While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably horrible
thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that it
ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch and twig.
I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security firm's dream
plant. Does anyone know what it might be?
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
Steve Wolstenholme writes:
| On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:56:47 +0100, Sacha
| wrote:
|
| While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably horrible
| thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that it
| ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
| great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch and twig.
| I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security firm's dream
| plant. Does anyone know what it might be?
|
| Prunus americanum ?

Hooked thorns on the stem? I have never heard of a Prunus like that,
but don't know that plant.

The description rings a bell but, if I recall, it is a primarily
sub-tropical genus. Again, if I recall, it isn't all that fast
growing in most of the UK and tends to be an open tree rather than
forming a thick shrub.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
Steve Wolstenholme writes:
| On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:56:47 +0100, Sacha
| wrote:
|
| While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably horrible
| thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that it
| ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
| great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch
| and twig.
| I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security
| firm's dream
| plant. Does anyone know what it might be?
|
| Prunus americanum ?

Hooked thorns on the stem? I have never heard of a Prunus like that,
but don't know that plant.

"The plant’s numerous stems are grayish and become scaly with age; its
branches are more or less spiny with sharp-tipped twigs." (Sounds rather
like a blackthorn, but I have the impression that the American plum is a
larger plant.)

The description rings a bell but, if I recall, it is a primarily
sub-tropical genus. Again, if I recall, it isn't all that fast
growing in most of the UK and tends to be an open tree rather than
forming a thick shrub.


The first thing that comes to mind as American and viciously thorny is
the honey-locust, Gleditsia triacanthos. A Google search gives two
references to Gleditsia americana, one in Ecology 12(2): 259-298 (1931),
but IPNI doesn't mention that name. Nor do the spines match the
description.

The description might be that of Colletia armata.




Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:56:47 +0100
Sacha wrote:

While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably horrible
thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that it
ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch and twig.
I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security firm's dream
plant. Does anyone know what it might be?

Hi Sacha,

Kalopanax? What were the leaves like?

cheers,

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

On 16/10/07 09:54, in article ,
"Emery Davis" wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:56:47 +0100
Sacha wrote:

While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably horrible
thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that it
ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch and twig.
I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security firm's dream
plant. Does anyone know what it might be?

Hi Sacha,

Kalopanax? What were the leaves like?

Kalopanax looks very much like it, though there weren't many leaves to be
seen. I think you've got it, thank you. I thought it ended in 'americana'
but I was trying to remember several things and kick myself now for not
having my usual notebook with me. It was quite a mature specimen and must
have been there several years. Where does it originate, do you know?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 16/10/07 09:52, in article lid, "Stewart
Robert Hinsley" wrote:

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
Steve Wolstenholme writes:
| On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:56:47 +0100, Sacha
| wrote:
|
| While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably
horrible
| thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that
it
| ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
| great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch
| and twig.
| I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security
| firm's dream
| plant. Does anyone know what it might be?
|
| Prunus americanum ?

Hooked thorns on the stem? I have never heard of a Prunus like that,
but don't know that plant.

"The plant¹s numerous stems are grayish and become scaly with age; its
branches are more or less spiny with sharp-tipped twigs." (Sounds rather
like a blackthorn, but I have the impression that the American plum is a
larger plant.)

The description rings a bell but, if I recall, it is a primarily
sub-tropical genus. Again, if I recall, it isn't all that fast
growing in most of the UK and tends to be an open tree rather than
forming a thick shrub.


The first thing that comes to mind as American and viciously thorny is
the honey-locust, Gleditsia triacanthos. A Google search gives two
references to Gleditsia americana, one in Ecology 12(2): 259-298 (1931),
but IPNI doesn't mention that name. Nor do the spines match the
description.

The description might be that of Colletia armata.


There was a Colletia armata rosea but it's not that. And I know Gleditsia
triacanthos and it's not that. ;-) Nor is it a Prunus - the thorns aren't
spiked, they're hooked, rather as those on a very over-sized rose would be.
They were all up the trunk and all along each branch.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In message , Sacha
writes
On 16/10/07 09:54, in article ,
"Emery Davis" wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:56:47 +0100
Sacha wrote:

While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably horrible
thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that it
ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch and twig.
I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security firm's dream
plant. Does anyone know what it might be?

Hi Sacha,

Kalopanax? What were the leaves like?

Kalopanax looks very much like it, though there weren't many leaves to be
seen. I think you've got it, thank you. I thought it ended in 'americana'
but I was trying to remember several things and kick myself now for not
having my usual notebook with me. It was quite a mature specimen and must
have been there several years. Where does it originate, do you know?

From Wikipedia "Kalopanax septemlobus, common name Kalopanax or Prickly
Castor-oil Tree, is a deciduous tree in the family Araliaceae, the sole
species in the genus Kalopanax. It is native to northeastern Asia, from
Sakhalin and Japan west to southwestern China."
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes:
|
| From Wikipedia "Kalopanax septemlobus, common name Kalopanax or Prickly
| Castor-oil Tree, is a deciduous tree in the family Araliaceae, the sole
| species in the genus Kalopanax. It is native to northeastern Asia, from
| Sakhalin and Japan west to southwestern China."

That reminded me, and the one I was thinking of is Aralia spinosa.
I don't think that either are right, because I think that both have
straight thorns, but my betting would be on one of the Araliaceae.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 16/10/07 12:08, in article lid, "Stewart
Robert Hinsley" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
On 16/10/07 09:54, in article ,
"Emery Davis" wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:56:47 +0100
Sacha wrote:

While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably horrible
thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that it
ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch and
twig.
I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security firm's
dream
plant. Does anyone know what it might be?

Hi Sacha,

Kalopanax? What were the leaves like?

Kalopanax looks very much like it, though there weren't many leaves to be
seen. I think you've got it, thank you. I thought it ended in 'americana'
but I was trying to remember several things and kick myself now for not
having my usual notebook with me. It was quite a mature specimen and must
have been there several years. Where does it originate, do you know?

From Wikipedia "Kalopanax septemlobus, common name Kalopanax or Prickly
Castor-oil Tree, is a deciduous tree in the family Araliaceae, the sole
species in the genus Kalopanax. It is native to northeastern Asia, from
Sakhalin and Japan west to southwestern China."

Thanks, Stewart. And in reply to Nick, too, we have Aralia spinosa in the
garden here - horrible thing, I hate it - and it doesn't ring any bells at
all with regard to this particular tree. I think I'll have to ring Marwood
Hill, though the Kalopanax does seem right.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes:
|
| From Wikipedia "Kalopanax septemlobus, common name Kalopanax or Prickly
| Castor-oil Tree, is a deciduous tree in the family Araliaceae, the sole
| species in the genus Kalopanax. It is native to northeastern Asia, from
| Sakhalin and Japan west to southwestern China."

That reminded me, and the one I was thinking of is Aralia spinosa.
I don't think that either are right, because I think that both have
straight thorns, but my betting would be on one of the Araliaceae.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Checking IPNI for araliads with americana/us/um as the epithet gives
Panax americanus (=Panax quinquefolia), which is herbaceous, Reynoldsia
americana, which is tropical, and Ricinophyllum americanus (=Oplopanax
horridus) which is viciously spined, but perhaps not with the right type
of spines.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 16/10/07 15:22, in article ,
"Steve Wolstenholme" wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:00:36 +0100, Sacha
wrote:


Kalopanax looks very much like it, though there weren't many leaves to be
seen. I think you've got it, thank you. I thought it ended in 'americana'
but I was trying to remember several things and kick myself now for not
having my usual notebook with me. It was quite a mature specimen and must
have been there several years. Where does it originate, do you know?

Something about the name Kalopanax rang a bell. My wife thinks the
dried bark was in a Chinese mix that once lived in one of our kitchen
cupboards. It was to cure constipation.

Steve

Replying to you all, I should think this thing would cure anything, if only
by fear! And the 'americanus', 'americana' tag is still lodged in my mind
but I could be really mistaken. I've emailed Malcolm Pharoah, who is the
Curator there and asked him if he can ID it for us. It's a lesson to me to
take photos and to carry a notebook always - and not to clear out my bag so
assiduously, either! In my own defence, I will say that we hadn't made any
particular plans for the day and as my bag is already called the Black Hole
of Calcutta or The Tardis by Ray, I can only say it's bad for my back and
neck to cram even more into it!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably
horrible
thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that
it
ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch and
twig.
I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security firm's
dream
plant. Does anyone know what it might be?


Agave americana has thorns but it's not a tree.

On 16/10/07 18:07, in article , "CWatters"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
While at Marwood Hill today, we saw a small tree with unbelievably
horrible
thorns! All I remember of the name (I had nothing to write on) was that
it
ended in Americana. The thorns were shaped like hooked rose thorns but a
great deal larger and were all up the trunk and along every branch and
twig.
I've never seen such a brute but I should think it's a security firm's
dream
plant. Does anyone know what it might be?


Agave americana has thorns but it's not a tree.


No, that's not it - I know that one. I think that Kalopanax is probably it
but if the Curator of the garden answers me I'll be able to give a certain
ID. Thanks, Colin.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'