In article ,
says...
Sacha wrote:

[...snip...]
It's like dowsing - those who can't do it scoff at it, those of
us who can know just what it feels like and know that it is not 'in the
imagination'. People have employed dowsers and plant remedies for centuries
because they work. That is NOT to say that I think they should replace
alopathic medicine when it's necessary. That IS a dangerous attitude, IMO.

Oh here we go again ... Sacha, if you really think dowsing works and
you can surely prove it works because, ahem, "it works", I can
help you to a nice cool $1,000,000 (I know the dollar is not worth what
it used to be worth, but I bet even you'd appreciate the extra few
pennies :-).

And the little dig at "allopathic medicine" ... *Sigh*.

Let me know when you're ready to undergo the dowsing test. I'll split
the winnings with you - $999,999 to you and $1 to me. Sounds fair ?

In the hard world of small businesses its hard to see why water bore hole
companies would keep dowsers on their books if there was nothing in it,
and down here they all do, whether it also works with all the other
things claimed for it I do not know, but if you want to try a method to
prove it, 2 plastic Biro tubes, each with a bit of metal coat hanger in
that has been bent to 90 degrees, hold one in each hand tuck you elbows
in tight and walk slowly, we did this in physics at school and out of 30
of us only one did not get a reaction to the water in one of 10 sealed
containers, its difficult to see how you could make the wires spin
yourself. thats good enough for me. Whoever is offering the money is
quite safe because neither I nor my then physics teacher could explain
why it happens
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

Sacha wrote:

Let me know when you're ready to undergo the dowsing test. I'll split
the winnings with you - $999,999 to you and $1 to me. Sounds fair ?

I've already told you what I think about this. I think such things are a
form of gift and I don't think playing with them to 'win' *anything* is
right. I know dowsing works because I've felt the rod move. I've met
dowsers who have found water and metal and those for whom they have found
it. Some charge for their services, many don't because, like me, they see
it as a gift. You haven't, so you don't believe it. I really can't imagine
why it fusses you so much, to be honest.

Sigh. The same old story - "I don't want the $1,000,000 because blah,
blah, blah".

Question: have you even heard of the ideomotor effect ?

See, for example:

http://randi.org/encyclopedia/ideomotor%20effect.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_Effect

What is it about you that takes away your curiosity for the
way things work (or don't work) ? I really can't imagine
why it doesn't fuss you at all, to be honest.

Charlie Pridham wrote:

Let me know when you're ready to undergo the dowsing test. I'll split
the winnings with you - $999,999 to you and $1 to me. Sounds fair ?

In the hard world of small businesses its hard to see why water bore hole
companies would keep dowsers on their books if there was nothing in it,
and down here they all do, whether it also works with all the other
things claimed for it I do not know, but if you want to try a method to
prove it, 2 plastic Biro tubes, each with a bit of metal coat hanger in
that has been bent to 90 degrees, hold one in each hand tuck you elbows
in tight and walk slowly, we did this in physics at school and out of 30
of us only one did not get a reaction to the water in one of 10 sealed
containers, its difficult to see how you could make the wires spin
yourself. thats good enough for me. Whoever is offering the money is
quite safe because neither I nor my then physics teacher could explain
why it happens.

Excellent! There's no need to explain why it happens. You just
need to successfully pass a very simple test; no need for any
simple or complicated explanations.

So, Charlie, tell me when you're ready for the test. Since my
fees are going up with each new applicant, I'll split the winnings
with you - $999,998 to you and $2 to me. Unless Sacha beats you
to the cool million ... quick, time's running out.

On 30/11/07 15:45, in article
, "Charlie Pridham"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Sacha wrote:

[...snip...]
It's like dowsing - those who can't do it scoff at it, those of
us who can know just what it feels like and know that it is not 'in the
imagination'. People have employed dowsers and plant remedies for centuries
because they work. That is NOT to say that I think they should replace
alopathic medicine when it's necessary. That IS a dangerous attitude, IMO.

