Hi there

I have posted this in england.rec.gardening also, Im not sure if thats
allowed but Im hedging (scuse the pun) my bets

Im living in Ireland in the South East midlands. I have quite a bit of land,
almost an acre and mostly in grass and shrubs, I have young children so most
of the grass is used for their play areas. I have 6 chickens also who roam
freely and reward me daily with half a dozen eggs. I have a plot nicely
isolated from the childrens area and surrounded on two sides by bramble
ditch, one side by a wall and one side by a variety of shrubs about 5ft
high...eg laurel etc. I would like to start a vegetable garden here. Im not
overly ambitious having learned through the years that this generally leads
to disappointment so I'd like to start off with some "easy" things. The plot
Im hoping to cultivate is about 30ft sq. It was dug over in October last
year and left to lie for the winter and the hens have (hopefully) done their
work of taking out grubs and parasites etc. I begun digging it again this
week, we've had a lot of rain and the soil is very heavy, not waterlogged
just heavy. Im not keen on the idea of pestisides as I have my own water
well in this part of the garden, plus chickens, cats,dogs and kids! Im not
sure what to plant or even what kind of soil I have, I do know that our
water is very hard lots of limescale if this is any help. Im nervous
starting this project yet dying to get stuck in....the one thing I don't
want to happen is that I end up with 60 cabbages and nothing else...Any help
from the group would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance
Shannie (Ireland)

In article , shannie
writes
Hi there

I have posted this in england.rec.gardening also, Im not sure if thats
allowed but Im hedging (scuse the pun) my bets

Im living in Ireland in the South East midlands. I have quite a bit of land,
almost an acre and mostly in grass and shrubs, I have young children so most
of the grass is used for their play areas. I have 6 chickens also who roam
freely and reward me daily with half a dozen eggs.

6 eggs daily, from 6 free range chickens at this time of the year???

Must be the luck of the Irish!

Sorry, but "I think not" I had 400 under controlled environment and
didn't get that result.

Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one
pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside,
thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting GERONIMO!

Yep, it's a fact, surprised the hell out of me too. Got them begining of
April last year, they started laying about a fortnight after they arrived
and haven't stopped since. I read all about them in books and on the net and
expected them to stop laying for the winter, or at least for the shorter
days, but no...they have laid consistantly every day, every one of them
without a break.
"Mike" wrote in message
...
In article , shannie
writes
Hi there

I have posted this in england.rec.gardening also, Im not sure if thats
allowed but Im hedging (scuse the pun) my bets

Im living in Ireland in the South East midlands. I have quite a bit of
land,
almost an acre and mostly in grass and shrubs, I have young children so
most
of the grass is used for their play areas. I have 6 chickens also who
roam
freely and reward me daily with half a dozen eggs.

6 eggs daily, from 6 free range chickens at this time of the year???

Must be the luck of the Irish!

Sorry, but "I think not" I had 400 under controlled environment and
didn't get that result.

Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in one
pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside,
thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting GERONIMO!

Like I said, luck of the Irish!!

As a matter of interest, what are they? No idea if they are still around
but I was running Thornbers 404's and 606's, but that was in the mid to
late 60's.

I did apply for planning permission to put up Chicken Houses with runs
on a piece of land I had when in Leicester, but the neighbours
complained and objected to the Planning Permission so I sold it to a
builder who put 2 blocks of flats on it.

Mike



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.collingwoodassoc.org.uk/ Reunion. Chatham May 30th - June 2nd

Castle Class Corvettes Assn. Reunion October 2003 Isle of Wight.
National Service (RAF) Association reunion. Nov 2003 Scarborough.

They are Rhode Island Reds. I knew absolutely nothing about them, they were
a gift. When they arrived I didn't even have anywhere to house them, so I
had to do some very fast learning. I never know if Im doing it right, but
from what you say and others too I must be doing something right. They have
six cats who constantly steal their food and beds so maybe they think they
have something to prove..lol...
"Mike" wrote in message
...
Like I said, luck of the Irish!!

