"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Hua Kul writes

A solution is to have one's beef
ground at the point of sale and use it soon after. Or do as I did,
purchase a meat grinder and do it at home.

Interesting, and a good point.

Yes, and one worth making. We have minced beef from our own bullock, but
it
is minced by our butcher and I then either make burgers or bag the mince
into 1lb packs before sticking it straight into the freezer. So he minces
the animal at 3pm and by 8pm it is in the freezer.

Jim Webster


This ground burger issue is one I have taken up with various shops and
especially in the retail chain store arena. This is generally precipitated
by taking questionable burger back to the meat market and confronting them
with bad smelling (rotting) meat with the date on the package. This is a
high volume meat product and yet is treated with much disdain by those
producing it. The time some of it is left uncooled is critical and often old
burger is mixed in with new.

We too, buy from a source which grinds and packages right before us and we
do well. It is straight from the cooler to grinder and into a package and in
minutes is in our cooler/freezer.

A chain of buffet/dinner establishments in the Portland and Seattle area
were put out of business by recurring e-coli outbreaks which were traced to
their food. I believe it was in the milk and meat products. I always
suspected a disgruntled employee contributed to the issue but maybe just
happenstance.

James Curts

James Curts wrote:

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Hua Kul writes

A solution is to have one's beef
ground at the point of sale and use it soon after. Or do as I did,
purchase a meat grinder and do it at home.

Interesting, and a good point.

Yes, and one worth making. We have minced beef from our own bullock, but
it
is minced by our butcher and I then either make burgers or bag the mince
into 1lb packs before sticking it straight into the freezer. So he minces
the animal at 3pm and by 8pm it is in the freezer.

Jim Webster


This ground burger issue is one I have taken up with various shops and
especially in the retail chain store arena. This is generally precipitated
by taking questionable burger back to the meat market and confronting them
with bad smelling (rotting) meat with the date on the package. This is a
high volume meat product and yet is treated with much disdain by those
producing it. The time some of it is left uncooled is critical and often old
burger is mixed in with new.

We too, buy from a source which grinds and packages right before us and we
do well. It is straight from the cooler to grinder and into a package and in
minutes is in our cooler/freezer.

A chain of buffet/dinner establishments in the Portland and Seattle area
were put out of business by recurring e-coli outbreaks which were traced to
their food. I believe it was in the milk and meat products. I always
suspected a disgruntled employee contributed to the issue but maybe just
happenstance.

James Curts

Try this on for size: Meat is aged on the avergae of 19 days nationwide if sold to stores. In their lockers a few more day pass by before cut and wrapped for sale. When it stands in the sales dispay and does NOT sell..then it ismade into huge rolls of "
hamburger" with fat added to allegedly "preserve" it better
up to 35% worth. In some stores the STENCH is enough to senf most folks
"hurling"!
And one wonders WHY we have so much food poisoning in our country! Yucko..B-0b1 u

James Curts wrote:

The biggest problem in the US is the ignorance of the typical
consumer. Many people believe that the meat is somehow internally
infected with e.coli. But the bacterium exists in the steer's
digestive system and only contacts the meat through unhygenic
processes during slaughter. So when I buy a roast the only place
possibly contaminated would be the surface, and that can be washed off
or will be killed in the cooking. The problem arises when commercial
butchers pool and grind large quantities of beef into hamburger
several days before it is ever used, distributing the bacterium and
giving it a window to proliferate. A solution is to have one's beef
ground at the point of sale and use it soon after. Or do as I did,
purchase a meat grinder and do it at home.

--Hua Kul



I'm sure you feel much better about yourself now that you have typified the
US consumer as ignorant. Your understanding of steer guts is commendable
also.

The typical US consumer is probably as cognizant of food quality, purity and
nutritional value as any in modern nations today. With the properly written
and implemented laws we have today regulating food products there is little
need for the person purchasing the family meal to be knowledgeable about any
particular health shortcomings of their choices.

My livelihood is food products which must satisfy the most exacting needs
and wants of consumers. This includes the demand for the best health
safeguards we have available today.

In my particular instance it concerns fresh produce and the vast majority of
the retail consumers are a very discerning and critical lot. The continual
barrage of information and disinformation displayed for public benefit has
the buying populace taking even more notice of what is in/on and part of a
given product. This is in large part due to the ambiguous claims of the
organic growers regarding pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers.

The organic faction has quite a following until tests show what is really in
the produce. One of our larger retail food chains in the area has ceased
selling organic labeled produce because of non-conformance to advertised
standards. The GM issue has even more folks taking notice and becoming more
aware of what they put into the shopping cart.

The US consumer ignorant??

They certainly are not so ignorant as to buy/use products whose producers
deliberately circumvent the laws and regulations on which we rely to insure
the food we consume is wholesome.

James Curts

James..good shot! The folks who insist on organic foods, good or bad,
are still at risk from E-coli because MIGRANT workers still pich the
food-stuffs and still go to the bathroom in the field outhouses without
washroom facilities. their
HANDS still are usually infected and E-coli STILL can be a problem! SOME
moron recently said that "organic foods need NOT be scrubbed"..c'mon
GymBob..get your head out of your E-coli bearing hole!

As fo cows milk..it WOULD be SAFE if only pasteurized...but
HOMOGENIZATION makaes it "poisoness" as the deadly , but huge "X-0"
enzyme in COW's milk is responsible for millions of folks havng LESIONS
in their hearts and other organs. Normally, it is so huge that it passes
on thru the system without harm...however when "micronized" by
homogenization...it becomes a killer, espcially to "WIC" confronted
babies. It CAN be MADE SAFE simply by bringing it up to a simmer and
then cooling over-night to re-coagulate the enzyme. It floats to the top
as an UGLY "pancake" and may be tossed or filtered out! The milk is THEN
very sweet and stays fresh much longer and is SAFE as well for all
users. "Simple answers for a deadly problem" . B-0b1

Jim Webster wrote:

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Hua Kul writes

A solution is to have one's beef
ground at the point of sale and use it soon after. Or do as I did,
purchase a meat grinder and do it at home.

Interesting, and a good point.

Yes, and one worth making. We have minced beef from our own bullock, but it
is minced by our butcher and I then either make burgers or bag the mince
into 1lb packs before sticking it straight into the freezer. So he minces
the animal at 3pm and by 8pm it is in the freezer.

Jim Webster

Jim my comments in the previous post...Milk CAN BE deadly if one BUYS
the LIES!! B-0b1

"R.L. McCarty" wrote in message
...

SNIP

Try this on for size: Meat is aged on the avergae of 19 days nationwide
if sold to stores. In their lockers a few more day pass by before cut and
wrapped for sale. When it stands in the sales dispay and does NOT sell..then
it ismade into huge rolls of "hamburger" with fat added to allegedly
"preserve" it better
up to 35% worth. In some stores the STENCH is enough to senf most folks
"hurling"!
And one wonders WHY we have so much food poisoning in our country!
Yucko..B-0b1 u

I am well familiar with the aging process and the need for it. While still
on the ranch we raised our own beef, and about everything else raisable, and
oversaw the care of if from slaughter to dinner plate.

Much of what you see and experience in the meat markets today is
carelessness and attitude on the part of the employees. Store owners are
knowledgeable enough to know the product can almost always be traced back to
them if a customer or the law cares to.

Often, as in the case of mixing the old meat with the new, the amount of old
meat actually used is of minimal concern and is only a dumb stunt on the
part of an employee.

Again, laws and regulations protect the consumer if they are enforced.

Things could be a bit of a hassle before we had electricity and depended on
ice blocks and cooler cabinets.

Another significant source of food poisoning is still home canning projects
which go awry. Any low acid food is susceptible to and can promote the
growth of Botulism.

James Curts

"R.L. McCarty" wrote in message
...


SNIP


James..good shot! The folks who insist on organic foods, good or bad,
are still at risk from E-coli because MIGRANT workers still pich the
food-stuffs and still go to the bathroom in the field outhouses without
washroom facilities. their
HANDS still are usually infected and E-coli STILL can be a problem! SOME
moron recently said that "organic foods need NOT be scrubbed"..c'mon
GymBob..get your head out of your E-coli bearing hole!

As fo cows milk..it WOULD be SAFE if only pasteurized...but
HOMOGENIZATION makaes it "poisoness" as the deadly , but huge "X-0"
enzyme in COW's milk is responsible for millions of folks havng LESIONS
in their hearts and other organs. Normally, it is so huge that it passes
on thru the system without harm...however when "micronized" by
homogenization...it becomes a killer, espcially to "WIC" confronted
babies. It CAN be MADE SAFE simply by bringing it up to a simmer and
then cooling over-night to re-coagulate the enzyme. It floats to the top
as an UGLY "pancake" and may be tossed or filtered out! The milk is THEN
very sweet and stays fresh much longer and is SAFE as well for all
users. "Simple answers for a deadly problem" . B-0b1

The "organic" crowd is always an advertising adversary for me. My produce is
raised hydroponically with zero pesticides, etc., etc.. The organic growers
prey on an unsuspecting market segment which is largely the yuppie crowd
which thinks they can live forever.

While the e-coli type of situations are not of such import to us the filthy
habits of others is, including their unrestricted use of chemical sprays,
etc.in these 2-1/2 and 3rd world places. NAFTA with all the wisdom behind it
allows these people to ship products, including cattle, almost
unrestrictedly into the US and compete with legitimate growers.

The Canadian folks benefit from the NAFTA arrangement also but do maintain
just as high of standards as the US. I have to say that as although I live
in the US my greenhouse interests are in Canada. NAFTA cuts both ways when
the exchange rate is right.

The organic lobby has glibly and ably sidestepped any serious set of growing
rules and guidelines to which they can be held accountable. At this time it
is merely a catch phrase with very little to recommend it.

James Curts

Hua Kul wrote:

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

The biggest problem with 157 is in the beef industry. Here it means that
slaughter cattle have to be clean before slaughter and by clean I mean no
muck buttons and no visible traces of muck. This means that these cattle
have to be trimmed out while still alive and there have been quite a few
people injured trying to do this.

The biggest problem in the US is the ignorance of the typical
consumer. Many people believe that the meat is somehow internally
infected with e.coli. But the bacterium exists in the steer's
digestive system and only contacts the meat through unhygenic
processes during slaughter. So when I buy a roast the only place
possibly contaminated would be the surface, and that can be washed off
or will be killed in the cooking. The problem arises when commercial
butchers pool and grind large quantities of beef into hamburger
several days before it is ever used, distributing the bacterium and
giving it a window to proliferate. A solution is to have one's beef
ground at the point of sale and use it soon after. Or do as I did,
purchase a meat grinder and do it at home.

--Hua Kul



Buy grinder..buy good chuck roasts and have at it...controlled fat
is the result and better meat as well. B-0b1

"R.L. McCarty" wrote in message
...
Jim Webster wrote:

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Hua Kul writes

A solution is to have one's beef
ground at the point of sale and use it soon after. Or do as I did,
purchase a meat grinder and do it at home.

Interesting, and a good point.

Yes, and one worth making. We have minced beef from our own bullock, but
it
is minced by our butcher and I then either make burgers or bag the mince
into 1lb packs before sticking it straight into the freezer. So he
minces
the animal at 3pm and by 8pm it is in the freezer.

Jim Webster

Jim my comments in the previous post...Milk CAN BE deadly if one BUYS
the LIES!! B-0b1

In the UK raw milk and meat aren't the big problem any more when you look at
actual casualties, main problem is probably poor hygiene at home and
catering,

Jim Webster

"R.L. McCarty" wrote in message
...
James Curts wrote:
E-coli bearing hole!

As fo cows milk..it WOULD be SAFE if only pasteurized...but
HOMOGENIZATION makaes it "poisoness" as the deadly , but huge "X-0"
enzyme in COW's milk is responsible for millions of folks havng LESIONS
in their hearts and other organs. Normally, it is so huge that it passes
on thru the system without harm...however when "micronized" by
homogenization...it becomes a killer, espcially to "WIC" confronted
babies. It CAN be MADE SAFE simply by bringing it up to a simmer and
then cooling over-night to re-coagulate the enzyme. It floats to the top
as an UGLY "pancake" and may be tossed or filtered out! The milk is THEN
very sweet and stays fresh much longer and is SAFE as well for all
users. "Simple answers for a deadly problem" . B-0b1

that pancake is protein, proteins are broken down when absorbed through the
intestine.

Jim Webster

"James Curts" wrote in message news:vcFRa.83470$N7.11293@sccrnsc03...
The biggest problem in the US is the ignorance of the typical
consumer. Many people believe that the meat is somehow internally
infected with e.coli. But the bacterium exists in the steer's
digestive system and only contacts the meat through unhygenic
processes during slaughter. So when I buy a roast the only place
possibly contaminated would be the surface, and that can be washed off
or will be killed in the cooking. The problem arises when commercial
butchers pool and grind large quantities of beef into hamburger
several days before it is ever used, distributing the bacterium and
giving it a window to proliferate. A solution is to have one's beef
ground at the point of sale and use it soon after. Or do as I did,
purchase a meat grinder and do it at home.

--Hua Kul



I'm sure you feel much better about yourself

How is it possible that you're "sure" of this? You don't know
anything about me, and you've made no effort to contact me.

now that you have typified the US consumer as ignorant.

Ignorance does not imply indifference, stupidity, or lack of
intelligence.

Your understanding of steer guts is commendable also.

The extremely simple concept of e. coli. not being present internally
in uncut meat is NOT common knowledge among many consumers with whom I
have discussed the issue. I draw my conclusions from my admittedly
small (compared to national population) sample.

The typical US consumer is probably as cognizant of food quality, purity and
nutritional value as any in modern nations today.

Then why do I get so many blank stares when I discuss the FFA content
of animal fats or vegatable oils? The vast majority of folks simply
DON'T know how dangerous to their health a high omega6mega3 ratio
is. They don't know that most farm raised fish are fed on a grain
based diet and therefore they are not getting the health benefit
claimed for fish oil intake. They don't understand the safety and
need for some saturated fats in their diets. They don't understand
that dietary cholesterol intake doesn't much influence their serum
cholesterol levels. The don't understand the HUGE increase in
vitamins in meat from grass fed livestock versus grain fed. They have
no clue how dangerous fructose is to our health, especially to those
who have a genetic deficiency that inhibits their production of
Insulin Receptor Substrate-1. I could go on and on.

With the properly written and implemented laws we have today regulating food
products there is little need for the person purchasing the family meal to
be knowledgeable about any particular health shortcomings of their choices.

This is one of the most elitest things you have yet said. First you
say that the typical consumer is not ignorant, then you say there is
no need for him to be educated. If you are putting your trust in "Big
Brother" your walking on a dangerous path. One of the most dangerous
foods on the market, man made trans fats, are not even required by the
government to be listed on food product labels.

My livelihood is food products which must satisfy the most exacting needs
and wants of consumers. This includes the demand for the best health
safeguards we have available today.

In my particular instance it concerns fresh produce and the vast majority of
the retail consumers are a very discerning and critical lot. The continual
barrage of information and disinformation displayed for public benefit has
the buying populace taking even more notice of what is in/on and part of a
given product. This is in large part due to the ambiguous claims of the
organic growers regarding pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers.

I don't believe that organic always means better, but I know that
environmental poisons can damage health, such as the increase in
breast cancer among women who work around pesticides. I don't believe
basic fertilizers are dangerous, but I also know that geographic
location has much more to do with nutritional quality of foods than
any fertilizers we might use. We apply three elements, but many other
nutrients, such as selenium, are more deficient in some soils than
others. If there were a fertilizer that would increase all the
beneficiel but lacking nutrients I would be in favor of applying that
to anything that grows. But only if the grower wants to use it. If
people want to purchase "organic" produce it shouldn't be kept off the
market. One of the outbreaks of e. coli. that got national attention
was in bottled apple juice. This could be eliminated if people would
press their own juices.

The organic faction has quite a following until tests show what is really in
the produce. One of our larger retail food chains in the area has ceased
selling organic labeled produce because of non-conformance to advertised
standards. The GM issue has even more folks taking notice and becoming more
aware of what they put into the shopping cart.

Starlink GM corn is now in about 70% of all corn products in the US,
but I'll bet you a couple of doughnuts that most people don't know
this.

The US consumer ignorant??

They certainly are not so ignorant as to buy/use products whose producers
deliberately circumvent the laws and regulations on which we rely to insure
the food we consume is wholesome.

Here's one small example of how the food industries in general
couldn't care less about consumer health if it affects their bottom
lines. It has been know for a long time that man made trans fats are
quite dangerous for our health, yet bakery producers keep using it
because it provides a good product texture that doesn't get soggy, and
it's cheap. If they wanted to do the best for us they would switch to
coconut or palm oils, which also stay hard at room temperature. It
was only lies from the grain oil industry that convinced US consumers
that the tropical oils are bad for us. In reality they're much more
healthy than vegetable oil-based trans fats.

--Hua Kul

"Hua Kul" wrote in message
om...
"James Curts" wrote in message
news:vcFRa.83470$N7.11293@sccrnsc03...
The biggest problem in the US is the ignorance of the typical
consumer. Many people believe that the meat is somehow internally
infected with e.coli. But the bacterium exists in the steer's
digestive system and only contacts the meat through unhygenic
processes during slaughter. So when I buy a roast the only place
possibly contaminated would be the surface, and that can be washed off
or will be killed in the cooking. The problem arises when commercial
butchers pool and grind large quantities of beef into hamburger
several days before it is ever used, distributing the bacterium and
giving it a window to proliferate. A solution is to have one's beef
ground at the point of sale and use it soon after. Or do as I did,
purchase a meat grinder and do it at home.

--Hua Kul



I'm sure you feel much better about yourself

How is it possible that you're "sure" of this? You don't know
anything about me, and you've made no effort to contact me.

now that you have typified the US consumer as ignorant.

Ignorance does not imply indifference, stupidity, or lack of
intelligence.

Your understanding of steer guts is commendable also.

The extremely simple concept of e. coli. not being present internally
in uncut meat is NOT common knowledge among many consumers with whom I
have discussed the issue. I draw my conclusions from my admittedly
small (compared to national population) sample.

The typical US consumer is probably as cognizant of food quality, purity
and
nutritional value as any in modern nations today.

Then why do I get so many blank stares when I discuss the FFA content
of animal fats or vegatable oils? The vast majority of folks simply
DON'T know how dangerous to their health a high omega6mega3 ratio
is. They don't know that most farm raised fish are fed on a grain
based diet and therefore they are not getting the health benefit
claimed for fish oil intake. They don't understand the safety and
need for some saturated fats in their diets. They don't understand
that dietary cholesterol intake doesn't much influence their serum
cholesterol levels. The don't understand the HUGE increase in
vitamins in meat from grass fed livestock versus grain fed. They have
no clue how dangerous fructose is to our health, especially to those
who have a genetic deficiency that inhibits their production of
Insulin Receptor Substrate-1. I could go on and on.

With the properly written and implemented laws we have today regulating
food
products there is little need for the person purchasing the family meal
to
be knowledgeable about any particular health shortcomings of their
choices.

This is one of the most elitest things you have yet said. First you
say that the typical consumer is not ignorant, then you say there is
no need for him to be educated. If you are putting your trust in "Big
Brother" your walking on a dangerous path. One of the most dangerous
foods on the market, man made trans fats, are not even required by the
government to be listed on food product labels.