Oh here we go again ... Sacha, if you really think dowsing works and
you can surely prove it works because, ahem, "it works", I can
help you to a nice cool $1,000,000 (I know the dollar is not worth what
it used to be worth, but I bet even you'd appreciate the extra few
pennies :-).

And the little dig at "allopathic medicine" ... *Sigh*.

Let me know when you're ready to undergo the dowsing test. I'll split
the winnings with you - $999,999 to you and $1 to me. Sounds fair ?

In the hard world of small businesses its hard to see why water bore hole
companies would keep dowsers on their books if there was nothing in it,
and down here they all do, whether it also works with all the other
things claimed for it I do not know, but if you want to try a method to
prove it, 2 plastic Biro tubes, each with a bit of metal coat hanger in
that has been bent to 90 degrees, hold one in each hand tuck you elbows
in tight and walk slowly, we did this in physics at school and out of 30
of us only one did not get a reaction to the water in one of 10 sealed
containers, its difficult to see how you could make the wires spin
yourself. thats good enough for me. Whoever is offering the money is
quite safe because neither I nor my then physics teacher could explain
why it happens

I am genuinely astonished when people say they don't believe in dowsing if
only because it's been so 'natural' a part of my life years before I knew I
could do it, though I've never used it properly. As to explanations, I
don't think anyone has ever attempted one. Ray can't do it but if we join
hands in the middle and he holds one side of the rod and I hold the other,
then he feels it move. Two of my children can do it, one can't.
Because the mains water system in the Channel Islands isn't that extensive -
some parts of the islands still are on wells or boreholes - I've known
people who dowse for water all my life, so it's nothing strange or unusual,
IMO. I daresay that in some years time, there will be an explanation, just
as we now understand the moon and the tides, the ripening effects of the sun
etc. ;-)
I have known several people who do hands on healing, too, including myself
and I'm darned if I know how that works but perhaps we better not go
there.... ;-)) In the meantime, this site is quite an interesting article
on the subject from a cynic who learned better. ;-)
http://www.turningthesolomonkey.com/?s=dowsing
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 30/11/07 15:57, in article ,
"R.A.Omond" wrote:

Charlie Pridham wrote:

Let me know when you're ready to undergo the dowsing test. I'll split
the winnings with you - $999,999 to you and $1 to me. Sounds fair ?

In the hard world of small businesses its hard to see why water bore hole
companies would keep dowsers on their books if there was nothing in it,
and down here they all do, whether it also works with all the other
things claimed for it I do not know, but if you want to try a method to
prove it, 2 plastic Biro tubes, each with a bit of metal coat hanger in
that has been bent to 90 degrees, hold one in each hand tuck you elbows
in tight and walk slowly, we did this in physics at school and out of 30
of us only one did not get a reaction to the water in one of 10 sealed
containers, its difficult to see how you could make the wires spin
yourself. thats good enough for me. Whoever is offering the money is
quite safe because neither I nor my then physics teacher could explain
why it happens.

Excellent! There's no need to explain why it happens. You just
need to successfully pass a very simple test; no need for any
simple or complicated explanations.

So, Charlie, tell me when you're ready for the test. Since my
fees are going up with each new applicant, I'll split the winnings
with you - $999,998 to you and $2 to me. Unless Sacha beats you
to the cool million ... quick, time's running out.

It really does bother you that people can do something you can't and
therefore don't believe in? I do find that very strange.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Sacha wrote:

It really does bother you that people can do something you can't and
therefore don't believe in? I do find that very strange.

Nope, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Every single person
on the planet can do "something" I can't.

Ready for the test? $999,999 to you and $1 to me ... quick before
Charlie beats you to it.

P.s. do you now know what the ideomotor effect is?

"R.A.Omond" wrote in message
...
Sacha wrote:

It really does bother you that people can do something you can't and
therefore don't believe in? I do find that very strange.