As a matter of interest, what are they? No idea if they are still around
but I was running Thornbers 404's and 606's, but that was in the mid to
late 60's.

I did apply for planning permission to put up Chicken Houses with runs
on a piece of land I had when in Leicester, but the neighbours
complained and objected to the Planning Permission so I sold it to a
builder who put 2 blocks of flats on it.

Mike



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
http://www.collingwoodassoc.org.uk/ Reunion. Chatham May 30th - June 2nd

Castle Class Corvettes Assn. Reunion October 2003 Isle of Wight.
National Service (RAF) Association reunion. Nov 2003 Scarborough.

I found it necessary to fence out the hens from the veg patch;
otherwise they mistake the seedbed tilth for a purpose built dustbath
area :-(. But the good news is, that once you have the fence in place,
you can also pen them inside to clean up pests and weeds and scratch
over the soil surface, before you start.

Very easy veg to start with are potatoes (sounds mundane, but fresh
young potatoes straight from the soil taste quite unlike any from
shops); broad and runner beans, lettuce cabbage radish and herbs. If the
patch is warm and sunny, courgettes are easy too. The packets will tell
you what to do and when; it's much easier than you imagine. Buy seed
potatoes from a garden centre to get the healthiest stock, don't be
tempted to use supermarket leftovers. Rhubarb, blackcurrants and
strawberries are also very easy and are usually started from plants not
seed.

Start a compost heap now so that next year, you'll be able to fertilize
your veg patch naturally and build up its fertility year on year. Hen
pooh from their night coop is an excellent compost heap ingredient.

Janet.

Wonderful advise there Janet, thank you. May I ask you one more
thing?...I've been planning this for a long while now and bought a compost
bin earlier this year, one of the big black plastic one's with a chute at
the front and a lid on top. I've been putting in household veg waste, waste
from the rabbit hutch and straw and chicken droppings from the hen house
etc. It doesn't seem to be diminishing any way fast though and is now almost
full. Should I get another one and start that? How will I know when it's
ready to use? All the stuff in it looks pretty much as it did when it went
in, a little withered but definately not rotten.
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...

I found it necessary to fence out the hens from the veg patch;
otherwise they mistake the seedbed tilth for a purpose built dustbath
area :-(. But the good news is, that once you have the fence in place,
you can also pen them inside to clean up pests and weeds and scratch
over the soil surface, before you start.

Very easy veg to start with are potatoes (sounds mundane, but fresh
young potatoes straight from the soil taste quite unlike any from
shops); broad and runner beans, lettuce cabbage radish and herbs. If the
patch is warm and sunny, courgettes are easy too. The packets will tell
you what to do and when; it's much easier than you imagine. Buy seed
potatoes from a garden centre to get the healthiest stock, don't be
tempted to use supermarket leftovers. Rhubarb, blackcurrants and
strawberries are also very easy and are usually started from plants not
seed.

Start a compost heap now so that next year, you'll be able to fertilize
your veg patch naturally and build up its fertility year on year. Hen
pooh from their night coop is an excellent compost heap ingredient.

Janet.

In message , shannie
writes
Hi there

I have posted this in england.rec.gardening also, Im not sure if thats
allowed but Im hedging (scuse the pun) my bets

Im living in Ireland in the South East midlands. I have quite a bit of land,
almost an acre and mostly in grass and shrubs, I have young children so most
of the grass is used for their play areas. I have 6 chickens also who roam
freely and reward me daily with half a dozen eggs. I have a plot nicely
isolated from the childrens area and surrounded on two sides by bramble
ditch, one side by a wall and one side by a variety of shrubs about 5ft
high...eg laurel etc. I would like to start a vegetable garden here. Im not
overly ambitious having learned through the years that this generally leads
to disappointment so I'd like to start off with some "easy" things. The plot
Im hoping to cultivate is about 30ft sq. It was dug over in October last
year and left to lie for the winter and the hens have (hopefully) done their
work of taking out grubs and parasites etc. I begun digging it again this
week, we've had a lot of rain and the soil is very heavy, not waterlogged
just heavy. Im not keen on the idea of pestisides as I have my own water
well in this part of the garden, plus chickens, cats,dogs and kids! Im not
sure what to plant or even what kind of soil I have, I do know that our
water is very hard lots of limescale if this is any help. Im nervous
starting this project yet dying to get stuck in....the one thing I don't
want to happen is that I end up with 60 cabbages and nothing else...Any help
from the group would be most welcome.

Adjacent shrubs and trees aren't too good - they take up the nutrients
and water from the veggies.

Heavy soil can be broken up with a season of potatoes.

Root crops (carrots, turnips, swedes, beetroot etc) don't like recently
manured soil, peas and beans do. Greens are in the middle. So the best
plan is to rotate. Divide you plot into 3. Manure one plot and plant
peas and beans. Next year use that plot for greens. The year after use
it for potatoes.

Its a good idea with new plots to do a soil test (a kit will cost you
about a tenner in the UK) and allow you to do 6 tests - but make sure
you use distilled or rain water.. The instructions should tell you how
to correct for deficiencies.
--
Tony Morgan

What vegetables do you enjoy eating?

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com

In article ,
(shannie) wrote:

bought a compost bin earlier this year,
....
All the stuff in it looks pretty much as it did when it
went in, a little withered but definately not rotten.

two months of winter weather won't see much compost heap activity. The
simple answer is to leave it until next year. The more complicated
answer is to do a lot of speeding up tricks and use it this autumn.

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com

"shannie" wrote in message
Wonderful advise there Janet, thank you. May I ask you one more
thing?...I've been planning this for a long while now and bought a compost
bin earlier this year, one of the big black plastic one's with a chute at
the front and a lid on top. I've been putting in household veg waste,
waste
from the rabbit hutch and straw and chicken droppings from the hen house
etc. It doesn't seem to be diminishing any way fast though and is now
almost
full. Should I get another one and start that? How will I know when it's
ready to use? All the stuff in it looks pretty much as it did when it went
in, a little withered but definately not rotten.

We found that those plastic bins can dry out easily and then nothing happens
(except an ants nest!), so we make sure there is enough moisture in the
bins. When tipping the green waste bucket into the composter I always wash
it out and pour that into the bin too. I feel you can't overwater it. No
matter how much waste I put in it it's never more than two thirds full after
a few days.

--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

"shannie" wrote in message
...

Im living in Ireland in the South East midlands. I have quite a bit of
land,
almost an acre and mostly in grass and shrubs...

