On 16/10/07 14:58, in article ,
"p.k." wrote:

Sacha wrote:

I cannot see anything speculative in: "They were bought with the
root ball wrapped in hessian, which I planted intact as I'd heard
that hollies don't like their roots being disturbed."

snip

but the removal of Hessian wrapping is not so clear cut as you suggest :
See http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile...ootwrapped.asp

pk


Most of that site seems to me to indicate that leaving things wrapped in
hessian, or not at least, cutting holes in the hessian is begging for
trouble. I think the suppliers who are talking about not removing the
hessian are probably - probably - people who supply mature trees at huge
expense, e.g. Piante Innocenti. I don't think the OP indicates his or her
hollies are of that size and maturity.
But I think the OP can do no harm by looking at the roots of one the hollies
and seeing whether they've broken through the hessian to make a strong,
healthy, well established root system, or whether they're struggling in that
respect.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:53:35 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote and included this (or some of this):

I've never done this Janet, so I asked Ray. He says start them in the pots
selecting plants with strong leaders and stems. I'm assuming you want to
keep them potted?

Yes I would like them potted it was just that I thought from your other
email that they might get to the desired height quicker if I put them in
the soil for a couple of years!

9 years ago I had a lovely variegated holly standard, 7' tall with a
3' ball on top.
I had to move it as we were building a conservatory.
Got out as much roots as possible (not very much) and dragged it to a
new location.

It sulked for nearly 4 years, lost most of its leaves, and then
decided, bugger it, I'm going to live, and it did. Now it's really
thriving.


--
®óñ© © ²°¹°-°³

On 18/10/07 15:36, in article ,
"®óñ© © ²°¹°-°³" wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:53:35 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote and included this (or some of this):

I've never done this Janet, so I asked Ray. He says start them in the pots
selecting plants with strong leaders and stems. I'm assuming you want to
keep them potted?

Yes I would like them potted it was just that I thought from your other
email that they might get to the desired height quicker if I put them in
the soil for a couple of years!

9 years ago I had a lovely variegated holly standard, 7' tall with a
3' ball on top.
I had to move it as we were building a conservatory.
Got out as much roots as possible (not very much) and dragged it to a
new location.

It sulked for nearly 4 years, lost most of its leaves, and then
decided, bugger it, I'm going to live, and it did. Now it's really
thriving.

So it's a sort of 'might work, might not' situation, I think. If Janet
wants several and fairly quickly she *might* be taking a bit of a risk, as
well as having to wait 4 years. ;-)

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article , ®óñ© © ²°¹°-°³
writes

It sulked for nearly 4 years, lost most of its leaves, and then
decided, bugger it, I'm going to live, and it did. Now it's really
thriving.





Well that's a relief. My 5 hollies are particularly nice variegated
specimens but still small, they will look really nice once bigger so I
think I might put 2 into very large pots and wait. They've been really
slow up till now
Won't bother with the ferox as I like the prickles at ground level to
stop next doors cat coming through a gap in my hedge
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Hi folks,
Thanks for all your comments - sorry I haven't been around (due to a bereavement) to set the record straight sooner.

I mentioned two hollies in my original post. The main one I am concerned about is the Ilex meserveae Blue Princess. This was purchased from a local wholesaler and had its roots wrapped up in a piece of hessian, which he instructed me to plant intact, saying that hollies don't like their roots disturbed and that they would grow through the hessian. I told him that I wouldn't be planting the holly right away, so he wrapped it in another piece of hessian, to keep it from drying out. When it came to planting it a few weeks later, I removed the outer piece of hessian, but planted it with the original hessian still intact. Some new roots had already started to appear through the cloth even in this short time, but I don't think they got damaged in the planting process as they were only starting to peep through. The holly is about four feet high - I don't know how old it would be, but I would imagine that it's fairly young (it's not one of those expensive mature samples you can buy). There are about half a dozen vertical branches with not many side branches. It has lost most of its lower leaves to about halfway up each branch. It is planted in front of a three foot (fairly solid) fence in a raised bed facing south west, so it gets plenty of sun. There is a good depth of loamy topsoil on top of a clay base and would be fairly well draining because of the raised nature of the bed, but we did have an awful lot of rain this summer here in Northern Ireland! The bed is covered with the weed membrane and a layer of bark chips.

What I would really like to know is, even if the hessian is the problem and I remove it, will the holly grow new leaves where it has lost them or will I end up with a leggy specimen?

The other holly I mentioned is an Ilex aquifolium J. C. van Tol, which probably has more berries than leaves! It came from the same source but was pot grown (no hessian involved this time - sorry for any confusion in the first post). It has one main leading branch about four feet tall with a few short horizontal branches. It was planted in the lawn, south westerly aspect and four foot fence behind it. Although it has not lost leaves to the extent that the Blue Princess has done, it still looks very spindly and has not done anything all summer in terms of new growth, although the berries are very nice!

BlueFlower writes
It is planted in front of a three foot (fairly
solid) fence in a raised bed facing south west, so it gets plenty of
sun.

Getting plenty of sun isn't high up in the list of the holly's
priorities. They tend to grow in light woodland.

I'm not sure how happy they are in a raised bed on free draining soil.
--
Kay

I was out today planting some bulbs near the Blue Princess and the soil has not dried out, even though we haven't had much rain over the last few weeks. The membrane and bark chips seem pretty good at keeping the moisture locked in. If anything, it's more likely the bed had too much moisture this summer than not enough, and if the others who replied to this post are correct, the hessian will not have helped.

As far as sunshine levels are concerned, from what I have read hollies are OK with sunshine, but many varieties can tolerate shady conditions.

On 20/10/07 19:06, in article ,
"BlueFlower" wrote:


K;755203 Wrote:
BlueFlower writes
It is planted in front of a three foot (fairly
solid) fence in a raised bed facing south west, so it gets plenty of
sun.

Getting plenty of sun isn't high up in the list of the holly's
priorities. They tend to grow in light woodland.

I'm not sure how happy they are in a raised bed on free draining soil.
--
Kay

I was out today planting some bulbs near the Blue Princess and the soil
has not dried out, even though we haven't had much rain over the last
few weeks. The membrane and bark chips seem pretty good at keeping the
moisture locked in. If anything, it's more likely the bed had too much
moisture this summer than not enough, and if the others who replied to
this post are correct, the hessian will not have helped.

As far as sunshine levels are concerned, from what I have read hollies
are OK with sunshine, but many varieties can tolerate shady conditions.

So, your holly is planted in hessian sacking, under membrane and bark
chippings (in themselves deleterious to plants as they rot down) and you are
posting via Garden Banter asking advice from urg but saying "from what I've
read". Why do I get the whiff of a wind up here?
Let us know if they live or die, please and how you brought either about.
It would be most interesting to hear the final outcome.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Sacha, I am sorry you have taken what I said like this. My post to urg really was a genuine question from someone who is interested enough to read up on a project so as to make a success of it but not enough experience to get it all right.

On 21/10/07 12:14, in article ,
"BlueFlower" wrote:


Sacha;755343 Wrote:

So, your holly is planted in hessian sacking, under membrane and bark
chippings (in themselves deleterious to plants as they rot down) and
you are
posting via Garden Banter asking advice from urg but saying "from what
I've
read". Why do I get the whiff of a wind up here?
Let us know if they live or die, please and how you brought either
about.
It would be most interesting to hear the final outcome.


Sacha, I am sorry you have taken what I said like this. My post to urg
really was a genuine question from someone who is interested enough to
read up on a project so as to make a success of it but not enough
experience to get it all right.

And I was a bit tongue in cheek! Should have put a smiley in, obviously.
But there seem to be many variables being added to this poor plant's
troubles. I really do think it's struggling with very poor conditions. Its
roots can't spread out for nourishment; it's probably/possibly altogether
too wet at the root; it's got bark chippings rotting down on top of it,
which, not everyone knows, take nitrogen from the soil while they rot and
only put it back once they've finished doing so; it's got weed membrane too
which holds moisture in and sounds as if its position is too sunny. At
present, I think it sounds as if everything that could be wrong for this
plant is wrong. I can only repeat that my suggestion is that you lift it,
carefully cut away the hessian while not 'trimming' the roots, and re-plant
it. Don't replace the weed membrane; don't replace the bark chippings and
if possible, give it a bit of shade, though I don't think that's as crucial
as all the other variables. Hollies do drop some leaves from time to time
and some do get spindly but I think this is struggling because of where it's
been put and how.
But the thing that intrigues me is why you haven't asked the original
supplier what he or she thinks is wrong with it? Have you tried talking to
them? A reputable nursery or gc should either give you advice on what might
be wrong or replace the plant if it's a bad one.
And BTW, when you/if you, take up the plant, take a look for vine weevil
grubs, just to be on the safe side. (Don't look at this url just before or
after a meal!)
http://www.junglegardens.com/images/VineWeevilGrub.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'