Pam Moore wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:18:10 +0100, Michael Calwell fac@fac wrote:


Davy wrote:


The other is a tree, has oval pointed fine-toothed leaves about 6cm long.
The fruits are bright yellow, twice the size of a cherry. I haven't tried
tasting these.


Mirabella plums?


Sounds like the description of the Miralbelles I have had in France.
Delicious. I brought some stones home and have a few small plants on
my allotment. In Switzerland recently, the hotel had bowls of tinned
fruit at breakfast and I think these were the same. Also delicious!

Pam in Bristol


Pick them now - soon will be too late.

On 15 Sep 2005 08:36:24 -0700, "Cat(h)" wrote:


Chris Hogg wrote:

Quote from http://www.aboutmead.com/resources/m...9/12-01-99.txt

"Apple seeds average around 0.6 mg hydrogen cyanide (HCN) per gram of
dry seed. Since the lethal dose of HCN is estimated to be about 50 mg,
you need around 85 grams (3 ounces) of dry seeds. This is around half
a cup"

Whether the figures are correct, and whether it takes 40 apple pips to
half-fill a cup, I don't know, but it does suggest that eating a
particularly large number could be lethal.

However, seeds (and leaves) of many prunus species (almonds are the
obvious example) and other rosaceae (such as apples, as here) contain
cyanide precursors. It's what gives almonds their distinct flavour.
But, as with apple pips, you do have to eat rather a lot to be at
risk.



Gasp! I'm one of those apple fiends who eats around 3 to 4 apples each
day pips and all - first of the day chopped up in morning porridge -
(only uneaten residue for compost heap being the little stem).
Is the effect of the HCN cumulative?
Could it explain all sorts of ermm things?
Seriously... should I core my apples?

Cat(h)
The world swirls...

If you're still alive and not posting from 'the other side', I
wouldn't give it another thought. OTOH, if you are on 'the other
side', it's too late! :-)


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:41:22 GMT, Pam Moore
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:12:28 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

Don't eat the kernels!

So what is kirsch made from? I thought it was the cherry kernels.

Pam in Bristol

Pam, that's not a quote from me, but from DT. Can't help with the
kirsch anyway.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

In article ,
Malcolm wrote:
In article , Jaques
d'Alltrades writes

I had a teacher at school, when I was about 10 or 11, who said that
apple pips were the commonest cause of appendicitis and that we should
either spit them out or chew them up!

Old wives' tale.

The teacher was male(1).

(1) and heterosexual :-)

Old wives come in all ages and sexes.

Half a cup sounds plausible - 40 pips doesn't. I think that you could
probably kill yourself by adding plum kernels to muesli, but it would
make it very bitter.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Half a cup sounds plausible - 40 pips doesn't. I think that you could
probably kill yourself by adding plum kernels to muesli, but it would
make it very bitter.

When I make plum, damson or apricot jam I always add the kernels to it -
but then, HCN is thermolabile.

--

,,,
}»«üüüü(@
´ ´

In article ,
Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie wrote:
The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Half a cup sounds plausible - 40 pips doesn't. I think that you could
probably kill yourself by adding plum kernels to muesli, but it would
make it very bitter.

When I make plum, damson or apricot jam I always add the kernels to it -
but then, HCN is thermolabile.

Yes. I have never worked out exactly what happens to the cyanide,
and what forms it comes in (before and after), but I believe that
cooking is pretty effective at reducing its toxicity.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Malcolm writes:
|
| Half a cup sounds plausible - 40 pips doesn't. I think that you could
| probably kill yourself by adding plum kernels to muesli, but it would
| make it very bitter.
|
| When I make plum, damson or apricot jam I always add the kernels to it -
| but then, HCN is thermolabile.
|
| Yes. I have never worked out exactly what happens to the cyanide,
| and what forms it comes in (before and after), but I believe that
| cooking is pretty effective at reducing its toxicity.
|
| As every cook since Mrs Beeton, and probably for years before her, has
| been recommending the adding of kernels to plum jam, it can't be that
| toxic!

Her predecessors, and probably her (I should have to check), also
recommended making pickles in untinned copper vessels to produce
a bright green colour. Many of them also recommended sweetening
fermentable preserves with sugar of lead (lead acetate), which
has the advantage that it doesn't ferment.

