Hi,
Is it best to use topsoil or manure (horse or chicken) in raised beds?

Thanks

"tina" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 00:18:55 +1300, "George.com"
wrote:

My soil is SOLID clay, miles clayier that the lady called carol who is
on the grow your own Veg TV program, when she described hers as heavy
clay, ours is SOLID clay. e.g. If I crab some I can mold it into any
shape i like, bowls, stick men etc :-)

Luckily I have a friend who works at a stables who has offered me some
horse manure, as well as a friend who owns 300 chickens who has also
offered me some chicken manure.
In readiness for my plot I set up 5 compost bins, although it doesnt
look to have composted sufficiently yet.

I have an oak tree at the end of the garden & I collected 5 black bin
bags full of leaves, & shredded them, so plan to chuck that in s well.

I'm also going to buy a couple of 8ft by 4ft plaster boards & chuck
those in as well in the hope that the gypsum in the boards may help to
break the solid clay up a bit.

if you have really rubbish soil then leave it where it is and build up BUT
you don't need to go grabbing soil from off property. A modified form of
lazanga garden will do fine. You might charitably term my gardens lazagna
gardens though 'reheated leftovers mixed together' is more likely. Sounds
like you have most of the ingredients to make a bottler garden over time. If
your ingredients are all fresh and you bung/layer it in now it will be in
reasonable condition by the start of summer. If things are well rotted it
will be just a few weeks for it to settle down and then planting in early
spring. If your poop is fresh it will benefit from a few months in-situ in
the garden before you plant in to it. If leaving the garden a while, spread
the best of your compost over the top as a planting bed and it will break
down into a nice tilth. If you want to plant before a seeding layer has
fully formed you can bring in some finished compost or top soil. Over a
spring summer mind it is surprising how quickly organic rich raised beds
settle down. I'd be tempted to start tomorrow and leave any decision as to
whether you need to bring in a seeding layer close to when you need it.
Every couple of weeks rummage around in the gardens and see how the
deomposition is going. Very therapeutic.

rob

"tina" wrote in message
...
Hi,
Is it best to use topsoil or manure (horse or chicken) in raised beds?

what type of soil? whatever you have around to put in it.

I you have a load of topsoil sitting round your property use that. If you
also have various varieties of poop spread that in as well. If you have
compost mix that through as you made the bed. If you have neither topsoil
not poop nor finished compost chuck a load of organic matter in to the beds
and leave it long enough (google "lazanga gardens/ing) and you have soil. If
you have a thinish layer of finished compost or soil use that several inchs
thick as a planting/seeding layer and eventually the bottom layers will
break down. Depending on what you put in, all you need be mindful of is how
nutritious the soil will be after a year or so. If you put in crap soil to
start off you will likely need to manure if after a year of growing. If you
bung in a generous mix of poop or compost it will likely retain nutients for
2-3 years.

Heres what I have used for 7 raised beds (all 300-400 mills high). Whatever
I had on hand or could obtain free/cheap.

earth dug when putting in paths
finished compost, partly finished compost
leaves
twigs
waste coffee grounds
spoilt hay
horse and sheep poop
kitchen waste, food scraps
leaves
grass clippings

it all went in in various combinations. I left some of the beds 3-4 months
and all was nicely broken down. In ones I planted in to fairly quickly I put
a layer 2-3 inchs of soil or compost over the top. I umed and arred myself
before doing it, but having done it the whole thing is straight forward,
just do it. There is no magic rule, it is really simple, don't make it
complex.

It really does not matter too much what you put in. Avoid contaminated soils
of course but anything organic breaks down well. Most important thing, I
reckon at least, is how you continue to look after your soil. Good or bad to
begin with, long term if you keep it supplied with organic matter and
fertilisers (poop, composts, green manures) it will be good earth.

rob

George.com wrote:
"tina" wrote in message
...
Hi,
Is it best to use topsoil or manure (horse or chicken) in raised
beds?

what type of soil? whatever you have around to put in it.



NO!

Building raised beds is the best ever opportunity to get good
qaulity/condition soil.

If yoy have clay soil, DO NOT fill the beds with it!

If you have very light sndy soil DO NOT fill the beds with it!

If you have a stoy soil DO NOT fill your beds with it

Whatever natural soil you have make sure you raised beds contain a humous
rich, light, stone free, workable mix of soils & compost/manures

pk

"p.k." wrote in message
...
George.com wrote:
"tina" wrote in message
...
Hi,
Is it best to use topsoil or manure (horse or chicken) in raised
beds?

what type of soil? whatever you have around to put in it.



NO!

Building raised beds is the best ever opportunity to get good
qaulity/condition soil.

If yoy have clay soil, DO NOT fill the beds with it!

If you have very light sndy soil DO NOT fill the beds with it!

If you have a stoy soil DO NOT fill your beds with it

Whatever natural soil you have make sure you raised beds contain a humous
rich, light, stone free, workable mix of soils & compost/manures

Now *that's* what I call a sticky keyboard problem ....

"p.k." wrote in message
...
George.com wrote:
"tina" wrote in message
...
Hi,
Is it best to use topsoil or manure (horse or chicken) in raised
beds?

what type of soil? whatever you have around to put in it.



NO!

Building raised beds is the best ever opportunity to get good
qaulity/condition soil.

If yoy have clay soil, DO NOT fill the beds with it!

If you have very light sndy soil DO NOT fill the beds with it!

If you have a stoy soil DO NOT fill your beds with it

Whatever natural soil you have make sure you raised beds contain a humous
rich, light, stone free, workable mix of soils & compost/manures

which means the poster will have to bring in soil if she does not have the
ideal type as you suggested. Sure, if the soil is all clay or all sand then
there may be some choice needing made. My advice was premised on the soil
being reasonably loam, not everyone is lucky enough to have that. That said,
if the soil she has is decent enough then don't worry too much whether it is
'perfect', just build the garden, plant and enjoy. Even 'perfect' soil won't
stay that way for too long if not treated nicely. The long term way you
treat your soil is the key, albeit pk is correct to avoid the extremes of
very sandy or clay soils.

rob

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 00:18:55 +1300, "George.com"
wrote:

My soil is SOLID clay, miles clayier that the lady called carol who is
on the grow your own Veg TV program, when she described hers as heavy
clay, ours is SOLID clay. e.g. If I crab some I can mold it into any
shape i like, bowls, stick men etc :-)

Luckily I have a friend who works at a stables who has offered me some
horse manure, as well as a friend who owns 300 chickens who has also
offered me some chicken manure.
In readiness for my plot I set up 5 compost bins, although it doesnt
look to have composted sufficiently yet.

I have an oak tree at the end of the garden & I collected 5 black bin
bags full of leaves, & shredded them, so plan to chuck that in s well.

I'm also going to buy a couple of 8ft by 4ft plaster boards & chuck
those in as well in the hope that the gypsum in the boards may help to
break the solid clay up a bit.



which means the poster will have to bring in soil if she does not have the
ideal type as you suggested. Sure, if the soil is all clay or all sand then
there may be some choice needing made. My advice was premised on the soil
being reasonably loam, not everyone is lucky enough to have that. That said,
if the soil she has is decent enough then don't worry too much whether it is
'perfect', just build the garden, plant and enjoy. Even 'perfect' soil won't
stay that way for too long if not treated nicely. The long term way you
treat your soil is the key, albeit pk is correct to avoid the extremes of
very sandy or clay soils.

rob

On 17 Feb, 16:46, tina wrote:
Luckily I have a friend who works at a stables who has offered me some
horse manure, as well as a friend who owns 300 chickens who has also
offered me some chicken manure.
In readiness for my plot I set up 5 compost bins, although it doesnt
look to have composted sufficiently yet.
I have an oak tree at the end of the garden & I collected 5 black bin
bags full of leaves, & shredded them, so plan to chuck that in s well.
I'm also going to buy a couple of 8ft by 4ft plaster boards & chuck
those in as well in the hope that the gypsum in the boards may help to
break the solid clay up a bit.

