"colonel" wrote in message
...
Los Angeles Times
July 19, 2003

Goats Are West's Latest Weed Whackers
"Lawnmowers with legs" make short work of noxious plants and don't
pollute the land.

Latest? Nope. Been used in BC for weed clearing and grass clipping for many
years. I remember a program on it from at least five years ago. Perfect for
hillsides with outcroppings of rock that would defeat any power mower.

I've been recommending that for over a decade, at least! The goats love poison
ivy and when there is an infestation, a few goats will take it out permanently
in about a week or two.

I would love to own a nubian goat, but I don't have much more than half acre.
My inspiration is Tasha Tudor and her nubians.


v


On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 05:26:50 GMT, (colonel) wrote:

Los Angeles Times
July 19, 2003

Goats Are West's Latest Weed Whackers
"Lawnmowers with legs" make short work of noxious plants and don't
pollute the land.

By David Kelly
Times Staff Writer

GOLDEN, Colo. -- It was just after dawn when Jim Guggenhime and his
crew trotted past the tennis courts and onto the lawns of the Mount
Vernon Country Club.

They made short work of the leafy spur, knapweed and poison ivy,
pausing occasionally to cough up a thistle that went down the wrong
way.

One bloated employee lifted his head.

"Get back to work!" shouted Guggenhime.

"Maaaaa!" he retorted weakly.

Guggenhime rolled his eyes.

"Even though they work for me, I still find them adorable," he said.

For someone who just spent 10 days sleeping in a truck with more than
200 goats, Guggenhime hardly seems a man ahead of his time.

And yet as Colorado and the rest of the West grapple with how best to
kill noxious weeds, more people are favoring the spindly goat over
polluting mowers and poison sprays.

Guggenhime owns Nip it in the Bud, a company that rents out goats to
eat weeds. He's only been in business a month but he's already lined
up enough contracts to last well into fall.

"We are entirely booked," he said, looking happily disheveled among
the knee-high weeds and bobbing, bleating goat heads. "It's the
ultimate organic solution."

The country club in Golden is just the latest place to find goats in
Colorado.

The shaggy beasts seem to be cropping up like weeds themselves.

They have been used to clear brush in downtown Denver. In Colorado
Springs, they are eating vegetation that sparks wildfires. Along
highways and median strips goats can be seen blithely browsing on
thorny, gnarly branches. And there are plans to enlist them to help
defeat the tamarisk, one of the most tenacious plant pests in the
West.

"It's a lawnmower with legs," said Eric Lane, Colorado state weed
coordinator. "It's growing in popularity because it strikes people as
natural weed control. They also look better than a guy in a moon suit
spraying strange chemicals all over the place."

Boulder, a city that prides itself on being environmentally conscious,
is giving goats a test run.

"The goats will eat the weed down to the root system," said Patrick
Tarver, a maintenance supervisor for the city. "We started this week,
and if it works out we will use them all the time. It totally fits
into the Boulder mentality."

Goats, long the black sheep of the farm-animal family, may not be as
cute as lambs or elegant as horses but they eat just about anything.
Cactus, thistles and hemlock - plants that can be deadly to humans -
are consumed with gusto. Contrary to urban legend, they don't eat tin
cans or clothes, though they'll happily nibble both. Powerful enzymes
in a goat's saliva neutralize toxins so that the biggest threat it
faces is eating itself to death.

"If I put them in a field of alfalfa all day, many of them would be
dead by the morning," Guggenhime said. "They'd just keep eating."

Wyoming, California, New Mexico, Arizona and Utah have all used goats
on a limited basis. Utah's Department of Agriculture is pushing cities
and towns to try their luck with goats. Murray, a suburb of Salt Lake
City, employed 100 animals last month to clear weeds out of its local
parks.

"They ate the weeds right to the ground," said Doug Hill, the city's
public services director. "The people loved them; it was like a
petting zoo out there."

Goat aficionados say eating weeds is just one of many benefits the
animals offer.

"Goats aerate the soil, mulch the soil, fertilize the soil and
irrigate it," said Lani Malmberg, a pioneer of commercial goat
grazing. "With all the pesticides that have been sprayed there
shouldn't be a single weed on the planet but there is."

Malmberg, 45, a former rancher, said she's a "gypsy." She spends her
days driving around the West in her camper with 1,100 weed-eating
cashmere goats following in a truck. Business is so good that she is
handing much of it off these days to newcomers like Guggenhime.

"It's catching on fast because the public is demanding less use of
chemicals in their air, water and land," she said. "I am now training
people in five states how to get started in this business."

Malmberg, who started grazing goats in 1997 and has a master's degree
in weed science, has clients that include national parks, state parks,
the city of Cheyenne, Wyo., and ranchers throughout the West.

"We are partners, this herd and I," she said. "We have a good rapport.
They are always polite and they trust that I will take good care of
them. I know that must sound funny but it's true."

When hired, the goats are taken to the site and left to graze. An
electric fence keeps them from running off or eating what they
shouldn't. A dog helps maintain order. When one area is done, the
goats are moved to another. The cost varies from about $1 to $1.50 per
goat, per day.

Barbara Nugent, director of parks for El Paso County, hired 1,000
goats to work 600-acre Bear Creek Park in Colorado Springs because she
didn't want to spray near water supplies and around so many people.

"The goats are just knocking themselves out," she said. "They are all
natural - they don't make noise and they don't create fossil-fuel
waste. We put seed packs on their back so they can plant while
grazing."

The goats even ate 500 old Christmas trees, leaving just stumps
behind.

But Nugent worried that what went in, might come out.

"We picked up goat poop and planted it to see if the weeds would grow
back," she said. "We watched it and watered it but we got no weeds."

Back at the country club, the goats serenely chomped through a thicket
of thistle. Occasionally one escaped the pen then cried plaintively to
come back inside.

"They are very curious and very social," said Guggenhime, as he
wrestled an errant goat to the ground and carried it back to the pen.
"They have friends and they have enemies, but they don't like to be
alone."

The other goats stopped eating for a second to see what the fuss was
about then resumed their work.

Guggenhime, 27, grew up in California's Marin County, but it was a
trip to Kenya and Tanzania that got him excited about goats.

"Goats were everywhere," he recalled. "I always fancied the rural
lifestyle, and when I came back I decided I wanted to get goats."

The idea was to raise a small amount for meat, milk or even for pack
animals. Some goats, he said, produce milk "that tastes like melted
ice cream."

"But it was nothing that would make me a living," he said.

Eventually, he bought some goats from Malmberg and started a business
on a small farm in Colorado. Now he works almost every day with only
his wife to help out.

Guggenhime rises at dawn to set up fences and start the animals
grazing.

And while he finds them "adorable," goats have some fairly
objectionable habits, like males who urinate on their own faces to
attract mates.

"Yeah, they can smell pretty bad sometimes," Guggenhime concedes.
"Goats have always gotten a bad rap. Even God came out against them."

The Bible says on Judgment Day the nations of the earth will be
separated like sheep and goats. The sheep will be on the right side,
the goats on the left. The sheep will go to heaven while the goats
will get eternal damnation.

"It's really not fair," Guggenhime said. "Look at all the uses goats
have, look at how much they have given us. And all they basically do
is eat."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Ian St. John" wrote in message
...

"colonel" wrote in message
...
Los Angeles Times
July 19, 2003

Goats Are West's Latest Weed Whackers
"Lawnmowers with legs" make short work of noxious plants and don't
pollute the land.

Latest? Nope. Been used in BC for weed clearing and grass clipping for
many
years. I remember a program on it from at least five years ago. Perfect
for
hillsides with outcroppings of rock that would defeat any power mower.


Just an innocent leading news headline.

Goats have long been used in many areas of the US for clearing purposes and
growth suppression. They are also among the more destructive and non
discriminating of all domestic animals.

James Curts

(colonel) wrote in message ...
Los Angeles Times
July 19, 2003

Goats Are West's Latest Weed Whackers
"Lawnmowers with legs" make short work of noxious plants and don't
pollute the land.

This must surely be a joke.
Maybe this works with well-controlled small herds of goats, but
unconstrained, they eat *everything* right down to the roots, leading
to erosion and desertification. They certainly contributed to the
state of the mid-East.
The old saw: "How do you make a desert? Take nay land, add goats."
shows up in Hawaii:

http://www.rarehawaii.org/goatpage/goatpage.htm

I'm very sad to hear that the Waimea Canyon on Kauai has been stripped
by the goats; that's my list of "most beautiful placaes I've been."
sigh.

Argh, technology can be good or bad, but so can "natural" (although,
of course, goats are hardly "natural" having been bred for years.
What we could use is a GM goat that avoids good plants, eats weeds,
but is careful not to strip an area to the point of erosion. (not
likely) In some places, I'd much rather have weeds than nothing. In
the farm country where I grew up, goats were not favored -
unsustainable.

"animaux" wrote in message
...
I've been recommending that for over a decade, at least! The goats love
poison
ivy and when there is an infestation, a few goats will take it out
permanently
in about a week or two.

I would love to own a nubian goat, but I don't have much more than half
acre.
My inspiration is Tasha Tudor and her nubians.

Buy one you will get over you love affair with goats pretty quick. They are
into everything on the place eating the weeds and garden alike.

Gordon

"John Mashey" wrote in message
om...
(colonel) wrote in message
...
Los Angeles Times
July 19, 2003

Goats Are West's Latest Weed Whackers
"Lawnmowers with legs" make short work of noxious plants and don't
pollute the land.

This must surely be a joke.

Nope.

Maybe this works with well-controlled small herds of goats,

Exactly.

but unconstrained, they eat *everything* right down to the roots, leading
to erosion and desertification. They certainly contributed to the
state of the mid-East.

A better example is Greece. The hilly slopes were first denuded of trees to
provide pastures and then of pastures as the goats at the grass to the
roots. The resulting erosion pretty much eliminated the topsoil. What is the
main meat ingredient in Greek cuisine? Goat!

The old saw: "How do you make a desert? Take any land, add goats."
shows up in Hawaii:

http://www.rarehawaii.org/goatpage/goatpage.htm

I'm very sad to hear that the Waimea Canyon on Kauai has been stripped
by the goats; that's my list of "most beautiful placaes I've been."
sigh.

These are wild goats. Wild pigs are a problem in ecosystems, but that does
not mean that pigs are bad. The issue is the wild populaitons, not the goats
or pigs.


Argh, technology can be good or bad, but so can "natural" (although,
of course, goats are hardly "natural" having been bred for years.

There are natural or wild goat populations. Mountain goats in the Yukon, for
example.

What we could use is a GM goat that avoids good plants, eats weeds,
but is careful not to strip an area to the point of erosion. (not
likely)

GM. The next 'magic wand'. You illustrate a point that I wish I could have
shown on another thread.

In some places, I'd much rather have weeds than nothing. In
the farm country where I grew up, goats were not favored -
unsustainable.

Maybe. On the other hand there are areas that can really benefit, including
the above projects. I expect that some tropical locations can benefit from
the goats hooves breaking up the hard packed earth and adding a certain
amount of 'fertiliser'. It depends on the farm and the farming program.
Nothing inherently 'bad' about goats.

John Mashey writes

This must surely be a joke.
Maybe this works with well-controlled small herds of goats,

That seems precisely what was described.

but
unconstrained, they eat *everything* right down to the roots, leading
to erosion and desertification.

That depends on whether they are then moved on or not.
The roots are still there, and will doubtless produce new shoots (in
most cases) pretty quickly.

They certainly contributed to the
state of the mid-East.
The old saw: "How do you make a desert? Take nay land, add goats."

If you don;t understand what is being discussed properly,
best to stay quiet.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:27:43 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

Buy one you will get over you love affair with goats pretty quick. They are
into everything on the place eating the weeds and garden alike.

Gordon


Yes, which is why I said I would not buy one because I didn't have enough room
for even one. They only eat everything if you allow them to. I would never
handle a herd, but they do exist and goat cheese is made every day all over the
planet. Hey, I just love the cute things. I didn't say they were the end of
the world, wonderful!

V

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:27:43 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

Buy one you will get over you love affair with goats pretty quick. They are
into everything on the place eating the weeds and garden alike.

Gordon


Yes, which is why I said I would not buy one because I didn't have enough room
for even one. They only eat everything if you allow them to. I would never
handle a herd, but they do exist and goat cheese is made every day all over the
planet. Hey, I just love the cute things. I didn't say they were the end of
the world, wonderful!

V

(colonel) wrote in message ...
Los Angeles Times
July 19, 2003

Goats Are West's Latest Weed Whackers
"Lawnmowers with legs" make short work of noxious plants and don't
pollute the land.

By David Kelly
Times Staff Writer

GOLDEN, Colo. -- It was just after dawn when Jim Guggenhime and his
crew trotted past the tennis courts and onto the lawns of the Mount
Vernon Country Club.

They made short work of the leafy spur, knapweed and poison ivy,
pausing occasionally to cough up a thistle that went down the wrong
way.

One bloated employee lifted his head.

"Get back to work!" shouted Guggenhime.

"Maaaaa!" he retorted weakly.

Guggenhime rolled his eyes.

"Even though they work for me, I still find them adorable," he said.

For someone who just spent 10 days sleeping in a truck with more than
200 goats, Guggenhime hardly seems a man ahead of his time.

And yet as Colorado and the rest of the West grapple with how best to
kill noxious weeds, more people are favoring the spindly goat over
polluting mowers and poison sprays.


