On 13/1/08 11:25, in article ,
"Eddy" wrote:

snip

Fascinating. My grandparents and uncle endured two years in the Channel
Islands under the Nazis, losing their farm and spending those two years
cooped in a rented room in town. They watched as the Germans closed
down the businesses of Jewish residents and rounded them up. And then
in 1942 Hitler ordered my grandparents and uncle, and all other
English-born residents, to be imprisoned in southern Germany. The toll
that those three years of "internment" took on my grandparents destroyed
them mentally. (And by the way, no compensation has ever been paid to
those particular prisoners, as it has to Japanese POWs for example, and,
also, there has never been any enquiry into the degree to which Channel
Island authorities collaborated with the Nazis for the five years of the
occupation. I believe that to this day certain papers have never been
declassified.)

There has long been controversy over the part the authorities played in this
but reading A Doctor's Occupation by Dr John Lewis seems to me to indicate
that everything was done that could be to prevent deportation. Of course,
we have to remember in modern times that nobody at that time knew the fate
of Jews under the Hitler regime.
My own family was expecting to be sent to an internment camp because all
they have a Jersey name, Le seelleur, my grandfather, grandmother, mother
and aunt were born in England. My father's family, the Valpys, were all
born in Jersey and my great-grandfather Le Seelleur and all preceding
generations were but the deportation of the English born was some sort of
reprisal for actions by the British in a war my family wasn't free to fight
in!
If you feel you'd like to Eddy, do email me and tell me about your family
and which island they were in - not Alderney, I hope! Remove the 'weeds'
from my address for email.


In our Parish magazine there was a short piece about young people in the sea
cadets collecting money during the Poppy Appeal in Totnes. Some equally
young drop out type came up to one young girl and told her she was
supporting 'murdering scum'. I do so wish I'd been there. I wonder if he
realises what would have happened to him if he'd said that to someone
collecting money for the Nazi party, from which fate he was saved by what
his ignorance describes as 'murdering scum'.

I think this one example you give, Sacha, states the situation
perfectly. That "young drop-out type" and thousands of other
non-drop-out types too would continue in the same attitude while lapping
up an extra public holiday.

Eddy.


Very probably but if we don't do *something*, it will all be consigned to
the dustbin of history that remains untaught. I am sure that not everybody
who takes Christmas Day as a holiday, goes to church but we still celebrate
Christmas.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 GMT, Eddy

wrote:

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

It was patriotism, nationalism, jingoism which led to the totally
unnecessary
deaths of millions in WW1.
--

Martin


Were you / Are you / Would you be a Conscientious Objector?

Kind regards

Mike


--
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly

On 13 Jan, 11:45, Eddy
wrote:
And, while our small number does what it can to
ensure the true story of the wars are not forgotten, many of the others
are so much more powerful than us. *

There's very little mention of Rwanda where 800,000 people were
massacred - Slovakia/Check genocides which was a direct result from
WW2 etc. I'd like these wars, these 21st century wars to be remembered
now, not in 40 years time. These are affecting the generation of my
kids today and would be very relevant to them, having to live in a
multicultural society where many from those devastated countries are
living amongst us.

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.


--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Burne-Jones/William Morris window in Shropshire church with conservation
churchyard:
http://www.whitton-stmarys.org.uk

On 13/1/08 14:19, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.

BUT didn't I read somewhere just recently that there is now talk of banning
such teaching because it is offensive to Muslims?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 13/1/08 14:41, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:29:25 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 13/1/08 14:19, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.

BUT didn't I read somewhere just recently that there is now talk of banning
such teaching because it is offensive to Muslims?

What one reads in the papers and reality are often very different.

In what way is the holocaust offensive to Muslims, other than that some of
them
are being treated as untermenschen by those who didn't learn from recent
history?

This is what The Times Online has to say:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1600686.ece

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In message , Sacha
writes
On 13/1/08 14:41, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:29:25 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 13/1/08 14:19, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.

BUT didn't I read somewhere just recently that there is now talk of banning
such teaching because it is offensive to Muslims?

What one reads in the papers and reality are often very different.

In what way is the holocaust offensive to Muslims, other than that some of
them
are being treated as untermenschen by those who didn't learn from recent
history?

This is what The Times Online has to say:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1600686.ece

You should note that what The Times Online has to say is not the same as
what you thought you'd read.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

"Martin" wrote in message
...


What one reads in the papers and reality are often very different.


Too true. The press reported that Cunard's Queen Victoria was rife with the
Norvirus Bug.

Wrong.

I was on Queen Victoria with all the Family for the Canaries Maiden over
Christmas and the New Year. We were laughing at the reports

Yes it was on board.

But rife? Never.

Mike



--
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:29:25 +0000, Sacha wrote
(in article ) :

On 13/1/08 14:19, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.

BUT didn't I read somewhere just recently that there is now talk of banning
such teaching because it is offensive to Muslims?



NO!! his is just one of the many web sites talking about this particular
urban myth:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/holocaust.asp

I had to look it up recently because of yet another email chain letter, this
time on this particular subject.

[Aside: why do people who would not dream of sending a snail mail chain
letter think it's OK when it's on email? And why do they never ever look
things up first to see if they are true? Rant over g]


--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
http://www.freerice.com/index.php
Give free rice to hungry people by playing a simple word game

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:49:19 +0000, Sacha wrote
(in article ) :

On 13/1/08 14:41, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:29:25 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 13/1/08 14:19, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you
don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.

