"pearl" wrote in message news:...
...
it shows the reason *why* imports went up from *near zero*:

Correction: .... why imports went up from self-sufficiency | + | .

...
Soviet grain production increases (predominantly in Russia and
Kazakhstan) of about 60 million tonnes per year from the early
1960s to the late 1970s was not sufficient to support the increase
in livestock inventories. For this reason, Soviet imports of grain
increased from near zero in 1970 to 36 million tonnes per year in
the 1980s (Shend, 1993).
..'
http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/y5069e/y5069e03.htm
...

Alan Holmes wrote:
"pearl" wrote i

A lot of crap

Please, please, please, stop crossposting this crap, just answer to the
group you have read it in.

Pearl reads little in these groups, she does however post her crap to
all of them, quite deliberately.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

"Old Codger" wrote in message
...
Alan Holmes wrote:
"pearl" wrote i

A lot of crap

Please, please, please, stop crossposting this crap, just answer to the
group you have read it in.

Pearl reads little in these groups, she does however post her crap to all
of them, quite deliberately.

That is why she is in my killfile and I also trim the reply to the group I
read any responses to her garbage in.


--
Chris, West Cork, Ireland.

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in
message
...

Because most of your food ingredients are actually imported from
water
deficient countries you get awfully embarassed

What are you talking about? Let's have some examples. Anyhoo..

right, give us your food ingredients

A wide variety of vegetables, leafy greens, fruits, legumes,
seeds and nuts, and some wholegrains. Negligible soya.
(14 January 2007 15:04)

jolly good, but a bit like pulling teeth

I don't see how.

do these vegetables, fruits and legumes have names?

Su potatoes, celery, plums, strawberries, peas, beans..

Varieties,

Red Arrow broccoli, Rondo garden peas, Nectar Queen
climbing french bean, Valdai lettuce, Westland winter kale...

Similarly the nuts

Walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pecans, sweet chestnuts, etc.


and the sources for the above

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in
message
...

Because most of your food ingredients are actually imported from
water
deficient countries you get awfully embarassed

What are you talking about? Let's have some examples. Anyhoo..

right, give us your food ingredients

A wide variety of vegetables, leafy greens, fruits, legumes,
seeds and nuts, and some wholegrains. Negligible soya.
(14 January 2007 15:04)

jolly good, but a bit like pulling teeth

I don't see how.

do these vegetables, fruits and legumes have names?

Su potatoes, celery, plums, strawberries, peas, beans..

Varieties,

Red Arrow broccoli, Rondo garden peas, Nectar Queen
climbing french bean, Valdai lettuce, Westland winter kale...

Similarly the nuts

Walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pecans, sweet chestnuts, etc.


and the sources for the above

"Because most of your food ingredients are actually imported from
water deficient countries ..." - you said. So why don't you tell us.

Then comment on the following:

'Water, wheat and beef

All farming needs water. But the amount of water needed to produce
a pound of beef is far greater than that required for a pound of wheat.

Water usage

Earth is two-thirds water, and only 0.06 per cent of this is fresh
water and even less of this is available as drinking water.

Animal agriculture uses huge amounts of water, energy and chemicals,
often with little regard for the long-term adverse effects. Between
1960 and 2000 worldwide usage of water doubled (25). Agriculture
uses 70 per cent of all water, while in many developing countries the
figure is as high as 85 to 95 per cent (26). Many irrigation systems
are pumping water from underground reservoirs much faster than
they can ever be recharged.

The production of meat is an inefficient use of such a vital limited
resource. [...] The University of California studied water use in
their state, where most agricultural land is irrigated, and said it uses
between 20 to 30 gallons of water to produce vegetables such as
tomatoes, potatoes and carrots to create an edible pound of food.
It takes 441 gallons of water to make a pound of beef (28).

Fresh water, once a seemingly abundant resource, is now becoming
scarce in many regions and that poses a real threat to the stability
of the world. Numerous countries are in dispute over water supplies,
and the seeds of future wars are clearly beginning to germinate.
...'
http://www.viva.org.uk/guides/planetonaplate.htm

In the US:

'Feed-grain farming guzzles water, too. In California, now the
United States' leading dairy state, livestock agriculture consumes
nearly one-third of all irrigation water. Similar figures apply across
the western United States, including areas using water from
dwindling aquifers. The beef feedlot center of the nation -- Colorado,
Kansas, Nebraska, and the Texas panhandle -- relies on crops raised
with water pumped out of an underground water source called the
Ogallala aquifer, portions of which have been severely depleted.
With half of the grain and hay fed to American beef cattle growing
on irrigated land, water inputs for beef production mount. More
than 3,000 liters of water are used to produce a kilogram of
American beef. (Reisner & Bates 1990; Sweeten 1990; Weeks et al.
1988; Oltjen 1991; Ward, Dept. Animal Sciences)
...'
http://www.thevegetariansite.com/env_animalfarming.htm

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in
message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in
message
...

Because most of your food ingredients are actually imported from
water
deficient countries you get awfully embarassed

What are you talking about? Let's have some examples. Anyhoo..

right, give us your food ingredients

A wide variety of vegetables, leafy greens, fruits, legumes,
seeds and nuts, and some wholegrains. Negligible soya.
(14 January 2007 15:04)

jolly good, but a bit like pulling teeth

I don't see how.

do these vegetables, fruits and legumes have names?

Su potatoes, celery, plums, strawberries, peas, beans..

Varieties,

Red Arrow broccoli, Rondo garden peas, Nectar Queen
climbing french bean, Valdai lettuce, Westland winter kale...

Similarly the nuts

Walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pecans, sweet chestnuts, etc.


and the sources for the above

"Because most of your food ingredients are actually imported from
water deficient countries ..." - you said. So why don't you tell us.


how can I know where you food comes from, look on the packet or tell us what
you ate today and where that was from

Jim Webster

Alan Holmes wrote:
"pearl" wrote:

The usual load of rubbish


Why the hell don't you show a little consideration and stop crossposting
this to so many unrelated newsgroups, just reply to the newsgroup in which
you read it.

I have told you at least twice that she doesn't read, just posts and
cross posts deliberately. I have also just posted a response by someone
else to your posts that also explains why your request will not be met.

Alternatively, just FOAD.

The best suggestion you have posted in response to all this cross posted
crap.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in
message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in
message
...

Because most of your food ingredients are actually imported from
water
deficient countries you get awfully embarassed

What are you talking about? Let's have some examples. Anyhoo..

right, give us your food ingredients

A wide variety of vegetables, leafy greens, fruits, legumes,
seeds and nuts, and some wholegrains. Negligible soya.
(14 January 2007 15:04)

jolly good, but a bit like pulling teeth

I don't see how.

do these vegetables, fruits and legumes have names?

Su potatoes, celery, plums, strawberries, peas, beans..

Varieties,

Red Arrow broccoli, Rondo garden peas, Nectar Queen
climbing french bean, Valdai lettuce, Westland winter kale...

Similarly the nuts

Walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pecans, sweet chestnuts, etc.


and the sources for the above

"Because most of your food ingredients are actually imported from
water deficient countries ..." - you said. So why don't you tell us.

how can I know where you food comes from,

I don't know, but your statement above indicated that you do.

You lied, again.

look on the packet or tell us what
you ate today and where that was from

You have a list of the sort of foods I eat above; you've been asked
for examples and even given carte blanche to tell us the worst case
scenario, but if you can't support your claim, as per usual, so be it.

Meanwhile, ignored and repeatedly snipped:

'Water, wheat and beef

All farming needs water. But the amount of water needed to produce
a pound of beef is far greater than that required for a pound of wheat.

Water usage

Earth is two-thirds water, and only 0.06 per cent of this is fresh
water and even less of this is available as drinking water.

Animal agriculture uses huge amounts of water, energy and chemicals,
often with little regard for the long-term adverse effects. Between
1960 and 2000 worldwide usage of water doubled (25). Agriculture
uses 70 per cent of all water, while in many developing countries the
figure is as high as 85 to 95 per cent (26). Many irrigation systems
are pumping water from underground reservoirs much faster than
they can ever be recharged.