Colorado uses Bugs also:

http://www.westword.com/issues/2001-...l/1/index.html

http://www.westword.com/issues/2002-...l/1/index.html

Twenty years ago I had 3 goats (Rosie & her sons Ben & Jerry) on our farm in
upstate NY, specifically to control the "bamboo" (we never knew exactly what
they were) plants that were overtaking the field behind our house. They did
a great job and were allowed to roam free. They didn't destroy our front
lawn, even though they would occasionally graze there. At that time, my
bedroom was on the 1st floor, with a porch outside my windows. I would often
sleep with a window open during the warmer months and would wake up to 3
goat heads inside my room staring at me. Sometimes they would bleat to wake
me up. I would even find them swinging themselves, while standing up, on the
porch glider. They were good at yard work and made good pets.
Dianne in Austin

Twenty years ago I had 3 goats (Rosie & her sons Ben & Jerry) on our farm in
upstate NY, specifically to control the "bamboo" (we never knew exactly what
they were) plants that were overtaking the field behind our house. They did
a great job and were allowed to roam free. They didn't destroy our front
lawn, even though they would occasionally graze there. At that time, my
bedroom was on the 1st floor, with a porch outside my windows. I would often
sleep with a window open during the warmer months and would wake up to 3
goat heads inside my room staring at me. Sometimes they would bleat to wake
me up. I would even find them swinging themselves, while standing up, on the
porch glider. They were good at yard work and made good pets.
Dianne in Austin

Twenty years ago I had 3 goats (Rosie & her sons Ben & Jerry) on our farm in
upstate NY, specifically to control the "bamboo" (we never knew exactly what
they were) plants that were overtaking the field behind our house. They did
a great job and were allowed to roam free. They didn't destroy our front
lawn, even though they would occasionally graze there. At that time, my
bedroom was on the 1st floor, with a porch outside my windows. I would often
sleep with a window open during the warmer months and would wake up to 3
goat heads inside my room staring at me. Sometimes they would bleat to wake
me up. I would even find them swinging themselves, while standing up, on the
porch glider. They were good at yard work and made good pets.
Dianne in Austin

Howdy folks,
By strange coincidence ( or cosmic machinations ) or I have too
much time on my hands, and am doing a quick study of African History
given the current events, I was reading Larry Gonick's "The Cartoon
History of the Universe III " last night, that covers the history of
Africa and lo and behold, there is a section on the devastation of the
top soil in North Western Africa.
According to Gonick, in 1047 there was a revolt in Maghreb (
Western North Africa ) against the Fatimid Caliph Al Mustan in Cairo
who had been in charge of political control of that area for the
Islamic empire. In response the Caliph sent two Arab tribes from Egypt
, the Hilal and Sulaim west to attempt to regain control. The tribes
were offered all the land they could graze in exchange for migrating
west. Over the last half of the eleventh century, the flocks destoyed
the grasses and desertification set in quickly.
Interesting stuff.

I must say, I enjoyed the tone of discovery in the article "Goats
are West's Latest Weed Whackers". I would hardly say 'latest' since
goats, and other four footed grazing animals have been whacking weeds
in the West for quite some time. Her in Texas folks shot each other
over the ability of some grazing animals to munch the green stuff.
Twenty years ago I had a good old boy friend who never mowed just
moved the stake tethering his goat, around his property.

Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com

Sorry old chap but you are full of shit!

I have a herd of goats and I must mow their pen weekly.

Contrary to bullshiters, like yourself, goats do NOT eat anything.


"John Mashey" wrote in message
om...
(colonel) wrote in message
...
Los Angeles Times
July 19, 2003

Goats Are West's Latest Weed Whackers
"Lawnmowers with legs" make short work of noxious plants and don't
pollute the land.

This must surely be a joke.
Maybe this works with well-controlled small herds of goats, but
unconstrained, they eat *everything* right down to the roots, leading
to erosion and desertification. They certainly contributed to the
state of the mid-East.
The old saw: "How do you make a desert? Take nay land, add goats."
shows up in Hawaii:

http://www.rarehawaii.org/goatpage/goatpage.htm

I'm very sad to hear that the Waimea Canyon on Kauai has been stripped
by the goats; that's my list of "most beautiful placaes I've been."
sigh.

Argh, technology can be good or bad, but so can "natural" (although,
of course, goats are hardly "natural" having been bred for years.
What we could use is a GM goat that avoids good plants, eats weeds,
but is careful not to strip an area to the point of erosion. (not
likely) In some places, I'd much rather have weeds than nothing. In
the farm country where I grew up, goats were not favored -
unsustainable.