BUT didn't I read somewhere just recently that there is now talk of banning
such teaching because it is offensive to Muslims?

What one reads in the papers and reality are often very different.

In what way is the holocaust offensive to Muslims, other than that some of
them
are being treated as untermenschen by those who didn't learn from recent
history?

This is what The Times Online has to say:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1600686.ece



And this is what the BBC has to say:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6563429.stm


--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Burne-Jones/William Morris window in Shropshire church with conservation
churchyard:
http://www.whitton-stmarys.org.uk

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:07:08 +0000, Martin wrote
(in article ):

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:49:19 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 13/1/08 14:41, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:29:25 +0000, Sacha

wrote:

On 13/1/08 14:19, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should
be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you
don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.

BUT didn't I read somewhere just recently that there is now talk of
banning
such teaching because it is offensive to Muslims?

What one reads in the papers and reality are often very different.

In what way is the holocaust offensive to Muslims, other than that some of
them
are being treated as untermenschen by those who didn't learn from recent
history?

This is what The Times Online has to say:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1600686.ece

The Guardian version goes into more detail
http://www.guardian.co.uk/secondworl...048082,00.html

In addition to the links I have already posted, this is what the Jewish
Council for Public Affairs says, and I think I would trust them over any
newspaper:

http://tools.isovera.com/organizatio...em&orgid=5 4&
typeID=88&itemID=20479

--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
http://www.freerice.com/index.php
Give free rice to hungry people by playing a simple word game

On 13/1/08 15:04, in article lid, "Stewart Robert
Hinsley" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
On 13/1/08 14:41, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:29:25 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 13/1/08 14:19, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you
don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.

BUT didn't I read somewhere just recently that there is now talk of banning
such teaching because it is offensive to Muslims?

What one reads in the papers and reality are often very different.

In what way is the holocaust offensive to Muslims, other than that some of
them
are being treated as untermenschen by those who didn't learn from recent
history?

This is what The Times Online has to say:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1600686.ece

You should note that what The Times Online has to say is not the same as
what you thought you'd read.

I know. That's the online reference I found but I don't remember where I
read the reference to such teaching being offensive to Muslims. As you see
from a reply, that ref. has been taken that way, though.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 13/1/08 15:24, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:49:19 +0000, Sacha wrote
(in article ) :

On 13/1/08 14:41, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:29:25 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 13/1/08 14:19, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you
don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.

BUT didn't I read somewhere just recently that there is now talk of banning
such teaching because it is offensive to Muslims?

What one reads in the papers and reality are often very different.

In what way is the holocaust offensive to Muslims, other than that some of
them
are being treated as untermenschen by those who didn't learn from recent
history?

This is what The Times Online has to say:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1600686.ece



And this is what the BBC has to say:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6563429.stm

Thanks, Sally. I'm glad to read that teaching about the Holocaust is to be
compulsory. IMO religion should have nothing to do with teaching about
wickedness and the consequences of moral inertia.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| I know. That's the online reference I found but I don't remember where I
| read the reference to such teaching being offensive to Muslims. As you see
| from a reply, that ref. has been taken that way, though.

The Email is malicious propaganda, designed to encourage hatred, no better
than The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion in terms of morality.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:54:37 +0000, Sacha wrote
(in article ) :

On 13/1/08 15:24, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:49:19 +0000, Sacha wrote
(in article ) :

On 13/1/08 14:41, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:29:25 +0000, Sacha

wrote:

On 13/1/08 14:19, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:59:24 +0000, Eddy wrote
(in article ):

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I have difficulty understanding why
1) being about to teach about the world wars and the Holocaust should
be
so noteworthy as to be worthy of being declared in the staff room.
2) why doing so should be the occasion of being the recipient of black
looks.

It's because "anything to do with guns and war and killing" is simply
wrong, Stewart! Guns, and war, and killing is thought to equate to
patriotism, nationalism, jingoism - and these things too equate to each
other and are also thought to be just as wrong!

I believe the attitude stems from fashion, ignorance, fear, and
irresponsibility.

Eddy.


I should point out that as I understand it (check with the BBC if you
don't
believe me) in England, teaching children about the Holocaust is
_/compulsory/, and it is not banned elsewhere in the UK.

BUT didn't I read somewhere just recently that there is now talk of
banning
such teaching because it is offensive to Muslims?

What one reads in the papers and reality are often very different.

In what way is the holocaust offensive to Muslims, other than that some of
them
are being treated as untermenschen by those who didn't learn from recent
history?

This is what The Times Online has to say:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1600686.ece

And this is what the BBC has to say:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6563429.stm

Thanks, Sally. I'm glad to read that teaching about the Holocaust is to be
compulsory. IMO religion should have nothing to do with teaching about
wickedness and the consequences of moral inertia.

I read it as already being compulsory. Sorry if I came on a bit strong, but
I was so fed up with getting this round-robin email, which has apparently
being going around since last April. When we wrote back that it was untrue,
the recipient went into high dudgeon and practically accused us of being
anti-semitic. Sigh.



--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Burne-Jones/William Morris window in Shropshire church with conservation
churchyard:
http://www.whitton-stmarys.org.uk