Please see - http://users.eggconnect.net/xanadu/plants.html

On 23 Jan, 15:51, gargoyle47 wrote:
Please see -http://users.eggconnect.net/xanadu/plants.html

Hedera helix - ivy.
http://www.kbsbioshots.co.uk/plant05269.htm

In article afe85e5b-657f-4b91-96f7-
, says...
Please see - http://users.eggconnect.net/xanadu/plants.html

Hedera helix, the ordinary wild Ivy, the birds will eat the berries when
they start to go soft, Blackbirds mostly, then you have the joy of
pulling all the generously gifted seedlings as the blackbird's toilet
habits leave a lot to be desired!
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

In article ,
Charlie Pridham writes:
| In article afe85e5b-657f-4b91-96f7-
| , says...
| Please see - http://users.eggconnect.net/xanadu/plants.html
|
| Hedera helix, the ordinary wild Ivy, the birds will eat the berries when
| they start to go soft, Blackbirds mostly, then you have the joy of
| pulling all the generously gifted seedlings as the blackbird's toilet
| habits leave a lot to be desired!

However, whether the berries are poisonous to humans is less clear.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 23 Jan, 17:44, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
However, whether the berries are poisonous to humans is less clear.

I've never came across (and I've read extensively on wild foods from
agroforestry to 'free food') anyone eating ivy berries or suggesting
to eat them. As far as I know they are toxic and not to be eaten. Why
do you say it 'is less clear'. Do you think that it hasn't been proven
or there is still some uncertainty about it? Because if there is I'd
love to know - I've got enough, after the blackbirds, to still feed my
family all winter!

In article , writes:
| On 23 Jan, 17:44, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
| However, whether the berries are poisonous to humans is less clear.
|
| I've never came across (and I've read extensively on wild foods from
| agroforestry to 'free food') anyone eating ivy berries or suggesting
| to eat them. As far as I know they are toxic and not to be eaten. Why
| do you say it 'is less clear'. Do you think that it hasn't been proven
| or there is still some uncertainty about it? Because if there is I'd
| love to know - I've got enough, after the blackbirds, to still feed my
| family all winter!

I thought that my remark was quite clear! To paraphrase, I don't know.

To cut a long story short, there is good evidence that making a meal
of the berries might harm you (and Culpeper says just that), but
precious little detail beyond vague weebling about saponins. Given
that several of our common foods and spices are poisonous in
overdose, what do YOU think?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 23 Jan, 20:42, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
I thought that my remark was quite clear! *To paraphrase, I don't know.
To cut a long story short, there is good evidence that making a meal
of the berries might harm you (and Culpeper says just that), but
precious little detail beyond vague weebling about saponins. *Given
that several of our common foods and spices are poisonous in
overdose, what do YOU think?

Yes, like you I've heard that saponic glycoside is in the berries and
leaves and that its toxicity is rated 'Low'. Also the berries are
beleived to be more dangerous green than black. It's true that there's
very little about it. I had never noticed. All my books rate the
toxicity but don't give any potion/recipes making or interesting facts
about it. But beside this I never heard anything else nor did I read
anything about eating them when they are so available! I've heard that
Pliny did hangover cure with the leaves and one of my books by Lesley
Bremnes mentions that cosmetic products use hedera. Birds eating the
berries also don't taste as nice when eaten themselves - perhaps a bit
bitter? I think I'm going to look closer at it and will let you know.

I therefore would think that we shouldn't eat them. And I wouldn't try
- that is until I've found a bit more about it ;o)

In article ,
says...

In article , writes:
| On 23 Jan, 17:44, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
| However, whether the berries are poisonous to humans is less clear.
|
| I've never came across (and I've read extensively on wild foods from
| agroforestry to 'free food') anyone eating ivy berries or suggesting
| to eat them. As far as I know they are toxic and not to be eaten. Why
| do you say it 'is less clear'. Do you think that it hasn't been proven
| or there is still some uncertainty about it? Because if there is I'd
| love to know - I've got enough, after the blackbirds, to still feed my
| family all winter!

I thought that my remark was quite clear! To paraphrase, I don't know.

To cut a long story short, there is good evidence that making a meal
of the berries might harm you (and Culpeper says just that), but
precious little detail beyond vague weebling about saponins. Given
that several of our common foods and spices are poisonous in
overdose, what do YOU think?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I don't know, but are they like yew berries in that the most toxic bit is
the seed which passes through the birds gut while the flesh is edible?
(at least for blackbirds!) The birds certainly will not touch them until
they reach the over ripe stage and are starting to drop.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

In article ,
writes:
|
| ... I've heard that Pliny did hangover cure with the leaves ...

