Hi,

I have a very old looking sage plant in my incredibly neglected (rental!)
garden.

It's largely overshadowed by some horrible shrub and looks pretty miserable,
with a huge mass of long, tangled woody stems and just a few sprigs of
foliage at the ends. I'd like to help it - it smells wonderful - is there
anything I can do?

with thanks...

In article ,
smeckler wrote:

I have a very old looking sage plant in my incredibly neglected (rental!)
garden.

It's largely overshadowed by some horrible shrub and looks pretty miserable,
with a huge mass of long, tangled woody stems and just a few sprigs of
foliage at the ends. I'd like to help it - it smells wonderful - is there
anything I can do?

No. Anything you try will probably kill it. Sow some seed in a
pot of well-drained compost, and you will get a decent sized pot
plant this year and a large one next. And, of course, you can
put it in the soil when convenient. Sage is not a long-lived plant
in most of the UK, because it isn't desperately keen on the wet.

Most of the Mediterranean labiates are a bit like that (thyme,
marjoram, rosemary etc.)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

In article ,
smeckler wrote:

I have a very old looking sage plant in my incredibly neglected (rental!)
garden.

It's largely overshadowed by some horrible shrub and looks pretty
miserable,
with a huge mass of long, tangled woody stems and just a few sprigs of
foliage at the ends. I'd like to help it - it smells wonderful - is there
anything I can do?

No. Anything you try will probably kill it. Sow some seed in a
pot of well-drained compost, and you will get a decent sized pot
plant this year and a large one next. And, of course, you can
put it in the soil when convenient. Sage is not a long-lived plant
in most of the UK, because it isn't desperately keen on the wet.

However, it's extremely easy to grow from cuttings or layers; so I
suggest the OP tries both. Do the layers into pots. For cuttings, just
rip them off, stick in the soil where you want to have plants, and some
of them are sure to take.

Janet.

'smeckler',

Try some cuttings as per this site:

http://www.gel2root.com/index.cfm/fu...19/species/125

Regards,
Emrys Davies.



"smeckler" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have a very old looking sage plant in my incredibly neglected
(rental!)
garden.

It's largely overshadowed by some horrible shrub and looks pretty
miserable,
with a huge mass of long, tangled woody stems and just a few sprigs of
foliage at the ends. I'd like to help it - it smells wonderful - is
there
anything I can do?

with thanks...

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:41:08 -0000, smeckler wrote:

I have a very old looking sage plant in my incredibly neglected (rental!)
garden.

It's largely overshadowed by some horrible shrub and looks pretty miserable,
with a huge mass of long, tangled woody stems and just a few sprigs of
foliage at the ends. I'd like to help it - it smells wonderful - is there
anything I can do?

Cut back the overshadowing horrible so your sage gets more sun.
Then cut the sage itself back *hard* -- right to the base of the
stems.

As insurance, transform the sage prunings into cuttings (iow,
just take the tips off, a couple of inches of stem and the
terminal leaves) and root them. They're dead easy to root. In
fact, they may root perfectly well simply dibbled into likely
spots.


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

In article ,
(Rodger Whitlock) writes:
|
| Cut back the overshadowing horrible so your sage gets more sun.
| Then cut the sage itself back *hard* -- right to the base of the
| stems.

My experience is that works with young sage, but tends to kill
old and overgrown sage. Which isn't a big deal, as such plants
need replacing anyway.

| As insurance, transform the sage prunings into cuttings (iow,
| just take the tips off, a couple of inches of stem and the
| terminal leaves) and root them. They're dead easy to root. In
| fact, they may root perfectly well simply dibbled into likely
| spots.

A good point, except that I would regard it as more the primary
reason for cutting it back! I haven't timed sage from cuttings
and sage from seed, but both are pretty quick. Cuttings are
probably faster.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

Sage is not a long-lived plant
in most of the UK, because it isn't desperately keen on the wet.

I've got a straggly one that's ten years old.
--
Jane Lumley

In article ,
Jane Lumley wrote:
Sage is not a long-lived plant
in most of the UK, because it isn't desperately keen on the wet.

I've got a straggly one that's ten years old.

That is not a long time by the standards of woody plants. One in a
neglected garden could easily be that old, and about to peg out.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

In article , Nick Maclaren
wrote:

In article ,
smeckler wrote:

I have a very old looking sage plant in my incredibly neglected (rental!)
garden.

It's largely overshadowed by some horrible shrub and looks pretty miserable,
with a huge mass of long, tangled woody stems and just a few sprigs of
foliage at the ends. I'd like to help it - it smells wonderful - is there
anything I can do?

No. Anything you try will probably kill it.

Oh dear. I've just cut one back hard. If it survives I'll let you know.
But I have another, in a pot (less happy, inevitably) and the one I've
cut back was getting horribly straggly.

Does the cutting back=killing apply to Rosemary & thyme too?

Lazarus

On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:04:41 +0000, Lazarus Cooke wrote:

Does the cutting back=killing apply to Rosemary & thyme too?

The one plant that really gets subjected to this kind of "don't
cut back" propaganda is lavender. All the authorities say not to
cut lavender back into old wood. However, I've seen very old
lavender bushes hacked back ruthlessly to mere stubs in late
winter and come back very nicely. At the very least, this warning
is not always true.

Most of these subshrubby labiates need the odd hacking back if
they are to look at all tidy, rather like a lot of penstemon
species.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

In article ,
Rodger Whitlock wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:04:41 +0000, Lazarus Cooke wrote:

Does the cutting back=killing apply to Rosemary & thyme too?

The one plant that really gets subjected to this kind of "don't
cut back" propaganda is lavender. All the authorities say not to
cut lavender back into old wood. However, I've seen very old
lavender bushes hacked back ruthlessly to mere stubs in late
winter and come back very nicely. At the very least, this warning
is not always true.

I may have been confusing. What I was saying is that, if you have an
OLD plant and you cut it back to its OLDEST wood, it will probably
give up the ghost or at least fail to regrow properly. But, as I
said, at worst you won't lose much - because, if it dies, it was
about to drop dead anyway - and because you can regrow a new plant
very quickly.

But I certainly am not disagreeing with the "cut them back hard"
approach, which is the best way to treat them. Provided that they
are not ancient, all of those plants can take cutting back very hard.

In the position of someone with a really only and straggly sage,
rosemary, thyme or winter savory plant, I would cut it back HARD,
too. But I would also propagate it, because that is a kill or cure
solution.

Most of these subshrubby labiates need the odd hacking back if
they are to look at all tidy, rather like a lot of penstemon
species.

Yes, indeed. My only reservation is my experience is that very
old and neglected plants are beyond hope, and are best propagated
and replaced.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

In article , Rodger Whitlock
writes
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:04:41 +0000, Lazarus Cooke wrote:

Does the cutting back=killing apply to Rosemary & thyme too?

The one plant that really gets subjected to this kind of "don't
cut back" propaganda is lavender. All the authorities say not to
cut lavender back into old wood. However, I've seen very old
lavender bushes hacked back ruthlessly to mere stubs in late
winter and come back very nicely. At the very least, this warning
is not always true.

But it *is* sometimes true - I have seen my neighbour put paid to his
entire lavender hedge like this!

(It regrew from seedlings within a couple of years)
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/