Cooked plum kernels can't be all that toxic, but uncooked ones
may well be fairly lethal in quantity. As someone pointed out,
cyanide has the property that sub-lethal doses are completely
harmless once the immediate symptoms have passed.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 21/9/05 9:42 am, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:

In article ,
Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie wrote:
The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Half a cup sounds plausible - 40 pips doesn't. I think that you could
probably kill yourself by adding plum kernels to muesli, but it would
make it very bitter.

When I make plum, damson or apricot jam I always add the kernels to it -
but then, HCN is thermolabile.

Yes. I have never worked out exactly what happens to the cyanide,
and what forms it comes in (before and after), but I believe that
cooking is pretty effective at reducing its toxicity.

I was away from school the week we did chemistry but presumably this is akin
to what happens to red kidney beans - very dangerous if not cooked for long
enough, minimum of 20 mins. boiling etc. NB, I said akin, not the same as!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
Malcolm writes:

| As every cook since Mrs Beeton, and probably for years before her, has
| been recommending the adding of kernels to plum jam, it can't be that
| toxic!

Her predecessors, and probably her (I should have to check), also
recommended making pickles in untinned copper vessels to produce
a bright green colour.

Possibly - but then she didn't write her recipes, and probably tried
very few of them. Thet were mainly sent in by readers of the magazine
which bore her name (published by Mr. Beeton).

Many of the published recipes are pure spoof, and I hope the wags who
sent them in are being roasted down under [1] for all the gallons of
wasted cream, butter, eggs, etc..

Many of them also recommended sweetening
fermentable preserves with sugar of lead (lead acetate), which
has the advantage that it doesn't ferment.

Yes, it was the practice to sweeten fortified wines with sugar of lead.
Some suggest that this was the cause of George III's recurring
'madness', as he consumed large quantities of the stuff.

Cooked plum kernels can't be all that toxic, but uncooked ones
may well be fairly lethal in quantity. As someone pointed out,
cyanide has the property that sub-lethal doses are completely
harmless once the immediate symptoms have passed.

However, I'll pass on trying it out.

[1] You can read 'down under' how you will - there's not much difference.

Allegedly.

--

,,,
}»«üüüü(@
´ ´

In article ,
Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie writes:
|
| | As every cook since Mrs Beeton, and probably for years before her, has
| | been recommending the adding of kernels to plum jam, it can't be that
| | toxic!
|
| Her predecessors, and probably her (I should have to check), also
| recommended making pickles in untinned copper vessels to produce
| a bright green colour.
|
| Possibly - but then she didn't write her recipes, and probably tried
| very few of them. Thet were mainly sent in by readers of the magazine
| which bore her name (published by Mr. Beeton).

It was standard practice. What I was pointing out is that such
long-standing usage doesn't provide any evidence of harmlessness.

| Many of the published recipes are pure spoof, and I hope the wags who
| sent them in are being roasted down under [1] for all the gallons of
| wasted cream, butter, eggs, etc..

Most of them are very practical - in fact, I don't know of any
that aren't. You may not be a cholesterolic, but many people
were then, and there are some of us who still are :-)

Can you give the number[*] of one that you regard as pure spoof?
[*] Original edition. Or other identification.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

| Many of the published recipes are pure spoof, and I hope the wags who
| sent them in are being roasted down under [1] for all the gallons of
| wasted cream, butter, eggs, etc..

Most of them are very practical - in fact, I don't know of any
that aren't. You may not be a cholesterolic, but many people
were then, and there are some of us who still are :-)

No, most of the 'joke' ones were removed a *LONG* time ago.

Can you give the number[*] of one that you regard as pure spoof?

[*] Original edition. Or other identification.

No, I haven't got my original one any longer - some lucky hooter's got it.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie wrote:
The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
Malcolm writes:

As every cook since Mrs Beeton, and probably for years before
her,
has been recommending the adding of kernels to plum jam, it
can't
be that toxic!

To be fair, Isabella said you could add a _few_ kernels.

Her predecessors, and probably her (I should have to check), also
recommended making pickles in untinned copper vessels to produce
a bright green colour.