The production of meat is an inefficient use of such a vital limited
resource. [...] The University of California studied water use in
their state, where most agricultural land is irrigated, and said it uses
between 20 to 30 gallons of water to produce vegetables such as
tomatoes, potatoes and carrots to create an edible pound of food.
It takes 441 gallons of water to make a pound of beef (28).

Fresh water, once a seemingly abundant resource, is now becoming
scarce in many regions and that poses a real threat to the stability
of the world. Numerous countries are in dispute over water supplies,
and the seeds of future wars are clearly beginning to germinate.
...'
http://www.viva.org.uk/guides/planetonaplate.htm

In the US:

'Feed-grain farming guzzles water, too. In California, now the
United States' leading dairy state, livestock agriculture consumes
nearly one-third of all irrigation water. Similar figures apply across
the western United States, including areas using water from
dwindling aquifers. The beef feedlot center of the nation -- Colorado,
Kansas, Nebraska, and the Texas panhandle -- relies on crops raised
with water pumped out of an underground water source called the
Ogallala aquifer, portions of which have been severely depleted.
With half of the grain and hay fed to American beef cattle growing
on irrigated land, water inputs for beef production mount. More
than 3,000 liters of water are used to produce a kilogram of
American beef. (Reisner & Bates 1990; Sweeten 1990; Weeks et al.
1988; Oltjen 1991; Ward, Dept. Animal Sciences)
...'
http://www.thevegetariansite.com/env_animalfarming.htm

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
how can I know where you food comes from,

I don't know, but your statement above indicated that you do.

You lied, again.

How can I know where your food comes from when you are embarassed to tell us


look on the packet or tell us what
you ate today and where that was from

You have a list of the sort of foods I eat above; you've been asked
for examples and even given carte blanche to tell us the worst case
scenario, but if you can't support your claim, as per usual, so be it.

so why don't you tell us what you ate today, and where your food actually
comes from or are you still embarassed about it

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
how can I know where you food comes from,

I don't know, but your statement above indicated that you do.

You lied, again.

How can I know where your food comes from

You should have thought of that before you blurted out "most of your
food ingredients are actually imported from water deficient countries ...".

when you are embarassed to tell us

False. I told you what I eat early in the thread, and just have again.

look on the packet or tell us what
you ate today and where that was from

You have a list of the sort of foods I eat above; you've been asked
for examples and even given carte blanche to tell us the worst case
scenario, but if you can't support your claim, as per usual, so be it.

so why don't you tell us what you ate today, and where your food actually
comes from or are you still embarassed about it

I eat the sort of foods that were listed above every day. Indeed we
all eat those sorts of foods, so let us know what we should avoid..

Of course, anything to do with the livestock industry, anywhere..

'Water, wheat and beef

All farming needs water. But the amount of water needed to produce
a pound of beef is far greater than that required for a pound of wheat.

Water usage

Earth is two-thirds water, and only 0.06 per cent of this is fresh
water and even less of this is available as drinking water.

Animal agriculture uses huge amounts of water, energy and chemicals,
often with little regard for the long-term adverse effects. Between
1960 and 2000 worldwide usage of water doubled (25). Agriculture
uses 70 per cent of all water, while in many developing countries the
figure is as high as 85 to 95 per cent (26). Many irrigation systems
are pumping water from underground reservoirs much faster than
they can ever be recharged.

The production of meat is an inefficient use of such a vital limited
resource. [...] The University of California studied water use in
their state, where most agricultural land is irrigated, and said it uses
between 20 to 30 gallons of water to produce vegetables such as
tomatoes, potatoes and carrots to create an edible pound of food.
It takes 441 gallons of water to make a pound of beef (28).

Fresh water, once a seemingly abundant resource, is now becoming
scarce in many regions and that poses a real threat to the stability
of the world. Numerous countries are in dispute over water supplies,
and the seeds of future wars are clearly beginning to germinate.
...'
http://www.viva.org.uk/guides/planetonaplate.htm

In the US:

'Feed-grain farming guzzles water, too. In California, now the
United States' leading dairy state, livestock agriculture consumes
nearly one-third of all irrigation water. Similar figures apply across
the western United States, including areas using water from
dwindling aquifers. The beef feedlot center of the nation -- Colorado,
Kansas, Nebraska, and the Texas panhandle -- relies on crops raised
with water pumped out of an underground water source called the
Ogallala aquifer, portions of which have been severely depleted.
With half of the grain and hay fed to American beef cattle growing
on irrigated land, water inputs for beef production mount. More
than 3,000 liters of water are used to produce a kilogram of
American beef. (Reisner & Bates 1990; Sweeten 1990; Weeks et al.
1988; Oltjen 1991; Ward, Dept. Animal Sciences)
...'
http://www.thevegetariansite.com/env_animalfarming.htm

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
how can I know where you food comes from,

I don't know, but your statement above indicated that you do.

You lied, again.

How can I know where your food comes from

You should have thought of that before you blurted out "most of your
food ingredients are actually imported from water deficient countries
...".

good, so where do your food ingredients come from then?

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
how can I know where you food comes from,

I don't know, but your statement above indicated that you do.

You lied, again.

How can I know where your food comes from

You should have thought of that before you blurted out "most of your
food ingredients are actually imported from water deficient countries
...".

good, so where do your food ingredients come from then?

For argument's sake, and because it involves everyone, let's
say that my "food ingredients" come from all over the world.
Now tell us what should be avoided (support with evidence).

Why won't you comment on the inefficient overuse of water
for the livestock industry, jim? You are too embarassed to?

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in
message
how can I know where you food comes from,

I don't know, but your statement above indicated that you do.

You lied, again.

How can I know where your food comes from

You should have thought of that before you blurted out "most of your
food ingredients are actually imported from water deficient countries
...".

good, so where do your food ingredients come from then?

For argument's sake, and because it involves everyone, let's
say that my "food ingredients" come from all over the world.
Now tell us what should be avoided (support with evidence).

simple
Don't eat imported food.
Stick with UK seasonal vegetables
After all you are a vegetarian


Why won't you comment on the inefficient overuse of water
for the livestock industry, jim? You are too embarassed to?

don't need to, you rant on about it all the time
but it has taken over a week to admit that you are every bit as guilty

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"pearl" wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in
message
how can I know where you food comes from,

I don't know, but your statement above indicated that you do.

You lied, again.

How can I know where your food comes from

You should have thought of that before you blurted out "most of your
food ingredients are actually imported from water deficient countries
...".

good, so where do your food ingredients come from then?

For argument's sake, and because it involves everyone, let's
say that my "food ingredients" come from all over the world.
Now tell us what should be avoided (support with evidence).

simple
Don't eat imported food.

That rules out livestock products then, as you use imported feed.
... and the UK is rapidly becoming a water-deficient country too..

Stick with UK seasonal vegetables

I'd like to see evidence of vegetables causing water depletion.

After all you are a vegetarian

So what. We all eat (-need- to eat, for survival and good health)
vegetables, fruits, nuts, legumes and so on. Try living without.

Why won't you comment on the inefficient overuse of water
for the livestock industry, jim? You are too embarassed to?

don't need to, you rant on about it all the time

You do need to, as you are trying to shift the blame onto others.

but it has taken over a week to admit that you are every bit as guilty

I have not. There's no way I could be. It is inefficient unsustainable
consumption for and by the livestock industry that is causing global
water shortages, - requiring 15 to 22 times the water for the same
amount, and at about 40 percent of global agricultural output, that's
nearly twice as much as would be used for plant foods alone - and
~you~ try to blame foods being produced for human beings directly.

Shame on you, webster. Maybe one day you'll find a backbone.

"pearl" wrote in message ...
It is inefficient unsustainable
consumption for and by the livestock industry that is causing global
water shortages, - requiring 15 to 22 times the water for the same
amount, and at about 40 percent of global agricultural output

Saving a few gallons in UK is not going to make those gallons magically appear in the Sahara. If this country ever gets near a water shortage it will be because we ALL waste water on washing cars, sprinkling the lawn, flushing the toilet too many times and in a thousand other ways - to blame it on meat producers is rather fuzzy logic - their contribution to water usage (both globally and in UK) pales into insignificance when compared to the wasteful usage by Joe Public.