Hi,

I posted on uk.diy about the diy aspects of this, but I thought maybe
I should ask here about the horticultural points.

I've got a patio which goes up to a wall which I want to grow climbers
up. I could just put the climbers in pots. But probably the neatest
and most easily-maintained option would be to put them in the ground
by cutting through the slabs and excavating the base a bit until I hit
soil, and then filling the resulting hole with compost.

From uk.diy discussions it looks like the best way to do this will be
by using a core cutter and a drill to make a 4" (or maybe 6"?) hole
straight through the paving and base to the soil.

Does anyone here have any experience of this or thoughts about it? I
don't know that the condition of the soil is under the paving, and I
won't have much chance of digging in loads of horse manure through a
4" hole. Clearly the plants will be close to the wall, and its
foundations. Will it be too difficult to get the climbers established?
I'm planning on using an automatic watering system with a drip-feed to
keep them well-watered. Should I go back to plan A and use pots?

Cheers!

Martin

On 2/5/07 11:12, in article
, "Martin Pentreath"
wrote:

Hi,

I posted on uk.diy about the diy aspects of this, but I thought maybe
I should ask here about the horticultural points.

I've got a patio which goes up to a wall which I want to grow climbers
up. I could just put the climbers in pots. But probably the neatest
and most easily-maintained option would be to put them in the ground
by cutting through the slabs and excavating the base a bit until I hit
soil, and then filling the resulting hole with compost.

From uk.diy discussions it looks like the best way to do this will be
by using a core cutter and a drill to make a 4" (or maybe 6"?) hole
straight through the paving and base to the soil.

Does anyone here have any experience of this or thoughts about it? I
don't know that the condition of the soil is under the paving, and I
won't have much chance of digging in loads of horse manure through a
4" hole. Clearly the plants will be close to the wall, and its
foundations. Will it be too difficult to get the climbers established?
I'm planning on using an automatic watering system with a drip-feed to
keep them well-watered. Should I go back to plan A and use pots?

It might be better and easier for you to take up a whole slab, manure and
compost the earth underneath as best you can before planting. And then,
having put in your climber, underplant it with e.g. flowering herbs like
thymes or rosemary. If the plants are close to the wall, they'll be in the
rain shadow of the house and will need plenty of water, especially during
dry periods.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
Devon County Show 17-19 May
http://www.devoncountyshow.co.uk/

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| It might be better and easier for you to take up a whole slab, manure and
| compost the earth underneath as best you can before planting. And then,
| having put in your climber, underplant it with e.g. flowering herbs like
| thymes or rosemary. If the plants are close to the wall, they'll be in the
| rain shadow of the house and will need plenty of water, especially during
| dry periods.

Agreed.

One other (New! Green! Ecological!) idea, if the soil underneath
is reasonably open (i.e. they can get their roots through), is to
plant climbers and plants that positively like the rain shadow.
I have Cyclamen coum and Passiflora incarnata in such a location,
and am trying out Clematis cirrhosa this year.

They need water until they get established, they need SOME wet in
winter, and the climbers need to be able to get their roots to
water in summer. But do I need to water them? Do I, heck. And
that is low-hassle :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I posted on uk.diy about the diy aspects of this, but I thought maybe
I should ask here about the horticultural points.

I've got a patio which goes up to a wall which I want to grow climbers
up. I could just put the climbers in pots. But probably the neatest
and most easily-maintained option would be to put them in the ground
by cutting through the slabs and excavating the base a bit until I hit
soil, and then filling the resulting hole with compost.

From uk.diy discussions it looks like the best way to do this will be
by using a core cutter and a drill to make a 4" (or maybe 6"?) hole
straight through the paving and base to the soil.

Does anyone here have any experience of this or thoughts about it? I
don't know that the condition of the soil is under the paving, and I
won't have much chance of digging in loads of horse manure through a
4" hole. Clearly the plants will be close to the wall, and its
foundations. Will it be too difficult to get the climbers established?
I'm planning on using an automatic watering system with a drip-feed to
keep them well-watered. Should I go back to plan A and use pots?




Cheers!

Martin


Hi Martin

We have this as well and what I have done is to lift the complete paving
slab, cut it in half using a Lump Hammer and Cold Chisel, then replacing the
half slab. This leaves open ground to the tune of half a slab for planting
and watering.

If you have two places to do, then one slab cut in half will serve both
places and you have a slab spare :-))

Cutting a slab in two is not as frightening as it sounds and I am more than
willing to give advice as it's a case of 'been there, done that .... etc etc
etc '

Mike

--
.................................................. ..............
The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association if you served in the Electrical Branch of the Royal Navy
www.rneba.org.uk

'Mike' wrote:
"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
ups.com...
snipped

Hi Martin

We have this as well and what I have done is to lift the complete
paving slab, cut it in half using a Lump Hammer and Cold Chisel, then
replacing the half slab. This leaves open ground to the tune of half
a slab for planting and watering.

If you have two places to do, then one slab cut in half will serve
both places and you have a slab spare :-))

Cutting a slab in two is not as frightening as it sounds and I am
more than willing to give advice as it's a case of 'been there, done
that .... etc etc etc '

Mike

I'd agree with Mike. But I'd add......get a cheap 6" angle grinder
(Argos/B&Q). Cut a line across the slab to about half an inch, and tap with
a lump hammer. Much cleaner edge. That's what I did, then found lots of
other uses for the grinder
--
ßôyþëtë
London, UK

"BoyPete" wrote in message
...
'Mike' wrote:
"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
ups.com...
snipped

Hi Martin

We have this as well and what I have done is to lift the complete
paving slab, cut it in half using a Lump Hammer and Cold Chisel, then
replacing the half slab. This leaves open ground to the tune of half
a slab for planting and watering.

If you have two places to do, then one slab cut in half will serve
both places and you have a slab spare :-))

Cutting a slab in two is not as frightening as it sounds and I am
more than willing to give advice as it's a case of 'been there, done
that .... etc etc etc '

Mike

I'd agree with Mike. But I'd add......get a cheap 6" angle grinder
(Argos/B&Q). Cut a line across the slab to about half an inch, and tap
with a lump hammer. Much cleaner edge. That's what I did, then found lots
of other uses for the grinder
--
ßôyþëtë
London, UK



Agreed :-)

Why didn't I think of that? AND I have an Angle Grinder :-((

Senior moment?

Mike

--
.................................................. ..............
The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association if you served in the Electrical Branch of the Royal Navy
www.rneba.org.uk

'Mike' wrote:
"BoyPete" wrote in message
...
'Mike' wrote:
"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
ups.com...
snipped

Hi Martin

We have this as well and what I have done is to lift the complete
paving slab, cut it in half using a Lump Hammer and Cold Chisel,
then replacing the half slab. This leaves open ground to the tune
of half a slab for planting and watering.

If you have two places to do, then one slab cut in half will serve
both places and you have a slab spare :-))

Cutting a slab in two is not as frightening as it sounds and I am
more than willing to give advice as it's a case of 'been there, done
that .... etc etc etc '

Mike

I'd agree with Mike. But I'd add......get a cheap 6" angle grinder
(Argos/B&Q). Cut a line across the slab to about half an inch, and
tap with a lump hammer. Much cleaner edge. That's what I did, then
found lots of other uses for the grinder
--
ßôyþëtë
London, UK



Agreed :-)

Why didn't I think of that? AND I have an Angle Grinder :-((

Senior moment?

Mike

LOL. You have them too eh?
--
ßôyþëtë
London, UK

On 2 May, 15:13, "'Mike'" wrote:
Hi Martin

We have this as well and what I have done is to lift the complete paving
slab, cut it in half using a Lump Hammer and Cold Chisel, then replacing the
half slab. This leaves open ground to the tune of half a slab for planting
and watering.

If you have two places to do, then one slab cut in half will serve both
places and you have a slab spare :-))

Cutting a slab in two is not as frightening as it sounds and I am more than
willing to give advice as it's a case of 'been there, done that .... etc etc
etc '

Thanks for the advice Mike and Boypete. An angle grinder attack was my
original plan, but then uk.diy persuaded me that using a core cutter
would be better! The advantage I can see of the core cutter is (a)
that a nice round hole would be kind of neat, (b) because my patio is
small I can't afford to lose too many of the slabs themselves, and (c)
that I think I have a pretty hefty and thick sub-base of aggregate
under the paving (the guys who laid it didn't cut corners) which the
core cutter could go through down to the soil relatively quickly (I've
got four of these to do).

Did you have much trouble with getting through the base beneath your
slabs doing it your way? Or actually getting the slab up the way you
did it Mike? Mine seem to have been laid to survive nuclear blasts.

Cheers!

Martin

"BoyPete" wrote in message
...
'Mike' wrote:
Senior moment?

