I have some cenizo (Texas sage, Leucophyllum Frutescens) that is
supposedly of the variety "Silverado Sage" (aka "Bertstar Dwarf"). It
is a beautiful plant, but my understanding is that it is supposed to be
a "dwarf", maturing at 4'.

(see http://www.greenbeam.com/features/plant012698.html)

However, mine are well over 5' and showing no signs of slowing down.
"Normal" varieties are generally 6'-8' at maturity, but that's a little
too big for where I have these planted.

Does anyone else have experience with Silverado Sage? Did it slow down
at 4'? Do I unknowingly have a different variety?


thanks
scott

This is a typical problem in the industry. 'Silverado Sage' was trade marked,
thus making it a far more expensive plant. There are people who could care less
about your height requirements and will mislabel a plant in order to charge the
higher price for the named variety.

It used to be the pool and skylight business which were shady. Slowly, but
surely, there are more and more charlatans popping up in the floriculture
industry. If you want a named plant and want to be sure it's what you get, I
suggest you shop the independent nurseries. They have a lot more to lose when
they lose even one customer, compared to the box stores who use their seasonal
losses as a tax write off.


On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:48:42 GMT, c (Scott Harper) wrote:

I have some cenizo (Texas sage, Leucophyllum Frutescens) that is
supposedly of the variety "Silverado Sage" (aka "Bertstar Dwarf"). It
is a beautiful plant, but my understanding is that it is supposed to be
a "dwarf", maturing at 4'.

(see http://www.greenbeam.com/features/plant012698.html)

However, mine are well over 5' and showing no signs of slowing down.
"Normal" varieties are generally 6'-8' at maturity, but that's a little
too big for where I have these planted.

Does anyone else have experience with Silverado Sage? Did it slow down
at 4'? Do I unknowingly have a different variety?


thanks
scott

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:25:46 GMT, c (Scott Harper) wrote:

In article , wrote:
If you want a named plant and want to be sure it's what you get, I
suggest you shop the independent nurseries. They have a lot more to lose when
they lose even one customer, compared to the box stores who use their seasonal
losses as a tax write off.

I'm pretty sure I got these at Red Barn, which I always thought was a
pretty decent place, even though I guess they are a chain. You got any
other suggestion?


scott

Red Barn is not a chain, it has three stores owned by the same people. That
said, how large is the plant you thought was dwarf supposed to grow to? Has it
far exceeded the expected height? If so, I would call Red Barn and question
them.

In article , wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:25:46 GMT, c (Scott Harper)
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
If you want a named plant and want to be sure it's what you get, I
suggest you shop the independent nurseries. They have a lot more to lose
when
they lose even one customer, compared to the box stores who use their
seasonal
losses as a tax write off.

I'm pretty sure I got these at Red Barn, which I always thought was a
pretty decent place, even though I guess they are a chain. You got any
other suggestion?


scott

Red Barn is not a chain, it has three stores owned by the same people. That
said, how large is the plant you thought was dwarf supposed to grow to? Has it
far exceeded the expected height? If so, I would call Red Barn and question
them.

I checked yesterday evening to see how far off *my* estimate was... I'm
6' tall, standing right next to them they are well over my head. And
they're still sending off new growth shoots, so it doesn't appear that
they've topped out yet.

I'll check with Red Barn...


scott

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:49:24 GMT, c (Scott Harper) wrote:


I checked yesterday evening to see how far off *my* estimate was... I'm
6' tall, standing right next to them they are well over my head. And
they're still sending off new growth shoots, so it doesn't appear that
they've topped out yet.

I'll check with Red Barn...


scott

Yes, I would. 'Silverado Sage' is a copyrighted name. If you ask me, it was an
entirely strange scam in the industry. I'm not sure what dwarf means in the
sense that 'Silverado Sage' is supposed to be. That may mean it can get 8 feet
tall.

A "small" tree is considered small if it tops out at about 25 feet. There are
no tried and true standards in the floriculture industry. At least there wasn't
when I was working in it. It is somewhat better now, what with the Heat Zone
standard and Hardiness Zone maps.

I'd be interested in knowing what they say, so please report back to the
newsgroup.

Victoria

In article , wrote:

Yes, I would. 'Silverado Sage' is a copyrighted name. If you ask me, it was
an
entirely strange scam in the industry. I'm not sure what dwarf means in the
sense that 'Silverado Sage' is supposed to be. That may mean it can get 8 feet
tall.

According to this web page, they are supposed to be 4', which is about
what I need.

http://www.greenbeam.com/features/plant012698.html

I'd be interested in knowing what they say, so please report back to the
newsgroup.

I'll try to remember. I don't know when I'll make it over there to talk
to them. The other disappointing thing is that I bought these in 1 gal
containers a few years ago. So they were very small when I planted
them, and I've invested considerable time getting them to the state they
are in today. I'm not too crazy about having to start over...


scott

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:32:44 GMT, c (Scott
Harper) wrote:


The other disappointing thing is that I bought these in 1 gal
containers a few years ago. So they were very small when I planted
them, and I've invested considerable time getting them to the state they
are in today. I'm not too crazy about having to start over...

scott

I have two small cenizos in the corner of my front yard that I knew
would eventually be too big for that space, but I plan to cut them
back from time to time, keeping to the natural shape as much as
possible. I see so many cenizos around town that have been whacked
into submission as hedges (shudder), and are still alive, that I can't
see a problem with occasional prudent pruning. Am I missing something?
IOW, why would you even have to think about starting over?

David

In article , David Wright wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:32:44 GMT, c (Scott
Harper) wrote:


The other disappointing thing is that I bought these in 1 gal
containers a few years ago. So they were very small when I planted
them, and I've invested considerable time getting them to the state they
are in today. I'm not too crazy about having to start over...

scott

I have two small cenizos in the corner of my front yard that I knew
would eventually be too big for that space, but I plan to cut them
back from time to time, keeping to the natural shape as much as
possible. I see so many cenizos around town that have been whacked
into submission as hedges (shudder), and are still alive, that I can't
see a problem with occasional prudent pruning. Am I missing something?
IOW, why would you even have to think about starting over?

Well, like you, I don't want them whacked into a "hedge" shape. I
generally prune them back sorta natural, like you. Once a year is
starting to be too infrequent now. But I'd like it better if I didn't
have to prune them -- if they'd mature into their natural shape at the
size I want to keep them. These are getting so big now, that the
"undergrowth" of the branches is extremely bare, and there aren't many
medium size branches growing out that low. So if I really pruned them
back to the size I want, I'd basically have a stick tree. I suppose the
leaves would eventually come back, because like you say, they're chopped
back to nothing everywhere you look.


scott

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:48:42 GMT, c (Scott
Harper) wrote:

I have some cenizo (Texas sage, Leucophyllum Frutescens) that is
supposedly of the variety "Silverado Sage" (aka "Bertstar Dwarf"). It
is a beautiful plant, but my understanding is that it is supposed to be
a "dwarf", maturing at 4'.

(see http://www.greenbeam.com/features/plant012698.html)

However, mine are well over 5' and showing no signs of slowing down.
"Normal" varieties are generally 6'-8' at maturity, but that's a little
too big for where I have these planted.

Does anyone else have experience with Silverado Sage? Did it slow down
at 4'? Do I unknowingly have a different variety?

Do you water them? Or have them in any shade? Dry and sunny
conditions yield more compact cenizos. If yours outgrow you you
might have better luck with a species that's smaller in the wild than
_L. frutescens_, such as _L. zygophyllum_ (sometimes found under the
trade name "Cimarron").

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:48:42 GMT, c (Scott
Harper) wrote:

I have some cenizo (Texas sage, Leucophyllum Frutescens) that is
supposedly of the variety "Silverado Sage" (aka "Bertstar Dwarf"). It
is a beautiful plant, but my understanding is that it is supposed to be
a "dwarf", maturing at 4'.

(see http://www.greenbeam.com/features/plant012698.html)

However, mine are well over 5' and showing no signs of slowing down.
"Normal" varieties are generally 6'-8' at maturity, but that's a little
too big for where I have these planted.

Does anyone else have experience with Silverado Sage? Did it slow down
at 4'? Do I unknowingly have a different variety?

Do you water them? Or have them in any shade? Dry and sunny
conditions yield more compact cenizos. If yours outgrow you you
might have better luck with a species that's smaller in the wild than
_L. frutescens_, such as _L. zygophyllum_ (sometimes found under the
trade name "Cimarron").

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 18:05:25 GMT, David Wright wrote:


I have two small cenizos in the corner of my front yard that I knew
would eventually be too big for that space, but I plan to cut them
back from time to time, keeping to the natural shape as much as
possible. I see so many cenizos around town that have been whacked
into submission as hedges (shudder), and are still alive, that I can't
see a problem with occasional prudent pruning. Am I missing something?
IOW, why would you even have to think about starting over?

David

The point of planting these dwarf cenizio 'Silverado Sage' is that when full
grown, would not require pruning to keep in bounds. The planter did the right
thing and did his homework. If he bought dwarf plants and they turn out to be
twice the size, he was basically lied to.

In article , (Terry Horton) wrote:
Do you water them? Or have them in any shade? Dry and sunny
conditions yield more compact cenizos. If yours outgrow you you
might have better luck with a species that's smaller in the wild than
_L. frutescens_, such as _L. zygophyllum_ (sometimes found under the
trade name "Cimarron").

They get plenty of water, as they are planted in a flower bed. But they
also get full west-facing sun. Maybe the zygophyllum would be better...
Are they typically carried by the local nurseries?


scott

Hi Scott

Just a thought on your sages.

You might consider rejuvenation pruning. This typically requires removal of

one third of the oldest stems to the soil line. I know that sounds drastic

but Cenizo is a tough plant. The regrowth should start at the soil and each

year for the next three you follow through until all the old wood is gone.

Also you might want to visit Schumacher's Nursery near New Braunfels.

They have most of the Leucophyllum species and varieties and will give

excellent advice.

HTH

Chris in Arid Austin

USDA Zn. 8b Sunset Zn. 30

"Scott Harper" wrote in message ...
In article , (Terry Horton) wrote:
Do you water them? Or have them in any shade? Dry and sunny
conditions yield more compact cenizos. If yours outgrow you you
might have better luck with a species that's smaller in the wild than
_L. frutescens_, such as _L. zygophyllum_ (sometimes found under the
trade name "Cimarron").

They get plenty of water, as they are planted in a flower bed. But they
also get full west-facing sun. Maybe the zygophyllum would be better...
Are they typically carried by the local nurseries?


scott

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:26:34 GMT, c (Scott Harper) wrote:



They get plenty of water, as they are planted in a flower bed. But they
also get full west-facing sun. Maybe the zygophyllum would be better...
Are they typically carried by the local nurseries?


scott

This worries me. Cenizo is not a shrub which likes wetness. To give an overall
view, no plants with silver foliage does well with moist or wet soil on a daily
basis.

When pruning a cenizo the bottom of the plant must be larger in diameter than
the top. Even if pruning judiciously using a pruning tool, the shape should be
so the bottom is fatter in diameter than the top. Now, in cases where the plant
receives the same amount of sun all day long (out in the open with no
obstructions) it can take a natural shape. But, when in the landscape and you
are trying to keep them attractive you can't prune tops evenly with bottoms.
Reason being the bottom will most always be shaded by the top and not enough sun
will produce a plant with a lot of lower limbs being dead.

Regardless, a west facing exposure is probably the most undesirable for most
plants. It won't kill sun loving plants, but afternoon sun being the only
direct sun it gets will be disadvantageous to the plant.

In article , wrote:

They get plenty of water, as they are planted in a flower bed. But they
also get full west-facing sun. Maybe the zygophyllum would be better...
Are they typically carried by the local nurseries?


This worries me. Cenizo is not a shrub which likes wetness. To give an
overall
view, no plants with silver foliage does well with moist or wet soil on a daily
basis.

Well don't get me wrong... I don't keep it wet on a daily basis. But
it gets adequate water, probably more than it needs being a desert
plant. And I'm pretty sure it "likes" the amount of wetness it is
getting. Heck, it's growing *too* well.

Regardless, a west facing exposure is probably the most undesirable for most
plants. It won't kill sun loving plants, but afternoon sun being the only
direct sun it gets will be disadvantageous to the plant.

Even a desert plant like cenizo? Well, can't do much about that...
And that's not the *only* sun it gets; it gets sun from about late
morning until sundown. But again, that doesn't seem to be a problem
with it, or the other plants in that same location (dwarf nandina, dwarf
yaupon holly, a low-growing juniper). Now the flowers that my wife
tries to grow out there on occasion are a whole 'nother story...


scott