That's in Culpeper, too.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 23 Jan, 23:01, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
That's in Culpeper, too.

I don't have a Culpeper. I've ordered it for 89p. Bargain. I've looked
through the hedgerow and 'wild food' cookbooks I have, rather than
medicinal ones, and still hedera doesn't figure in it. The herbal book
from Deni Bown mentions it for it's medicinal values too, nothing new
there. Looks like it is a used plant for medicinal purposes but not
comestible. I won't put it in my crumble.

In article 899462a6-1c00-4374-bef5-
, says...
On 23 Jan, 23:01, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
That's in Culpeper, too.

I don't have a Culpeper. I've ordered it for 89p. Bargain. I've looked
through the hedgerow and 'wild food' cookbooks I have, rather than
medicinal ones, and still hedera doesn't figure in it. The herbal book
from Deni Bown mentions it for it's medicinal values too, nothing new
there. Looks like it is a used plant for medicinal purposes but not
comestible. I won't put it in my crumble.

Extract from Plants for future database, check web page for their sources
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Hedera+helix

The plant is said to be poisonous in large doses[7, 10, 65, 76] although
the leaves are eaten with impunity by various mammals without any
noticeable harmful affects. The leaves and fruits contain the saponic
glycoside hederagenin which, if ingested, can cause breathing
difficulties and coma[274]. The sap can cause dermatitis with blistering
and inflammation. This is apparently due to the presence of polyacetylene
compounds[274].
Although they are almost certainly not edible, there is a report that the
seeds contain 16.2% protein and 35.1% fat[218].
Ivy is a bitter aromatic herb with a nauseating taste[238]. It is often
used in folk herbal remedies[218], especially in the treatment of
rheumatism and as an external application to skin eruptions, swollen
tissue, painful joints, burns and suppurating cuts[9, 238]. Recent
research has shown that the leaves contain the compound 'emetine', which
is an amoebicidal alkaloid, and also triterpene saponins, which are
effective against liver flukes, molluscs, internal parasites and fungal
infections[238]. The leaves are antibacterial, antirheumatic, antiseptic,
antispasmodic, astringent, cathartic, diaphoretic, emetic, emmenagogue,
stimulant, sudorific, vasoconstrictor, vasodilator and vermifuge[7, 218,
238]. The plant is used internally in the treatment of gout, rheumatic
pain, whooping cough, bronchitis and as a parasiticide[238]. Some caution
is advised if it is being used internally since the plant is mildly
toxic[7]. Excessive doses destroy red blood cells and cause irritability,
diarrhoea and vomiting[238]. This plant should only be used under the
supervision of a qualified practitioner[238]. An infusion of the twigs in
oil is recommended for the treatment of sunburn[4]. The leaves are
harvested in spring and early summer, they are used fresh and can also be
dried[9].

I will stick to looking at them!
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

On 24 Jan, 13:02, Charlie Pridham wrote:
Extract from Plants for future database, check web page for their sourceshttp://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Hedera+helix
(snip)

I never think of looking in there. Thanks for the reminder because I'm
making a plant portofio (course work) and it is very thorough and is
an invaluable resource. Thanks.

I will stick to looking at them!

I'll join you!

Charlie Pridham wrote:
In article ,
says...

I don't know, but are they like yew berries in that the most toxic
bit is the seed which passes through the birds gut while the flesh is
edible? (at least for blackbirds!) The birds certainly will not touch
them until they reach the over ripe stage and are starting to drop.

And therein lies the problem.

Just what are we talking about when we state (often categorically) that "x"
is poisonous? Fruit? Seeds? Kernel?

How about being even more specific? Consider the ackee, where the unripe
aril is the poisonous part. So we could add a "when" to the equation, as
the ripe aril is presumably ok to eat.

There are some quite interesting observations on this page (referring to
plants fed to reptiles), which could be applied to most trials of a new
plant food
http://www.anapsid.org/resources/plants.html

Also, remember that rabbits can safely eat deadly nightshade, as they can
deal with the atropine. Humans can't. Although its berries don't taste bad
(better than woody nightshade, IMO), I wouldn't swallow even one of them.

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)