Mike

LOL. You have them too eh?
--

I won't tell of the latest one I have had :-((

AND it involves the charter and advertising :-((

Mike


--
.................................................. ..............
The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association if you served in the Electrical Branch of the Royal Navy
www.rneba.org.uk

"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
Thanks for the advice Mike and Boypete. An angle grinder attack was my
original plan, but then uk.diy persuaded me that using a core cutter
would be better! The advantage I can see of the core cutter is (a)
that a nice round hole would be kind of neat, (b) because my patio is
small I can't afford to lose too many of the slabs themselves, and (c)
that I think I have a pretty hefty and thick sub-base of aggregate
under the paving (the guys who laid it didn't cut corners) which the
core cutter could go through down to the soil relatively quickly (I've
got four of these to do).

Did you have much trouble with getting through the base beneath your
slabs doing it your way? Or actually getting the slab up the way you
did it Mike? Mine seem to have been laid to survive nuclear blasts.

Cheers!

Martin


:-((

I was laying a new patio right across the back of the house so it was easy
for me to crack open the dreadful broken concrete. The slab cutting was for
her indoors who is the ''planty'' gardener :-))

My thoughts on your situation is the sufficient area you can find for roots
:-((((((((

Now the latest update on the area is that last year I put a verandah over
the whole patio and thus the beds are now covered with a membrane and stones
put on them with planters etc. With the next move being a Bougainvillea
being planted to go over the back of the house which we know will have to be
watered :-)

Sorry I am unable to help any further

Mike

--
.................................................. ..............
The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association if you served in the Electrical Branch of the Royal Navy
www.rneba.org.uk

In article . com,
Martin Pentreath writes:
|
| Thanks for the advice Mike and Boypete. An angle grinder attack was my
| original plan, but then uk.diy persuaded me that using a core cutter
| would be better! The advantage I can see of the core cutter is (a)
| that a nice round hole would be kind of neat, (b) because my patio is
| small I can't afford to lose too many of the slabs themselves, and (c)
| that I think I have a pretty hefty and thick sub-base of aggregate
| under the paving (the guys who laid it didn't cut corners) which the
| core cutter could go through down to the soil relatively quickly (I've
| got four of these to do).

That is a VERY strong argument for getting the slabs up. You need to
ensure that the climbers can get their roots down, and woul won't
know if you have just broken through one layer of several if you use
a core-cutter. You can always cut a small section out or even use
a core cutter, once it is up, but you need it up to break up the
layer underneath.

Unless the idiots did what they did next door (would you believe 18"
of poured concrete?), a pickaxe/grubaxe would be enough to deal with
the sub-layer.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

'Mike' wrote:
"BoyPete" wrote in message
...
'Mike' wrote:
Senior moment?

Mike

LOL. You have them too eh?
--

I won't tell of the latest one I have had :-((

AND it involves the charter and advertising :-((

Mike

Don't fret...........life's too short
--
ßôyþëtë
London, UK

"BoyPete" wrote in message
...
'Mike' wrote:
"BoyPete" wrote in message
...
'Mike' wrote:
Senior moment?

Mike

LOL. You have them too eh?
--

I won't tell of the latest one I have had :-((

AND it involves the charter and advertising :-((

Mike

Don't fret...........life's too short
--
ßôyþëtë
London, UK


:-))))

Exactly

:-))))

Mike


--
.................................................. ..............
The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association if you served in the Electrical Branch of the Royal Navy
www.rneba.org.uk

"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I posted on uk.diy about the diy aspects of this, but I thought maybe
I should ask here about the horticultural points.

I've got a patio which goes up to a wall which I want to grow climbers
up. I could just put the climbers in pots. But probably the neatest
and most easily-maintained option would be to put them in the ground
by cutting through the slabs and excavating the base a bit until I hit
soil, and then filling the resulting hole with compost.

From uk.diy discussions it looks like the best way to do this will be
by using a core cutter and a drill to make a 4" (or maybe 6"?) hole
straight through the paving and base to the soil.

Does anyone here have any experience of this or thoughts about it? I
don't know that the condition of the soil is under the paving, and I
won't have much chance of digging in loads of horse manure through a
4" hole. Clearly the plants will be close to the wall, and its
foundations. Will it be too difficult to get the climbers established?
I'm planning on using an automatic watering system with a drip-feed to
keep them well-watered. Should I go back to plan A and use pots?

Cheers!

Martin
I have not had time to read all the replies so my apologies if I am
repeating someone else, but I have found removing a slab completely,
planting the plant, then top dressing with stone chippings the best
solution, it allows better access and is easier to do and also makes
watering easier.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea