For the second morning running, I looked out of my conservatory window only
to see a pile of feathers around the bird table. Our resident sparrowhawk
has once again collared one of my doves for breakfast. Easy pickings, two
down, three to go. My only worry is that once she has taken all my doves,
she'll start on the two bluetits now building a nest in a box at the bottom
of the garden. I only see the female hawk who is quite fearless and patrols
the estate gardens on a daily basis picking off the house sparrows, her
favourite diet.

MikeCT

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| Be grateful that you haven't a resident vulture like they have in Grosmont in
| North Yorkshire at the moment.

Vultures eat only carrion.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote
after Martin writes:
|
| Be grateful that you haven't a resident vulture like they have in
Grosmont in
| North Yorkshire at the moment.

Vultures eat only carrion.

Rather ties up nicely with the "who took a dead starling thread.". :-)


--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

Hi Mike,

I sympathise, we have had a female sparrowhawk here hunting very actively
(along with the resident Peregrines and Kestrels) since early last autumn.

Having said that, when we were kids they had become so relatively scarce,
due to pesticides, that I try to remind myself that we are all the richer
now.

Whenever I see a sparrowhawk kill I remind myself of the main reason for 'so
few' garden birds nowadays - seven million domestic cats in Britain.

Subsequently I have a zero cat tolerance on our land.

One kill per week per cat... is an awful lot more feathers!

Best wishes,

Keith


"MikeCT" wrote in message
...
For the second morning running, I looked out of my conservatory window
only
to see a pile of feathers around the bird table. Our resident sparrowhawk
has once again collared one of my doves for breakfast. Easy pickings, two
down, three to go. My only worry is that once she has taken all my doves,
she'll start on the two bluetits now building a nest in a box at the
bottom
of the garden. I only see the female hawk who is quite fearless and
patrols
the estate gardens on a daily basis picking off the house sparrows, her
favourite diet.

MikeCT

Keith (Dorset) wrote:

Hi Mike,

I sympathise, we have had a female sparrowhawk here hunting very actively
(along with the resident Peregrines and Kestrels) since early last autumn.

Having said that, when we were kids they had become so relatively scarce,
due to pesticides, that I try to remind myself that we are all the richer
now.

Whenever I see a sparrowhawk kill I remind myself of the main reason for 'so
few' garden birds nowadays - seven million domestic cats in Britain.

Subsequently I have a zero cat tolerance on our land.

One kill per week per cat... is an awful lot more feathers!

Best wishes,

Keith


"MikeCT" wrote in message
...
For the second morning running, I looked out of my conservatory window
only
to see a pile of feathers around the bird table. Our resident sparrowhawk
has once again collared one of my doves for breakfast. Easy pickings, two
down, three to go. My only worry is that once she has taken all my doves,
she'll start on the two bluetits now building a nest in a box at the
bottom
of the garden. I only see the female hawk who is quite fearless and
patrols
the estate gardens on a daily basis picking off the house sparrows, her
favourite diet.

MikeCT




If one pauses to consider ....

'Songbirds' and the 'usual suspects' - Magpies, Sparrowhawks, Peregrines
have actually co-existed quite happily in Britain and elsewhere for
thousands of years. If there is now a problem, it makes absolutely no
sense to blame Magpies, Sparrowhawks or Peregrines. If there is a
problem, logically it must arise from something which is different now
from the last 10,000 years. And even a Sun reader should be able to work
that out, possibly with the help of a few diagrams .... :-)
--
Larry Stoter

"Larry Stoter" wrote in message
...
[...]
If one pauses to consider ....

'Songbirds' and the 'usual suspects' - Magpies, Sparrowhawks,
Peregrines
have actually co-existed quite happily in Britain and elsewhere for
thousands of years. If there is now a problem, it makes absolutely no
sense to blame Magpies, Sparrowhawks or Peregrines. If there is a
problem, logically it must arise from something which is different now
from the last 10,000 years. And even a Sun reader should be able to
work
that out, possibly with the help of a few diagrams .... :-)

I understand the ecology of it makes predators the more vulnerable in
the prey-predator relationship. A decline in the numbers of prey species
will kill off predators; and predators can't increase at the expense of
prey. So a large population of predators inevitably suggests a large
population of prey.

--
Mike.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Mike Lyle wrote:

"Larry Stoter" wrote in message
...
[...]
If one pauses to consider ....

'Songbirds' and the 'usual suspects' - Magpies, Sparrowhawks,
Peregrines
have actually co-existed quite happily in Britain and elsewhere for
thousands of years. If there is now a problem, it makes absolutely no
sense to blame Magpies, Sparrowhawks or Peregrines. If there is a
problem, logically it must arise from something which is different now
from the last 10,000 years. And even a Sun reader should be able to
work
that out, possibly with the help of a few diagrams .... :-)

I understand the ecology of it makes predators the more vulnerable in
the prey-predator relationship. A decline in the numbers of prey species
will kill off predators; and predators can't increase at the expense of
prey. So a large population of predators inevitably suggests a large
population of prey.

That is the theory and, as far as can be determined by observation, the
reality in the vast majority of cases - as far as I understand it :-)

The point I was trying to make was that when things go wrong, 999 times
out of 1,000, somewhere along the line, human activity is to blame. It
is also important to appreciate that there is a big difference between
Mrs Cholmondley Bigbucket reporting that Magpies are killing all the
Songbirds in her back garden and a scientific study. While anecdotal
evidence might be useful, it can be very misleading and result in people
jumping to all sorts of erroneous conclusions.
--
Larry Stoter

Magpies were once quite scarce here on Portland.

Nowadays we see flocks of thirty five together not uncommonly, out of the
main breeding season.

The increase over recent years has been attributed to the increase in
traffic roadkills - bunnies, (we don't use the 'R' word here.. local
superstition dictates) hedgehogs, and other birds.

Likewise there has been an increase in Carrion Crow. We don't have the trees
for rookeries. Ravens remain few. One imagines they need larger breeding
territories.

Keith
Isle of Portland





"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , Larry Stoter
writes
Mike Lyle wrote:

"Larry Stoter" wrote in message
...
[...]
If one pauses to consider ....

'Songbirds' and the 'usual suspects' - Magpies, Sparrowhawks,
Peregrines
have actually co-existed quite happily in Britain and elsewhere for
thousands of years. If there is now a problem, it makes absolutely no
sense to blame Magpies, Sparrowhawks or Peregrines. If there is a
problem, logically it must arise from something which is different now
from the last 10,000 years. And even a Sun reader should be able to
work
that out, possibly with the help of a few diagrams .... :-)

I understand the ecology of it makes predators the more vulnerable in
the prey-predator relationship. A decline in the numbers of prey species
will kill off predators; and predators can't increase at the expense of
prey. So a large population of predators inevitably suggests a large
population of prey.

That is the theory and, as far as can be determined by observation, the
reality in the vast majority of cases - as far as I understand it :-)

The point I was trying to make was that when things go wrong, 999 times
out of 1,000, somewhere along the line, human activity is to blame. It
is also important to appreciate that there is a big difference between
Mrs Cholmondley Bigbucket reporting that Magpies are killing all the
Songbirds in her back garden and a scientific study. While anecdotal
evidence might be useful, it can be very misleading and result in people
jumping to all sorts of erroneous conclusions.

I can remember receiving a letter from a lady in Surrey who said that
magpies had killed *all* the songbirds in her garden and now she only ever
saw magpies and no other kinds of birds ever visited her garden. I was
sorely tempted to ask her what she thought the magpies were now feeding on
if there were no songbirds left!

--
Malcolm

"Larry Stoter" wrote in message
...
Keith (Dorset) wrote:

Hi Mike,

I sympathise, we have had a female sparrowhawk here hunting very actively
(along with the resident Peregrines and Kestrels) since early last
autumn.

Having said that, when we were kids they had become so relatively scarce,
due to pesticides, that I try to remind myself that we are all the richer
now.

Whenever I see a sparrowhawk kill I remind myself of the main reason for
'so
few' garden birds nowadays - seven million domestic cats in Britain.

Subsequently I have a zero cat tolerance on our land.

One kill per week per cat... is an awful lot more feathers!

Best wishes,

Keith


"MikeCT" wrote in message
...
For the second morning running, I looked out of my conservatory window
only
to see a pile of feathers around the bird table. Our resident
sparrowhawk
has once again collared one of my doves for breakfast. Easy pickings,
two
down, three to go. My only worry is that once she has taken all my
doves,
she'll start on the two bluetits now building a nest in a box at the
bottom
of the garden. I only see the female hawk who is quite fearless and
patrols
the estate gardens on a daily basis picking off the house sparrows, her
favourite diet.

MikeCT




If one pauses to consider ....

'Songbirds' and the 'usual suspects' - Magpies, Sparrowhawks, Peregrines
have actually co-existed quite happily in Britain and elsewhere for
thousands of years. If there is now a problem, it makes absolutely no
sense to blame Magpies, Sparrowhawks or Peregrines. If there is a
problem, logically it must arise from something which is different now
from the last 10,000 years. And even a Sun reader should be able to work
that out, possibly with the help of a few diagrams .... :-)

Well I'm not very bright, so please enlighthen me?

Alan

"Keith (Dorset)" wrote in message
...

Hi Mike,

I sympathise, we have had a female sparrowhawk here hunting very actively
(along with the resident Peregrines and Kestrels) since early last autumn.

Having said that, when we were kids they had become so relatively scarce,
due to pesticides, that I try to remind myself that we are all the richer
now.

Whenever I see a sparrowhawk kill I remind myself of the main reason for
'so few' garden birds nowadays - seven million domestic cats in Britain.

In my garden the main reason for the lack of birds, is the damned tree rat,
as far as I'm aware cats are not so good at climbing trees as tree rats.

So don't go blaming the cats.

Alan

Well I guess it's all a matter of where one lives...

We're not in Sumatra. ;-)

Keith


"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"Keith (Dorset)" wrote in message
...

Hi Mike,

I sympathise, we have had a female sparrowhawk here hunting very actively
(along with the resident Peregrines and Kestrels) since early last
autumn.

Having said that, when we were kids they had become so relatively scarce,
due to pesticides, that I try to remind myself that we are all the richer
now.

Whenever I see a sparrowhawk kill I remind myself of the main reason for
'so few' garden birds nowadays - seven million domestic cats in Britain.

In my garden the main reason for the lack of birds, is the damned tree
rat, as far as I'm aware cats are not so good at climbing trees as tree
rats.

So don't go blaming the cats.

Alan

In article ,
"Alan Holmes" writes:
| "Larry Stoter" wrote in message
| ...
|
| 'Songbirds' and the 'usual suspects' - Magpies, Sparrowhawks, Peregrines
| have actually co-existed quite happily in Britain and elsewhere for
| thousands of years. If there is now a problem, it makes absolutely no
| sense to blame Magpies, Sparrowhawks or Peregrines. If there is a
| problem, logically it must arise from something which is different now
| from the last 10,000 years. And even a Sun reader should be able to work
| that out, possibly with the help of a few diagrams .... :-)
|
| Well I'm not very bright, so please enlighthen me?

Well, I arrogantly claim that I am, and Larry Stoter is wrong, though
he is also right.

There are only a few multicellular plants or animals that were here
11,000 years ago that are still here today. Since that time, the
ecologies of the British Isles have never been stable for more than
a very short period, and has been largely created by man. The
British Isles' terrestrial ecologies are all at least partially
artificial.

'Songbirds' are one of the benefactors of this, and were VASTLY more
common in the UK than in any natural ecology - at least in the past
century. This has changed, and the reason is very probably cats, but
there is no point in looking for things that are different from the
past 10,000 years, as there has been continual change.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Keith (Dorset)" wrote in message
...

Hi Mike,

I sympathise, we have had a female sparrowhawk here hunting very actively
(along with the resident Peregrines and Kestrels) since early last autumn.

Having said that, when we were kids they had become so relatively scarce,
due to pesticides, that I try to remind myself that we are all the richer
now.

Whenever I see a sparrowhawk kill I remind myself of the main reason for
'so few' garden birds nowadays - seven million domestic cats in Britain.

I have had cats for a long time and the only 'gifts' I have every been
offered, have been mice, as far as I can remember none of them have ever
offered me a bird, dead or otherwise.

Alan

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , Alan Holmes
writes


"Keith (Dorset)" wrote in message
...

Hi Mike,

I sympathise, we have had a female sparrowhawk here hunting very
actively
(along with the resident Peregrines and Kestrels) since early last
autumn.

Having said that, when we were kids they had become so relatively
scarce,
due to pesticides, that I try to remind myself that we are all the
richer
now.

Whenever I see a sparrowhawk kill I remind myself of the main reason for
'so few' garden birds nowadays - seven million domestic cats in Britain.

I have had cats for a long time and the only 'gifts' I have every been
offered, have been mice, as far as I can remember none of them have ever
offered me a bird, dead or otherwise.

Clearly proof that all the birds have been eaten.........:-))

I wondered why it is so quiet?(:-)

Alan



--
Malcolm

In article ,
Malcolm writes:
|
| There are only a few multicellular plants or animals that were here
| 11,000 years ago that are still here today.
|
| How do you work that out? 11,000 years ago, i.e. 9,000 BC, Britain had
| tundra, forests, marshes, freshwater lakes, rivers, streams, etc., all
| holding a huge range of plants and animals, the great majority of which
| are still here today, including man.

According to all the references I have seen (in particular Yalden
and Birks), the glaciers still reached down to the Midlands in 11,00 BP,
and the ice-free parts of Britain were tundra. If that date is wrong,
make it 11,500 or 12,000 or whatever matches.

It is unlikely that any species of tree grew in the UK then, except
perhaps for Scots pine and JUST possibly birch, or more than 2-3
species of mammal (probably not including man) that are here today,
according to Yalden. There were many more in the warm periods, of
course.

Invertebrates are harder to estimate, but there is some evidence for
beetles.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.