That's great but how BIG are those beds of yours?! Sounds huge! I've
made lots of raised beds, at home and at the lotty. At home I used top
soil, followed by lots and lots of OM on top. They are were a garage
used to be for perhaps 100 years and the ground had lots of layers of
rubbles, concrete, sand, tarmac ... I just blasted the lot with a
hamer and pick axe and build upon it. In the lotty my beds are no more
higher than 30cm, on an area with clay just like yours (my younger
kid made a family of little frogs sculptures with it with stones for
eyes ... dried in the sun). I've just added OM, grass and leaves and
within about 3 years they are all really beautiful now. Ideally these
should have been done in the autumn - but given 2 months or so, they
should be ready for all your planting out in April )

On 17 Feb 2007 09:05:07 -0800, "La Puce" wrote:

No I dont think there that big, 3 beds 21 railway sleepers in total.
1 sleper high, but I plan to dig well into the solid clay & put some
land drainage pipes in to help with the drainage, then chuck all the
compost etc on top of the pipes.

Or am I going over the top??
On 17 Feb, 16:46, tina wrote:
Luckily I have a friend who works at a stables who has offered me some
horse manure, as well as a friend who owns 300 chickens who has also
offered me some chicken manure.
In readiness for my plot I set up 5 compost bins, although it doesnt
look to have composted sufficiently yet.
I have an oak tree at the end of the garden & I collected 5 black bin
bags full of leaves, & shredded them, so plan to chuck that in s well.
I'm also going to buy a couple of 8ft by 4ft plaster boards & chuck
those in as well in the hope that the gypsum in the boards may help to
break the solid clay up a bit.

That's great but how BIG are those beds of yours?! Sounds huge! I've
made lots of raised beds, at home and at the lotty. At home I used top
soil, followed by lots and lots of OM on top. They are were a garage
used to be for perhaps 100 years and the ground had lots of layers of
rubbles, concrete, sand, tarmac ... I just blasted the lot with a
hamer and pick axe and build upon it. In the lotty my beds are no more
higher than 30cm, on an area with clay just like yours (my younger
kid made a family of little frogs sculptures with it with stones for
eyes ... dried in the sun). I've just added OM, grass and leaves and
within about 3 years they are all really beautiful now. Ideally these
should have been done in the autumn - but given 2 months or so, they
should be ready for all your planting out in April )

"tina" wrote in message
...
On 17 Feb 2007 09:05:07 -0800, "La Puce" wrote:

No I dont think there that big, 3 beds 21 railway sleepers in total.
1 sleper high, but I plan to dig well into the solid clay & put some
land drainage pipes in to help with the drainage, then chuck all the
compost etc on top of the pipes.


Tina where are these land drains going to take the water to? If it is some
other part of the garden, that bit will be flooded. Water has to 'go'
somewhere. Now if you have a nice convenient ditch at the bottom of the
garden :-)))))

Mike


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

"tina" wrote in message
...
On 17 Feb 2007 09:05:07 -0800, "La Puce" wrote:

No I dont think there that big, 3 beds 21 railway sleepers in total.
1 sleper high, but I plan to dig well into the solid clay & put some
land drainage pipes in to help with the drainage, then chuck all the
compost etc on top of the pipes.

aye, chucking it in will work. Bunging it in will be even better.

rob

In article , tina
writes

I'm also going to buy a couple of 8ft by 4ft plaster boards & chuck
those in as well in the hope that the gypsum in the boards may help to
break the solid clay up a bit.


I would have thought gravel would be the best bet to dig in. This will
break up the clay somewhat.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

g'day tina,

we start our beds with mushroom compost right from the farm, and we
have good results and always have done.

check our pic's and descriptions on our web page, the 'building a
garden' and the 'straw bale garden' pages.


On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 09:48:50 +0000, tina wrote:

Hi,
Is it best to use topsoil or manure (horse or chicken) in raised beds?

Thanks
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

In article ,
Janet Tweedy wrote:

In article , tina
writes

I'm also going to buy a couple of 8ft by 4ft plaster boards & chuck
those in as well in the hope that the gypsum in the boards may help to
break the solid clay up a bit.


Buy? Use new plasterboard? If gypsum is a good idea, I'd have
thought finding it in skips where people are doing building work
would make more sense. Alternatively, to save you handling and
breaking up large cumbersome boards, why not buy the plaster
unused in powder form?