Nope, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Every single person
on the planet can do "something" I can't.

Ready for the test? $999,999 to you and $1 to me ... quick before
Charlie beats you to it.

P.s. do you now know what the ideomotor effect is?


I think you might appreciate the book I recommended, "Psycho-cybernetics by
Maltz" and you would then understand people :-))

If you know what I mean ;-))

Kind regards

Mike


--
www.rnshipmates.co.uk for ALL Royal Navy Association matters
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly
"Navy Days" Portsmouth 25th - 27th July 2008. RN Shipmates will be there.

On 30/11/07 16:19, in article ,
"R.A.Omond" wrote:

Sacha wrote:

It really does bother you that people can do something you can't and
therefore don't believe in? I do find that very strange.

Nope, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Every single person
on the planet can do "something" I can't.

Ready for the test? $999,999 to you and $1 to me ... quick before
Charlie beats you to it.

P.s. do you now know what the ideomotor effect is?

Yes, I do. You are not going to persuade me that a couple of pieces of
metal, wood or plastic do, though. I know what happens in dowsing because
I've experienced it using various types of materials. You haven't, so I'm
afraid all you're doing is persuading me that for some reason you're really
worried about things you don't understand and can't do yourself. They're
not compulsory, you know. Don't worry about it - those of us who can will
do it and those who don't want to, don't have to!


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
says...
Charlie Pridham wrote:

Let me know when you're ready to undergo the dowsing test. I'll split
the winnings with you - $999,999 to you and $1 to me. Sounds fair ?

In the hard world of small businesses its hard to see why water bore hole
companies would keep dowsers on their books if there was nothing in it,
and down here they all do, whether it also works with all the other
things claimed for it I do not know, but if you want to try a method to
prove it, 2 plastic Biro tubes, each with a bit of metal coat hanger in
that has been bent to 90 degrees, hold one in each hand tuck you elbows
in tight and walk slowly, we did this in physics at school and out of 30
of us only one did not get a reaction to the water in one of 10 sealed
containers, its difficult to see how you could make the wires spin
yourself. thats good enough for me. Whoever is offering the money is
quite safe because neither I nor my then physics teacher could explain
why it happens.

Excellent! There's no need to explain why it happens. You just
need to successfully pass a very simple test; no need for any
simple or complicated explanations.

So, Charlie, tell me when you're ready for the test. Since my
fees are going up with each new applicant, I'll split the winnings
with you - $999,998 to you and $2 to me. Unless Sacha beats you
to the cool million ... quick, time's running out.

So you can explain gravity?
Not everthing in science can be explained, I do not need to do it again,
I am satisfied it works, I was suggestion YOU have a go, if nothing
happens you can carry on being sceptical until then I win.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

Sacha wrote:

P.s. do you now know what the ideomotor effect is?

Yes, I do. You are not going to persuade me that a couple of pieces of
metal, wood or plastic do, though.

Sadly, that shows that you do not know what the ideomotor effect is.

I know what happens in dowsing because
I've experienced it using various types of materials. You haven't, so I'm
afraid all you're doing is persuading me that for some reason you're really
worried about things you don't understand and can't do yourself. They're
not compulsory, you know. Don't worry about it - those of us who can will
do it and those who don't want to, don't have to!

Ready for the test then Sacha? $999,999 to you and $1 to me.
That sounds fair to me ... let me know when you're ready.

"R.A.Omond" wrote in message
...
Sacha wrote:

P.s. do you now know what the ideomotor effect is?

Yes, I do. You are not going to persuade me that a couple of pieces of
metal, wood or plastic do, though.

Sadly, that shows that you do not know what the ideomotor effect is.

I know what happens in dowsing because
I've experienced it using various types of materials. You haven't, so I'm
afraid all you're doing is persuading me that for some reason you're
really
worried about things you don't understand and can't do yourself. They're
not compulsory, you know. Don't worry about it - those of us who can
will
do it and those who don't want to, don't have to!

Ready for the test then Sacha? $999,999 to you and $1 to me.
That sounds fair to me ... let me know when you're ready.



:-))



--
www.rnshipmates.co.uk for ALL Royal Navy Association matters
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly
"Navy Days" Portsmouth 25th - 27th July 2008. RN Shipmates will be there.

On 30/11/07 16:44, in article ,
"R.A.Omond" wrote:

Sacha wrote:

P.s. do you now know what the ideomotor effect is?

Yes, I do. You are not going to persuade me that a couple of pieces of
metal, wood or plastic do, though.

Sadly, that shows that you do not know what the ideomotor effect is.

Yes, I do. And I know what I am doing when I dowse and I have had other
people closely observe me doing it. More to the point, your beloved
ideomotor effect does not explain why drilling companies employ dowsers to
such good effect and why some who drill for water are, themselves, dowsers.
I've watched them at work. My former fil, who was not a fool and didn't
throw money away, used one such person several times and always with
success. He used him to dowse for water for boreholes and for breakages in
pipes. I've known a dowser find lost jewellery for someone - twice to my
personal knowledge, using only a floor plan - and the same dowser found a
water leak in a four storey hotel, again using only a floor plan. He and
his wife were given dinner by the grateful manager.

I know what happens in dowsing because
I've experienced it using various types of materials. You haven't, so I'm
afraid all you're doing is persuading me that for some reason you're really
worried about things you don't understand and can't do yourself. They're
not compulsory, you know. Don't worry about it - those of us who can will
do it and those who don't want to, don't have to!

Ready for the test then Sacha? $999,999 to you and $1 to me.
That sounds fair to me ... let me know when you're ready.

As I have told you, I would not do such a thing. And I mean that very
sincerely. I think it would be wrong and I think it's cheap tomfoolery.
However, I can only advise that you do what Charlie suggests for yourself -
try it with someone who can dowse and see what happens to you. Do the
hand-holding thing with someone who *can* dowse.
I've seen utter sceptics totally bewildered and it's really quite amusing to
watch in a benign sort of way. But truly, Roy, it doesn't matter. People
were ignorant about the sun, moon and earth and their relation to each other
at one time, after all.
I know what happens to me, you don't know what happens to YOU and are
apparently not interested in finding out. Or perhaps you've tried and
nothing happens to you, so you've somehow persuaded yourself that all who
can dowse are liars or charlatans or deluded fools and this makes you more
knowledgeable than people who have dowsed through the centuries and continue
to do so now. Forgive me but: "whatever floats your boat". ;-)

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article , Martin
writes

I can go straight back to when we first were married and living in Army
quarters if I smell Dettol as the girl across the way used to
disinfectant the stairs once a week with a powerful agent of some type
or other but one sniff now and I'm there in 1970

I have a similar but more pleasant problem caused by the smell of Bavarian beer
:-)

Oh it isn't an unhappy memory, we were very happy there
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Charlie
Pridham writes

Whoever is offering the money is
quite safe because neither I nor my then physics teacher could explain
why it happens


I don't personally know how my car engine works nor the electrical
system but I would still use it to go to Waitrose
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Sacha
writes

A member of our family has just completed the
post-graduate Tisserand course and is going on to do further training. It's
a meticulously careful training and it benefits a great number of people.
But it's not compulsory, so I never do understand why people get in such a
state about it!


On a slightly different tack but using lavender oil as a link to
gardening. I was very disappointed to see that Tisserands pure oil for
the bath STILL has Sodium lauryl/laurel sulphate in it's ingredients.
That's the one thing, sometimes called SLS that irritates my skin making
it feel like sunburn (it's an ingredient for cleaning garage floors of
oil)
Shame as I love lavender oil, so I use dried lavender instead but the
bits floating around the bath aren't actually calming
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk