotments

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, uk.rec.gardening.allotments


NEWSGROUPS LINE: uk.rec.gardening.allotments




RATIONALE: uk.rec.gardening.allotments

The objective is to create a newsgroup in which 'Allotment holders'
can discuss allotment issues.
I have searched to find many allotment web sites and found that if
this group was opened it would allow all allotment (and would be)
allotment holders to to exchange views in one convenient place.
This in turn would give valued exchange of views by every visitor.
To also pick up tips and sometimes tricks into allotment gardening.
One place that all Allotment holders can come to discuss any problems.
Quite a few Allotments being taken over from the councils with self
managed proposals
and this newsgroup will be able to disuss this.
Allotments are a UK institution (and worldwide) and we should have a place
for it.




CHARTER:

uk.rec.gardening.allotments is an unmoderated newsgroup which will
serve as a forum for discussing the tradition of Allotment gardening. It
is
not on-topic to post commercial or personal ads of any kind to
uk.rec.allotments. Debate is on-topic, but personal attacks
are heavily frowned upon. Posts containing binaries are not on-topic,
with the exception of PGP type signatures and X-Face avatars. All posts
must be in plain text and not in HTML.





PROCEDU

For more information on the newsgroup creation process, please see:

http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.p...icies:creation

Those who wish to influence the development of this RFD and its final
resolution should subscribe to news.groups.proposals and participate in
the
relevant threads in that newsgroup. This is both a courtesy to groups in
which discussion of creating a new group is off-topic as well as the best
method of making sure that one's comments or criticisms are heard.

All discussion of active proposals should be posted to
news.groups.proposals.
To this end, the 'Followup-To' header of this RFD has been set to this
group.

If desired by the readership of closely affected groups, the discussion
may be crossposted to those groups, but care must be taken to ensure
that all discussion appears in news.groups.proposals as well.

We urge those who would like to read or post in the proposed newsgroup
to make a comment to that effect in this thread; we ask proponents to
keep a list of such positive posts with the relevant message ID
(e.g., Barney Fife, ).
Such lists of positive feedback for the proposal may constitute good
evidence that the group will be well-used if it is created.




DISTRIBUTION:

This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:

uk.net.news.config
uk.net.news.announce
uk.rec.gardening

PROPONENT:

G.Poston



CHANGE HISTORY:
2004-3-22 1st RFD
2008-01-27 2nd RFD

"Gary Poston" wrote

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group uk.rec.gardening.allotments

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, uk.rec.gardening.allotments


NEWSGROUPS LINE: uk.rec.gardening.allotments



Don't like the idea, sorry. We can all use this Ng and learn from each
other.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

Bob Hobden says...

"Gary Poston" wrote

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group uk.rec.gardening.allotments

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, uk.rec.gardening.allotments


NEWSGROUPS LINE: uk.rec.gardening.allotments



Don't like the idea, sorry. We can all use this Ng and learn from each
other.


I agree, the number of posts on here is relatively low
anyway compared to other newsgroups. Another split of
gardening topics will dilute it even more to the extent
that there may be so few postings to URG and the allotments
group that people just don't bother visiting the groups
anymore. When the number of posts gets below a certain
critical mass it portends the death of the group.
--
David in Normandy

On 27/1/08 17:30, in article ,
"David in Normandy" wrote:

Bob Hobden says...

"Gary Poston" wrote

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group uk.rec.gardening.allotments

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, uk.rec.gardening.allotments


NEWSGROUPS LINE: uk.rec.gardening.allotments



Don't like the idea, sorry. We can all use this Ng and learn from each
other.


I agree, the number of posts on here is relatively low
anyway compared to other newsgroups. Another split of
gardening topics will dilute it even more to the extent
that there may be so few postings to URG and the allotments
group that people just don't bother visiting the groups
anymore. When the number of posts gets below a certain
critical mass it portends the death of the group.

I can't really see the point in an allotment group. People who post here
that grow vegetables or flowers for cutting, don't always use allotments to
do so! Allotmenteers would lose their experience and tips and vice versa,
it seems to me. An allotment is just another garden, after all.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 27 Jan, 01:26, "Gary Poston" wrote:
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group uk.rec.gardening.allotments
This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, uk.rec.gardening.allotments

(snip)

This is an excellent idea. There's a lot of issues that affects
allotments now more than ever and we've seen many times that when
allotments are discussed here there's always a debate with a clear
devide between those growing on allotments and those growing in
private gardens. In these changing times we also know that the more
'conservative' gardener will sufer from the eminent changes in the way
we run our gardens, however allotmenteers have gardened in a different
way for decades and these changes won't affect them as much. This is
also very important for a common voice via a common forum to air many
issues allotmenteers have.

I could also point out examples where I've been frustrated to see
answers given to a query regarding growing a veg, on this occasion a
'tip' on an allotment because seemingly nobody had a clear answer -
out of 8 posts 2 had valued comments, and those were from
allotmenteers whilst others simply said that they had no experience
but 'they had heard somewhere' ... and one post might have been
misleading because the poster tentatively tried to give an answer
without any knowledge.

A group for allotmenteers would be an absolut gem as it will avoid
confusion, will be straight from experience gardeners with a single
aim, growing food on allotments. This wouldn't 'push' away any other
gardeners, but the choice it would give would be an invaluable
resource to anyone wanting to grow their food.

Isn't this a repeat of the same request from the same guy a couple of
years back?


David in Normandy writes
Bob Hobden says...

"Gary Poston" wrote

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group uk.rec.gardening.allotments

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, uk.rec.gardening.allotments


NEWSGROUPS LINE: uk.rec.gardening.allotments



Don't like the idea, sorry. We can all use this Ng and learn from each
other.


I agree, the number of posts on here is relatively low
anyway compared to other newsgroups. Another split of
gardening topics will dilute it even more to the extent
that there may be so few postings to URG and the allotments
group that people just don't bother visiting the groups
anymore. When the number of posts gets below a certain
critical mass it portends the death of the group.

--
Kay

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:25:00 -0000, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:


"Gary Poston" wrote

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group uk.rec.gardening.allotments

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of
the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, uk.rec.gardening.allotments


NEWSGROUPS LINE: uk.rec.gardening.allotments



Don't like the idea, sorry. We can all use this Ng and learn from
each
other.

The discussion is supposed to be in uk.net.news.config . Maybe
somebody can
retrieve the discussion and the final uk.rec.gardening.allotments RFD
from last
time?
--

Martin

I think that having another forum to discuss allotments is definitely
not a good idea. We need to stay together and pool our ideas in one
group otherwise we will tend to lose touch with each others interests
and problems. Sacha says: 'An allotment is just another garden, after
all' and I agree with her, wholeheartedly.

Regards,
Emrys Davies.

Sacha says...
I can't really see the point in an allotment group. People who post here
that grow vegetables or flowers for cutting, don't always use allotments to
do so! Allotmenteers would lose their experience and tips and vice versa,
it seems to me. An allotment is just another garden, after all.


Another issue would be "grey areas". For example fruit
trees, gardening tools, propagators, seeds and seedlings,
pests and diseases. Should they post to URG or to the
allotment group? They could always cross-post I suppose,
but those of us who have a news reader set to block cross-
posts would not see such posts at all then!
--
David in Normandy

On 27 Jan, 19:12, David in Normandy wrote:
Another issue would be "grey areas". For example fruit
trees, gardening tools, propagators, seeds and seedlings,
pests and diseases. *Should they post to URG or to the
allotment group? They could always cross-post I suppose,
but those of us who have a news reader set to block cross-
posts would not see such posts at all then!

I thought that the new forum would be 'crossposted' or linked somehow
with urg. Will it? I thought that would be idea. But perhaps as you
said people will have to change their news readers rule. It is
exciting though, really I think it is. Perhaps I'm thinking of an
ideal here - urg extending to encompass allotments in some ways. This
needs a careful thought and I might, again ;o), got excited too
quickly !!

ps. just loved your post about the frosty, crisp and fresh morning
you've had. I was heart broken as I do remember those mornings but
haven't seen one in years ... beside a few occasion I was away from
the North West. Thank you to remind me ...

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:25:00 -0000, Bob Hobden wrote:

Don't like the idea, sorry. We can all use this Ng and learn from each
other.

Agreed 100%

uk.rec.gardening is no longer a busy newsgroup. Why complicate things by
making it even less busy by setting up another group ? There are already
quite a few dead UK newsgroups - lets not add another two :-(

I grow vegetables in my *garden* - which ng should I post to if the new ng
is created ? I *don't* crosspost and *don't* read crossposts.
--
Regards,

Hugh Jampton

Gary Poston wrote:

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group uk.rec.gardening.allotments

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, uk.rec.gardening.allotments

For anyone who didn't see the thread in uk.net.news.config, this isn't a
proper RFD because it wasn't posted via Control. Gary's been told how
to to fix that.

uk.rec.gardening.allotments is an unmoderated newsgroup which will
serve as a forum for discussing the tradition of Allotment gardening.

Terrible idea. No reason to split allotment discussion from the rest of
the traffic in uk.rec.gardening.

Allotments are a UK institution (and worldwide) and we should have a place
for it.

I agree, but uk.rec.gardening is that place.

Good advice about growing veg is available here already. Discussion of
allotments goes on here already. Beans don't know whether they're in a
garden on on an allotment.

Peter

wrote:

I could also point out examples where I've been frustrated to see
answers given to a query regarding growing a veg, on this occasion a
'tip' on an allotment because seemingly nobody had a clear answer -
out of 8 posts 2 had valued comments, and those were from
allotmenteers whilst others simply said that they had no experience
but 'they had heard somewhere' ... and one post might have been
misleading because the poster tentatively tried to give an answer
without any knowledge.

Such is Ueenet. People have to make their own minds up about what
advice is worth listening to; you don't have to read a group very long
to get a pretty good idea.

I don't recognise the thread you're talking about, but IMHO the level of
advice available in here is pretty good.

A group for allotmenteers would be an absolut gem as it will avoid
confusion, will be straight from experience gardeners with a single
aim, growing food on allotments.

Where will all these posters come from? If they're in urg already, how
come they apparently aren't giving out better advice right now? If
they're allotmenteers and likely to use Usenet, how come they're not
posting in urg already?

Peter

wrote:

On 27 Jan, 19:12, David in Normandy wrote:

Should they post to URG or to the allotment group? They could always
cross-post I suppose, but those of us who have a news reader set to
block cross- posts would not see such posts at all then!

I thought that the new forum would be 'crossposted' or linked somehow
with urg. Will it?

No.

People could choose whether or not to crosspost. It wouldn't happen
automatically.

Perhaps I'm thinking of an ideal here - urg extending to encompass
allotments in some ways.

Doesn't it already?

Peter

"Hugh Jampton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:25:00 -0000, Bob Hobden wrote:

Don't like the idea, sorry. We can all use this Ng and learn from each
other.

Agreed 100%

uk.rec.gardening is no longer a busy newsgroup. Why complicate things by
making it even less busy by setting up another group ? There are already
quite a few dead UK newsgroups - lets not add another two :-(

URG is not the busiest NG right now, because it's seasonal. I haven't
checked out statistics, but I think they would show an increase over the
last week or two. And the pace always picks up as the growing season
commences and the newbies start wondering which end of the spade to use.
Football NGs are very busy right now, but F1 NGs are not, all for the same
reason.

Having said that, I supported the setting up of the allotments group a
couple of years ago, and I said then that "if the noes have it, I shan't
whine". They did, and I haven't. With the benefit of the intervening time,
this time round I shall be one of the noes.

Steve