I took down a (seriously damaged Az Ash) shade tree this winter, and I
have a brick wall that is now getting full afternoon sun. It's still
hot at midnight! So I'm interested in an attractive climbing vine that
will cover and provide natural shade. I don't have room for large
shrubs there. Recommendations?

I gather from Neil Sperry, etc. that Boston Ivy (which isn't a real
ivy) is one good central Texas choice. The fact that it's deciduous
means I get heat in the winter but shade in the summer. I'm told it
climbs brick without help. Vigorous, fast covering. But is it nice
looking? Red leaves in fall are kinda nice, but are the bare vines in
the winter ugly? OK to plant in midsummer?

Yes, I can read all about it on the web, but I'm wondering if there are
any gotchas/horror stories. (Haven't found any yet ...) Other ideas? I
really want something that doesn't need trellising/support.

I am not a technical savvy person in the foliage world. However, I did see
a few things when I went through a home inspection course in Dallas area,
some schoolhouse, some real home inspections. Any kind of vegetative canopy
that clings to any kind of wooden structure will tend to invervene in that
structure. Additionally, water rot and mildew will take over, hidden from
your eyes by such foliage. And, will eventually eat away at all that it
touches. If your fascia, fascia trim, soffit, or roof deck underlayment is
wooden, take heed. Cannot overemphasize, you're playing with needless home
repair due to owner oversight.

Natural shade is a good thing for your house, actual foliage covering is not
recommended.

For tree fire concerns, the formula 50' plus the height of the tree should
be the minimum horizontal distance from your house in a wooded area where
fire may spread from tree to tree. If not, just bear in mind the fall of
the tree if felled by heavy winds.

Additionally, find it hard to believe a brick wall is passing that much
heat, as you communicate, to the house internals. The brick will tend to
"hold" the heat for much longer than a wooden/cement/vinyl siding wall. The
only direct contact the brick should have is via a small metal strap every
so often to the wall framing. There should be good sized air gap in between
other than that. Nevermind the underlying material between the air gap and
the framed wall, and the insulation in the framed wall. Guessing the wall
generally faces west. If so, you should seek a building and/or construction
newsgroup for their recommendations at the very least.

More likely, your attic is heated up much more due to lack of shade cover
during the latter day west sun. The attic cannot dissipate the heat coming
from the heated air gap from the west wall facing brick and roof on the west
side of the house. And the attic is poorly ventilated in my opinion. Most
of the heat should dissipate beginning around an hour or two after the sun
sets, and then the house should settle down to lowering its temperature.
This time period is when the building gives up most of its absorbed heat to
the atmosphere.

In Central Texas, an un-air conditioned home will remain hot and
uncomfortable for the entire night during 90 degree plus F temps during the
day. In some cases, until the wee hours of the morning if hotter during the
day. Humidity is also a factor. Opening all the windows and use of
stand-alone fans in windows is recommended to facilitate cooling the house
off. Lack of use of bed sheets, blankets, and even clothing worn to bed can
help in the sleep dept. This has nothing to do with trees, shade, brick
walls, or otherwise.

There is sealer/paint used in basements of very white color that may reflect
more of the sun's radiated heated than plain brick. May not look consistent
if the rest of the brick on other exterior walls is not the same color.
Painful choice. My doghouse, halfway in the unlevel ground on the opposite
door side, has the cinder block walls painted with this stuff inside and
out. Local realtor calls it a bomb shelter. The 2 dogs go in it around 2
p.m. until around 7 p.m., or until I return from work and let them in the
house so far.
--
Jonny
"Doug Lassiter" wrote in message
ups.com...
I took down a (seriously damaged Az Ash) shade tree this winter, and I
have a brick wall that is now getting full afternoon sun. It's still
hot at midnight! So I'm interested in an attractive climbing vine that
will cover and provide natural shade. I don't have room for large
shrubs there. Recommendations?

I gather from Neil Sperry, etc. that Boston Ivy (which isn't a real
ivy) is one good central Texas choice. The fact that it's deciduous
means I get heat in the winter but shade in the summer. I'm told it
climbs brick without help. Vigorous, fast covering. But is it nice
looking? Red leaves in fall are kinda nice, but are the bare vines in
the winter ugly? OK to plant in midsummer?

Yes, I can read all about it on the web, but I'm wondering if there are
any gotchas/horror stories. (Haven't found any yet ...) Other ideas? I
really want something that doesn't need trellising/support.

Jonny wrote:
I am not a technical savvy person in the foliage world. However, I did see
a few things when I went through a home inspection course in Dallas area,
some schoolhouse, some real home inspections. Any kind of vegetative canopy
that clings to any kind of wooden structure will tend to invervene in that
structure. Additionally, water rot and mildew will take over, hidden from
your eyes by such foliage. And, will eventually eat away at all that it
touches. If your fascia, fascia trim, soffit, or roof deck underlayment is
wooden, take heed. Cannot overemphasize, you're playing with needless home
repair due to owner oversight.

Natural shade is a good thing for your house, actual foliage covering is not
recommended.



Thanks. These are astute comments.

Correct about heat transfer through brick. Just because they stay hot
doesn't mean they are effective heat sources. In fact, it may mean that
they aren't. But the heat transfer from them is almost certainly
radiative and convective, not conductive, so those metal straps are
probably not relevant.

Also true about attics. I've got R=30 in mine, and spinners and a ridge
vent as well, but even with the latter I see scarily high temps there.
White brick? Yeah, that would help a lot with the heat buildup, but ...
ugh.

I would certainly rather have shade from a tree, but I'm about ten
years away from having that right now! I am curious about possible long
term damage to brick or mortar from ivy though. No question that one
needs to keep it off of wood. In that context, one gardening question
would be how much work would something like Boston Ivy require to keep
it under control? With pretty full sun, am I likely to be hacking at it
all summer to keep it from invading my attic?

"Doug Lassiter" wrote in message
ps.com...
Jonny wrote:
I am not a technical savvy person in the foliage world. However, I did
see
a few things when I went through a home inspection course in Dallas area,
some schoolhouse, some real home inspections. Any kind of vegetative
canopy
that clings to any kind of wooden structure will tend to invervene in
that
structure. Additionally, water rot and mildew will take over, hidden
from
your eyes by such foliage. And, will eventually eat away at all that it
touches. If your fascia, fascia trim, soffit, or roof deck underlayment
is
wooden, take heed. Cannot overemphasize, you're playing with needless
home
repair due to owner oversight.

Natural shade is a good thing for your house, actual foliage covering is
not
recommended.



Thanks. These are astute comments.

Correct about heat transfer through brick. Just because they stay hot
doesn't mean they are effective heat sources. In fact, it may mean that
they aren't. But the heat transfer from them is almost certainly
radiative and convective, not conductive, so those metal straps are
probably not relevant.

Also true about attics. I've got R=30 in mine, and spinners and a ridge
vent as well, but even with the latter I see scarily high temps there.
White brick? Yeah, that would help a lot with the heat buildup, but ...
ugh.

I would certainly rather have shade from a tree, but I'm about ten
years away from having that right now! I am curious about possible long
term damage to brick or mortar from ivy though. No question that one
needs to keep it off of wood. In that context, one gardening question
would be how much work would something like Boston Ivy require to keep
it under control? With pretty full sun, am I likely to be hacking at it
all summer to keep it from invading my attic?


Don't see any problem with foliage such as ivy on brick itself. It will
discolor the brick. If you ever wack the ivy down, stand by with a pressure
washer. More than once may be needed. Some mildew stains in the mortar may
never come out without replacing the mortar.

Most of the people we talked to were aware of potential problems. They
simply got lazy after awhile, ignored it.
--
Jonny

Doug Lassiter wrote:
I took down a (seriously damaged Az Ash) shade tree this winter, and I
have a brick wall that is now getting full afternoon sun. It's still
hot at midnight! So I'm interested in an attractive climbing vine that
will cover and provide natural shade. I don't have room for large
shrubs there. Recommendations?

I gather from Neil Sperry, etc. that Boston Ivy (which isn't a real
ivy) is one good central Texas choice. The fact that it's deciduous
means I get heat in the winter but shade in the summer. I'm told it
climbs brick without help. Vigorous, fast covering. But is it nice
looking? Red leaves in fall are kinda nice, but are the bare vines in
the winter ugly? OK to plant in midsummer?

Yes, I can read all about it on the web, but I'm wondering if there are
any gotchas/horror stories. (Haven't found any yet ...) Other ideas? I
really want something that doesn't need trellising/support.

Try fig ivy, or creeping fig. I have it on a rock wall on my shop. It
grows better if you water regularly. I use a drip irrigation line with
the mini sprinklers for about 30 minutes a day. It does require
maintenance:trimming the edges to keep it from growing into the
surrounding wood trim.

Another solution would be to build a light trellis in front of the wall
and grow honeysuckle or some other prolific vine on the trellis.

--
Gary Brady
Austin, TX

In article om,
"Doug Lassiter" wrote:

I would certainly rather have shade from a tree, but I'm about ten
years away from having that right now! I am curious about possible long
term damage to brick or mortar from ivy though. No question that one
needs to keep it off of wood. In that context, one gardening question
would be how much work would something like Boston Ivy require to keep
it under control? With pretty full sun, am I likely to be hacking at it
all summer to keep it from invading my attic?

Try morning glory.
They die in the winter and have to be re-planted every spring but they
grow ever so fast.

It would not be a bad idea to erect an inexpensive trellis tho'.
Stakes and strings that can be removed in the winter and put back up in
the spring are common, quick, easy and cheap.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Try fig ivy, or creeping fig. I have it on a rock wall on my shop. It
grows better if you water regularly. I use a drip irrigation line with
the mini sprinklers for about 30 minutes a day. It does require
maintenance:trimming the edges to keep it from growing into the
surrounding wood trim.



Neil Sperry says that Fig Ivy doesn't like hot afternoon sun, which is
what I have loads of. Also, he rates it Zone 9, which sounds a little
delicate to me. It's a west wall, and there is northern exposure to
pretty cold winds in winter. One website says you have to cut it back
to the ground every few years!

Is there some advantage to Fig Ivy? The leaves do look attractive.

Doug Lassiter wrote:

Neil Sperry says that Fig Ivy doesn't like hot afternoon sun, which is
what I have loads of. Also, he rates it Zone 9, which sounds a little
delicate to me. It's a west wall, and there is northern exposure to
pretty cold winds in winter. One website says you have to cut it back
to the ground every few years!

Is there some advantage to Fig Ivy? The leaves do look attractive.

Agreed, it will get frostbite sometimes. The batch I have faces west
but has a clump of trees and bushes in front of it, so it doesn't the
direct scorching sun all of the time, but I think that plenty of water
will help offset any scorching. The trees overhang the wall a bit and
protect it from freezing, too. Don't know about cutting back to the
ground, I just trim the ends on mine. If it gets to prolific, cut back
on the water.

I planted it because I liked the looks of it.

I think in your case, I would consider the trellis in front of the wall,
with a fast growing vine on it.

--
Gary Brady
Austin, TX