I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have installed
timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited success as the
water seems to take the path of least resistance straight down through the
Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the pot, water is running
out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I have potted vines in John Innes compost watered by the same method without
problems.

Has anyone experience of any other peat-free composts?
Would a blended mixture of Bowers and John Innes work?

"Rick Eggleston" wrote in message
...
I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots
with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have
installed
timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited success as
the
water seems to take the path of least resistance straight down through the
Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the pot, water is
running
out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I have potted vines in John Innes compost watered by the same method
without
problems.

Has anyone experience of any other peat-free composts?
Would a blended mixture of Bowers and John Innes work?




Why not stand the pots in saucers to a depth you want the water to be?

That way the roots will still be in water even after the water has run
through!

Mike


--
--------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

Because that would leave the roots permanently waterlogged.

--
Best Regards,

Rick

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Rick Eggleston" wrote in message
...
I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots
with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have
installed
timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited success as
the
water seems to take the path of least resistance straight down through
the
Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the pot, water is
running
out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I have potted vines in John Innes compost watered by the same method
without
problems.

Has anyone experience of any other peat-free composts?
Would a blended mixture of Bowers and John Innes work?




Why not stand the pots in saucers to a depth you want the water to be?

That way the roots will still be in water even after the water has run
through!

Mike


--
--------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

Shallow Saucers for water for the tips of the roots. Water would soak up
into the compost on demnd. I am not a gardener as the owners and net nannies
of this newsgroup will be very very quick to point out, but my wife is an
avid gardener and we have lots of pots, even more now I have built a big
verandah right across the back of the house, and they are all in shallow
saucers.

If it works for her, why not you?

Kind regards

Mike


--
--------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com


"Rick Eggleston" wrote in message
...
Because that would leave the roots permanently waterlogged.

--
Best Regards,

Rick

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Rick Eggleston" wrote in message
...
I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots
with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have
installed
timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited success as
the
water seems to take the path of least resistance straight down through
the
Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the pot, water is
running
out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I have potted vines in John Innes compost watered by the same method
without
problems.

Has anyone experience of any other peat-free composts?
Would a blended mixture of Bowers and John Innes work?




Why not stand the pots in saucers to a depth you want the water to be?

That way the roots will still be in water even after the water has run
through!

Mike


--
--------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

My system already wets "some" of the roots! Might work with patio plants,
but tomatoes, cucumbers etc need to be able to take in large amounts of food
and water and therefore the whole root system needs to work, not just the
tips. Tomato roots rapidly rot if they are left in water, causing the
leaves to yellow and die.



"Mike" wrote in message
...
Shallow Saucers for water for the tips of the roots. Water would soak up
into the compost on demnd. I am not a gardener as the owners and net
nannies
of this newsgroup will be very very quick to point out, but my wife is an
avid gardener and we have lots of pots, even more now I have built a big
verandah right across the back of the house, and they are all in shallow
saucers.

If it works for her, why not you?

Kind regards

Mike


--
--------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com


"Rick Eggleston" wrote in message
...
Because that would leave the roots permanently waterlogged.

--
Best Regards,

Rick

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Rick Eggleston" wrote in message
...
I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots
with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have
installed
timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited success
as
the
water seems to take the path of least resistance straight down through
the
Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the pot, water is
running
out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I have potted vines in John Innes compost watered by the same method
without
problems.

Has anyone experience of any other peat-free composts?
Would a blended mixture of Bowers and John Innes work?




Why not stand the pots in saucers to a depth you want the water to be?

That way the roots will still be in water even after the water has run
through!

Mike


--
--------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

"Rick Eggleston" wrote
I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have
installed timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited
success as the water seems to take the path of least resistance straight
down through the Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the
pot, water is running out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I have potted vines in John Innes compost watered by the same method
without problems.

Has anyone experience of any other peat-free composts?
Would a blended mixture of Bowers and John Innes work?

A few years ago I did a back to back test of germination and seedling
raising with what was then the best Peat free compost, "New Horizons",
against my normal Levingtons Multipurpose and published the results on my
old allotment web site which unfortunately is now defunct. (due to the
hosting Co starting to charge!)
Basically the peat free was nowhere near as good, germination was slower and
it needed much more fertilizer to get plants to grow, a bit like the
difference between a good heavy loam and a sandy soil. Even with extra TLC
the resultant plants were not as good.
I concluded Peat Free was not a good enough product for me (used mainly for
veg plants).

You could try that water absorbing jelly stuff mixed in the compost next
year or even a John Innes No.3 compost which contains a lot less peat than a
normal multipurpose.

--
Regards
Bob H

This may be a daft suggestion, but what the hey! It sounds like the compost
is not absorbing the water very well - it may have water repellant
properties. I wonder if a spot of washing up liquid in the water acting as a
wetting agent would work? I doubt it would cause any harm, but it just might
work. Perhaps worth doing an experiment with a watering can full of water +
a spot or two of detergent first to see if it gets absorbed any better than
pure rain water. I know manufacturers add detergents as wetting agents to
various products such as miracle grow as well as various sprays so they
settle on leaves without "rolling off".
--
David
.... Email address on website http://www.avisoft.co.uk
.... Blog at http://dlts-french-adventures.blogspot.com/

I'd forget the peat free nonsense, it's just another bit of middle class
hysteria like water filters and organic petrol



"Rick Eggleston" wrote in message
...
I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have
installed timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited
success as the water seems to take the path of least resistance straight
down through the Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the
pot, water is running out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I have potted vines in John Innes compost watered by the same method
without problems.

Has anyone experience of any other peat-free composts?
Would a blended mixture of Bowers and John Innes work?

In message
"Rick Eggleston" wrote:

My system already wets "some" of the roots! Might work with patio plants,
but tomatoes, cucumbers etc need to be able to take in large amounts of food
and water and therefore the whole root system needs to work, not just the
tips.


I have had success with a cucumber standing on a brick in a bowl of water
with an old T shirt as a wick. With a demijon of water upside down it needs
no attention for two weeks at a time. The top of the compost looks very dry
but the plant thrives.
Regards

Paul



-- CTC Right to Ride Representative for Richmond upon Thames

Rick Eggleston writes
I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have installed
timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited success as the
water seems to take the path of least resistance straight down through the
Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the pot, water is running
out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I think you need to ensure the compost is moist all through before
relying on your timed irrigation, and don't let it dry out between
irrigations. I have no problem in water absorption in moist Bowers -
assuming you are talking about 'New Horizon'.


--
Kay

Bob Hobden writes

"Rick Eggleston" wrote
I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have
installed timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited
success as the water seems to take the path of least resistance straight
down through the Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the
pot, water is running out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I have potted vines in John Innes compost watered by the same method
without problems.

Has anyone experience of any other peat-free composts?
Would a blended mixture of Bowers and John Innes work?

A few years ago I did a back to back test of germination and seedling
raising with what was then the best Peat free compost, "New Horizons",
against my normal Levingtons Multipurpose and published the results on my
old allotment web site which unfortunately is now defunct. (due to the
hosting Co starting to charge!)
Basically the peat free was nowhere near as good, germination was slower and
it needed much more fertilizer to get plants to grow, a bit like the
difference between a good heavy loam and a sandy soil. Even with extra TLC
the resultant plants were not as good.
I concluded Peat Free was not a good enough product for me (used mainly for
veg plants).

Might be worth repeating - I've read in several places that peat free
has improved out of all recognition in the past few years.
--
Kay

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

A few years ago I did a back to back test of germination and seedling
raising with what was then the best Peat free compost, "New Horizons",
against my normal Levingtons Multipurpose and published the results on my
old allotment web site which unfortunately is now defunct. (due to the
hosting Co starting to charge!)
Basically the peat free was nowhere near as good, germination was slower
and it needed much more fertilizer to get plants to grow, a bit like the
difference between a good heavy loam and a sandy soil. Even with extra TLC
the resultant plants were not as good.
I concluded Peat Free was not a good enough product for me (used mainly
for veg plants).

You could try that water absorbing jelly stuff mixed in the compost next
year or even a John Innes No.3 compost which contains a lot less peat than
a normal multipurpose.


I've actually found the page so here it is....



Comparison between Levingtons Multipurpose

and J W Bowers "New Horizons" (Peat Free)

Whilst this is not a scientific experiment every effort has been made to
make it as fair and precise as possible a comparison between the two
composts, with all other possible variables between the husbandry of two
lots of seeds being kept to as near zero as possible.

PURCHASE OF COMPOSTS.....

A 75ltr bag of both Levingtons Multipurpose Compost (Peat Based) and J W
Bowers "New Horizons" (Peat Free) were purchased from Notcutts GC, Laleham
Road, Staines, Middlesex. on Tuesday 17th April 2001. Levingtons cost £4.99;
J W Bowers cost £5.99.

INITIAL REACTION.....

The peat free "New Horizons" was much more coarse textured than the
Levingtons and included a few bits of stick and wood that had not finished
composting and that had not been sieved out during manufacture. These I
removed by hand. The Levingtons peat based compost needed some rubbing
through to break up some of the compacted lumps. The "New Horizons" had a
distinctive "compost" smell.

PLANTING INFORMATION.....

On Wednesday 18th April 2001 (Day 0) the following seeds were
planted...............

Brussels Sprout.....

Trafalgar (T&M) and Icarus (T&M)

Chillies.....

Thai Dragon (T&M) and Cayenne Type (Own Seed)

Aubergines.....

Black Enorma F.1 (T&M)

Tomatoes.....

Roma Improved (Marshalls); Brigade (T&M); Pannovy (T&M);
Tigerella (Kings); Vicki (Marshalls)

Seeds were planted directly (to avoid any variation caused during pricking
out) in 5inch Rootrainers, sometimes two to a cell, with each 32 cell tray
being filled half and half with each compost i.e. 16 cells of New Horizons
and 16 of Levingtons. Half of each seed total was planted in each compost in
the same tray to eliminate variations in husbandry. Every effort was made to
ensure each seed was planted to the same depth. Other than the Chillies and
Aubergines which were kept on a top shelf initially, the trays were kept
side by side on the bench, all in a small acrylic glazed lean-to greenhouse
heated to a minimum of 50°F at the start (little mistake!) increased to 60°F
after 5 days with rises during the day to 85°F maximum depending on outside
temperature, wind and sun. Rainwater at greenhouse temperature used
throughout.

The tray containing the Brussels Sprout plants was moved to a frost free but
cool greenhouse on Day 15 to start the hardening off process and to avoid
them getting too "leggy".

Trays were watered with a fine rose just before counting which took place at
approx. 18.00 hours daily, even the slightest sign of germination/plant
growth above the compost was counted.

RESULTS.....

The table below shows the total number of seeds planted under each name,
then the days to signs of germination and total number of germinated seed
seen daily, cumulative. (Planting day was Day 0)

Levingtons results first then "New Horizons".

Trafalgar Icarus Thai Dragon Cayenne Black Enorma Roma Brigade Pannovy
Tigerella Vicki
Total

seeds
32 30 32 16 16 32 22 10 24
4**
Day 1 -/-
-/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/-
-/-
2 -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/-
-/- -/- -/-
3 -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/-
-/- -/- -/-
4 -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/-
-/- -/- -/-
5 7/7
2 -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/-
6 9/8
-/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/-
7 9/9
-/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/-
8 9/12 14/10 -/- -/- -/- 7/- -/-
1/- -/- 1/-
9 10/13 14/10 -/- -/- -/- 13/8 2/-
4/1 1/- 1/-
10 10/13 14/11 -/- -/- -/- 16/14 6/5
5/5 4/2 1/-
11 10/14 15/12 1/1 -/- 1/1 16/14 8/9
5/5 9/9 1/-
12 10/14 15/12 5/2 1/3 1/1 16/14 8/10
5/5 11/10 1/-
13 10/14 15/12 7/5 4/4 4/3 16/14 8/10
5/5 11/10 1/-
14 10/14 15/12 8/7 7/5 5/5 16/14 8/10
5/5 11/11 1/-
15 10/14 15/12 9/9 7/6 5/6 16/15 8/10
5/5 11/11 1/-
16 10/14 15/12 9/10 7/6 5/6 16/15 8/10
5/5 11/11 1/-
17 10/14 15/12 9/12 7/6 6/6 16/15 8/10
5/5 11/11 1/-
18 10/14 15/12 9/12 7/6 6/6 16/15 8/10
5/5 11/11 1/-
19 10/14 15/12 9/12 7/6 6/6 16/15 8/10
5/5 11/11 1/-
20 10/14 15/12 9/12 7/6 6/6 16/15 8/10
5/5 11/11 1/-
21 10/14 15/12 9/12 7/6 6/6 16/15 8/10
5/5 11/11 1/-

Ger.

Rate
75% 90% 65% 81% 75% 97% 82% 100% 92%
25%



** total No. of free "experimental" seeds in the packet. (Excellent heavy
cropping mini-plum type)

I have included the germination rates for each seed which is interesting but
from too small a sample to be scientifically meaningful.

Observations.....

It was easily noticeable by the 12th day or even earlier, that the first
seedlings to germinate, the Brussel Sprouts, were growing much better in the
Levingtons compost, plants were stronger, taller, looked greener and
altogether more healthy than the slightly yellow looking and smaller plants
in the "New Horizons". Whilst the other seedlings did not show this
difference at first it did become very noticeable by the end of the trial,
indeed some of the tomatoes had grown twice the height in the Levingtons.

CONCLUSION.....

There does not appear to be any difference in germination rates overall
between the two composts but it was noticeable that the seeds in the peat
free "New Horizons" did tend to germinate a little later than those in the
Levingtons, this is not normally much of a problem.

The J W Bowers "New Horizons" despite being 20% dearer obviously does not
contain the fertilizer that the Levingtons does, or the compost is locking
it up as it continues to break down. This compost does therefore need to be
watered with a liquid feed soon after germination. (suggest half strength)

Going "Peat Free" is more expensive and requires more use of fertilizer to
even approach the quality of plants grown in the peat based product.

Completed 9th May 2001

by Bob Hobden

P.S. If you are wondering why I should start Brassicas in the Greenhouse
instead of a seed bed, we suffer with such bad Flea Beetle on our allotments
that on a seed bed the seedlings are totally destroyed, and even with
cloches for protection they get terribly damaged.



BobH

My thanks to all of you who have given sensible answers. The yellow
appearance of the plants also concurs with my own experience. For those of
you who have not seen New Horizon, it is very coarse, being essentially old
sawdust, and "wetting" is actually easier than with Peat, but it drains
extremely quickly and does not suck water up from below. During the hot
spell twice a day watering has been necessary, hence the need for an
irrigator.

And as for Oxymel, to those of us who having been ignoring environmental
problems for years, but have finally realised that the evidence is
irrefutible, it is a great relief to hear that our concerns are merely a
figment of a middle class imagination!

--
Best Regards,

Rick

"Rick Eggleston" wrote in message
...
I have grown tomatoes, cucumbers and melons for the first time in pots with
Bowers peat-free compost. As the Bowers dries out quickly, I have
installed timed irrigation from rainwater butts. This has had limited
success as the water seems to take the path of least resistance straight
down through the Bowers. Even using a ring of micro-soaker hose in the
pot, water is running out the bottom before the compost is full soaked.

I have potted vines in John Innes compost watered by the same method
without problems.

Has anyone experience of any other peat-free composts?
Would a blended mixture of Bowers and John Innes work?

"Rick Eggleston" wrote in message
...
My thanks to all of you who have given sensible answers. The yellow
appearance of the plants also concurs with my own experience. For those
of
you who have not seen New Horizon, it is very coarse, being essentially
old
sawdust, and "wetting" is actually easier than with Peat, but it drains
extremely quickly and does not suck water up from below. During the hot
spell twice a day watering has been necessary, hence the need for an
irrigator.

snip --
Best Regards,

Rick


We use this same compost on the nursery, we have found most of our plants
actually grow better in it than peat but some plant groups were a disaster
like hardy geranium and have had to mix our own for those.
We always use a very heavy dose of slow release fertilizer and do no rely on
what ever is in the bag. We also use new horizon in all our big pots outside
and water once per day with thirsty plants being stood on shallow saucers.
Our main problems using NH were the change over, i.e. adjusting the way we
grew/watered, now we are used to it we get better results and much less
winter losses. Just need someone to tell us whether we can eat the fungi
that sometimes appear in the pots!
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

Charlie Pridham writes
We use this same compost on the nursery, we have found most of our
plants actually grow better in it than peat but some plant groups were
a disaster like hardy geranium and have had to mix our own for those.
We always use a very heavy dose of slow release fertilizer and do no
rely on what ever is in the bag. We also use new horizon in all our big
pots outside and water once per day with thirsty plants being stood on
shallow saucers. Our main problems using NH were the change over, i.e.
adjusting the way we grew/watered, now we are used to it we get better
results and much less winter losses.

I think it's also improved over the years.

Just need someone to tell us whether we can eat the fungi that
sometimes appear in the pots!

Pretty, aren't they :-)
--
Kay