No, just checked the 1861 edition (I hasten to add, lest any
fellow-bibliophile plan a burglary, that I have only the facsimile),
and on page 32 she says "Copper utensils should never be used in the
kitchen unless tinned, and the utmost care should be taken, not to
let the tin be rubbed off. If by any chance this should occur, have
it replaced before the vessel is again brought into use." She's quite
firm on that page and another that food mustn't, once cooked, be left
in these pans. The 1906 edition (not, of course, by Beeton herself)
recommends wrought steel rather than tinned copper, citing the
danger.

Possibly - but then she didn't write her recipes, and probably
tried
very few of them. Thet were mainly sent in by readers of the
magazine
which bore her name (published by Mr. Beeton).

This is true, though I don't know the proportions.

Many of the published recipes are pure spoof, and I hope the wags
who
sent them in are being roasted down under [1] for all the gallons
of
wasted cream, butter, eggs, etc..

Confirming what Nick says downthread, the recipes I've looked into do
seem to work, though some are distinctly odd (check out the recipe
for mango chutney, which revealed that the great woman not only
couldn't spell "chutney", but also doesn't seem to have known what a
mango was).
[...]

[1] You can read 'down under' how you will - there's not much
difference.

Allegedly.

Glad you put that "allegedly" in, mate! Just because you lot
deservedly regained the Cinders, there's no need to get uppity.

--
Mike.

In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote:

Many of the published recipes are pure spoof, and I hope the wags
who
sent them in are being roasted down under [1] for all the gallons
of
wasted cream, butter, eggs, etc..

Confirming what Nick says downthread, the recipes I've looked into do
seem to work, though some are distinctly odd (check out the recipe
for mango chutney, which revealed that the great woman not only
couldn't spell "chutney", but also doesn't seem to have known what a
mango was).

I can believe the latter, but exactly why do you feel that there
is a correct spelling of chatni in Roman letters? Transliterating
Hindi (I think) to English is harder than transliterating Russian
(as in Tsebysef and over 200 variants) :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
Confirming what Nick says downthread, the recipes I've looked into
do
seem to work, though some are distinctly odd (check out the recipe
for mango chutney, which revealed that the great woman not only
couldn't spell "chutney", but also doesn't seem to have known what
a
mango was).

I can believe the latter, but exactly why do you feel that there
is a correct spelling of chatni in Roman letters? Transliterating
Hindi (I think) to English is harder than transliterating Russian
(as in Tsebysef and over 200 variants) :-)

Not even the most alcohol-adultery-and-altitude-sodden Victorian
sahib would have qualified for the epithet "pukka" had he publicly
used the spelling "chetney". The lofty OED doesn't dignify it with a
mention, even to condemn it as a solecism.

The offending recipe -- which I have made, in modestly scaled-down
quantity, and found very good -- calls for 30 large unripe sour
apples with, among other things (but no mangoes), 3/4 lb powdered
ginger and 1/4 lb dried chillies. I don't generally approve of apple
chutney, but after that, I found it no surprise that the Victorians
conquered the entire bloody planet.

--
Mike.

The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words:

I can believe the latter, but exactly why do you feel that there
is a correct spelling of chatni in Roman letters? Transliterating
Hindi (I think) to English is harder than transliterating Russian
(as in Tsebysef and over 200 variants) :-)

Not even the most alcohol-adultery-and-altitude-sodden Victorian
sahib would have qualified for the epithet "pukka" had he publicly
used the spelling "chetney". The lofty OED doesn't dignify it with a
mention, even to condemn it as a solecism.

A Hindi-speaking friend states it is pronounced (more-or-less) 'catney'.
But the Indian sub-continent is rather large, and if words can change
their sounds from region to region in this country, how much more so
might they do so there.

The offending recipe -- which I have made, in modestly scaled-down
quantity, and found very good -- calls for 30 large unripe sour
apples with, among other things (but no mangoes), 3/4 lb powdered
ginger and 1/4 lb dried chillies. I don't generally approve of apple
chutney, but after that, I found it no surprise that the Victorians
conquered the entire bloody planet.

I have visions of artillery firing salvos of Lady Cardigan's Green
Tomato Surprise...

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/