Hi Shannie
I'm from the north of Ireland and like you started off with about an acre of
pasture which over ten years my wife & I turned into a reasonable garden
(still on-going). I started growing vegetables the first year we moved in
and have been doing so organically ever since. The main things I've learnt
a
PESTS
Most important for organic growing - buy some fine mesh (eg Enviromesh) to
protect your carrots & cabbage family from pests. Cabbage white
caterpillars, cabbage root fly and carrot fly will almost certainly attack
these crops if you don't spray and picking caterpillars from cabbage is no
fun. Put the mesh on when you sow the seeds if possible. Cheap hoops to
support the mesh can be made from plastic piping. I use raised beds to make
covering easier.
Garden fleece does the same job and gives more protection from cold but cuts
down light and can't be kept on too long as plants become soft & straggly.
COMPOST
You probably need a big compost heap(s). I built mine from wooden pallets
and fence posts, the commercial bins are too small for a garden your size.
Start with one using 4 wooden pallets & you can easily add more as needed. I
try and turn the compost once per pile (not always though because I'm lazy
and worms eventually do it anyway).
SOIL
Don't worry too much whether you're doing things right or whether your soil
is suitable - it's better to get stuck in and learn from your mistakes. As
your soil is uncultivated it probably doesn't need much manure yet but it's
always a good idea to add organic matter each year from your compost heap or
friendly farmer. You don't need much manure for carrots and onions anyway.
COLD FRAMES
Make or buy some cold frames. Last spring was the worst for growing veg in
my experience so I am now starting seed in modules in cold frames to ensure
germination this year (presently calabrese, greyhound cabbage, lathom
celery, little gem lettuce, scallions). When you have transplanted the early
seedlings you can grow cucumbers, melons etc very successfully in the cold
frame.
POTATOES
Potato blight can be a problem in our wet summers - being in the SE you may
be OK. I grow mostly earlies and cut the tops off before blight can attack.
I've also grown maincrops and removed the tops if I saw signs of blight. I
still can't decide on what varieties are best, I like waxy, wife & kids like
floury. Try a little of several to see what suits your soil & tastes. I'm
always pleasantly surprised by the amount of potatoes I get from so few
tubers.
WHAT TO GROW
Try everything at least once. My favourites are carrots (early Nantes/
Autumn king), onions from sets (eg Sturon), beetroot (Boltardy); potatoes,
lettuce (eg Little Gem), scallions (spring onions to the English), dwarf
french beans (very productive and can eat all the bean), autumn calabrese
brocolli, purple sprouting brocolli, spring cabbage, dwarf curled kale (for
autumn/winter). Peas & beans are easily grown and delicious but it takes
time to hull them. I grow outdoor tomatoes (Gardeners Delight) in pots and
bags against a south-facing wall, you may be able to grow them in the open.
BOOKS
The Vegetable Expert book is a good introduction and tells you all you need
to get started. Joy Larkcom's book "Grow your own vegetables" is great for
more in-depth info and Bob Flowerdew's "Organic Bible" is good for
inspiration.

Finally don't try to do too much at once. It's better to do a little work
more frequently than to go mad and dig and sow loads of stuff at once then
neglect things for a while. I started off with a few row of cabbages and
have now expanded to 17 raised beds (not finished yet - still 3/4 acre to
go!)). Sow little and often of salad crops - I always sow far too many at a
time when the weather is good and then forget to do successive sowings.
Incidentally you mention a five foot hedge - if its on the south side of
your patch it may block light & may need to be trimmed down a bit, otherwise
it will be fine for shelter

I've found that growing, picking and eating fresh veg that you've reared
from seed gives one a great sense of achievement and also respect for our
ancestor's ingenuity and toil to feed their families throughout the year -
no popping down to the supermarket for them!. Oh, and I forgot to mention
the exercise and fresh air.

BTW slightly off-topic http://futureforests.net in Cork is a great scource
of good quality shrubs and trees at reasonable prices. I've bought from
them for several years now and am very pleased with their service.

Good luck with your garden.

Jim










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The message
from "shannie" contains these words:

Wonderful advise there Janet, thank you. May I ask you one more
thing?...I've been planning this for a long while now and bought a compost
bin earlier this year, one of the big black plastic one's with a chute at
the front and a lid on top. I've been putting in household veg waste, waste
from the rabbit hutch and straw and chicken droppings from the hen house
etc. It doesn't seem to be diminishing any way fast though and is now almost
full. Should I get another one and start that? How will I know when it's
ready to use? All the stuff in it looks pretty much as it did when it went
in, a little withered but definately not rotten.

As others have said, it's partly the time of year. Urine is a good
activator. Grass cuttings or chopped nettles or comfrey,mixed with
chicken pooh, will heat up a heap rapidly from spring onwards. Seaweed
is good, or any bulk stuff like dead or live bracken, rosebay willow
herb, mouldy straw.

Really you need at least two heaps, partly so that one can be
"maturing" as you fill another, and mainly because you can never have
too much compost. I use 4 pallets tied together to make each heap and
just extend more bays as required.Bear in mind that the very top of a
mature, ready heap will often look unready; you just save the top few
inches to go into the next one.

Janet.

My thanks to everyone in the group who replied to my querie. Your answers
are all comprehensive and very helpful, Im chomping at the bit to get
started now Im now an avid reader of this group and no doubt I'll be back
with more questions, and maybe in months to come a little boasting too
Once again thank's to all of you who took the time and trouble to help me
out.

Shan