My livelihood is food products which must satisfy the most exacting
needs
and wants of consumers. This includes the demand for the best health
safeguards we have available today.

In my particular instance it concerns fresh produce and the vast
majority of
the retail consumers are a very discerning and critical lot. The
continual
barrage of information and disinformation displayed for public benefit
has
the buying populace taking even more notice of what is in/on and part of
a
given product. This is in large part due to the ambiguous claims of the
organic growers regarding pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers.

I don't believe that organic always means better, but I know that
environmental poisons can damage health, such as the increase in
breast cancer among women who work around pesticides. I don't believe
basic fertilizers are dangerous, but I also know that geographic
location has much more to do with nutritional quality of foods than
any fertilizers we might use. We apply three elements, but many other
nutrients, such as selenium, are more deficient in some soils than
others. If there were a fertilizer that would increase all the
beneficiel but lacking nutrients I would be in favor of applying that
to anything that grows. But only if the grower wants to use it. If
people want to purchase "organic" produce it shouldn't be kept off the
market. One of the outbreaks of e. coli. that got national attention
was in bottled apple juice. This could be eliminated if people would
press their own juices.

The organic faction has quite a following until tests show what is
really in
the produce. One of our larger retail food chains in the area has ceased
selling organic labeled produce because of non-conformance to advertised
standards. The GM issue has even more folks taking notice and becoming
more
aware of what they put into the shopping cart.

Starlink GM corn is now in about 70% of all corn products in the US,
but I'll bet you a couple of doughnuts that most people don't know
this.

The US consumer ignorant??

They certainly are not so ignorant as to buy/use products whose
producers
deliberately circumvent the laws and regulations on which we rely to
insure
the food we consume is wholesome.

Here's one small example of how the food industries in general
couldn't care less about consumer health if it affects their bottom
lines. It has been know for a long time that man made trans fats are
quite dangerous for our health, yet bakery producers keep using it
because it provides a good product texture that doesn't get soggy, and
it's cheap. If they wanted to do the best for us they would switch to
coconut or palm oils, which also stay hard at room temperature. It
was only lies from the grain oil industry that convinced US consumers
that the tropical oils are bad for us. In reality they're much more
healthy than vegetable oil-based trans fats.

--Hua Kul




Uh, why, yes. But in spite of your wide range of reading material which most
of us are also cognizant of you will continue to receive the "blank stares"
when introducing them into a conversation in order to back up a claim some
segment of a populace is ignorant.

This is further compounded when standing for a group which openly defies
common sense food safety and health considerations.

I live in the Portland Oregon area and more specifically in the midst of the
electronics development facilities to the West of Portland. Due to the
highly diverse cultures represented in the populace and the considerably
higher than average personal incomes in this particular location there are
many many market places.

As my interests lie with food production, quality and the marketing of the
same, I will on occasion take part of a weekend and watch the food
purchasing process in full swing. While watching a person or family make
selections there are some obvious criteria used in the selection of items
for the cart. Advertising, flavor, packaging, portions, brand name,
appearance, preparation requirements, personal preference,
advice/recommendations from friends/family/sales person, past experiences
with a product, and others enter into the selection process. Ignorance of
the consumer is not one of the criteria used for selection of a food
product.

Twenty short miles to the West of this area are the agricultural
communities which consist of a totally different culture. The Mexican
populace whose wages are approximately 20-25% of the folks described in the
above paragraph and purchase a quite different variety of food products
display the identical shopping criteria and again, ignorance is not one of
them.

The Mexican folks, in general, have probably read nothing of the topics we
are discussing. However, they do display the same common sense, if not
significantly influenced by financial shortcomings, shown by their educated
and relatively wealthy counterparts from other parts of he world.

Perhaps you could take a couple of hours from your busy and productive life
and visit a market place. While there pose the question to a diligent
consumer "Did your ignorance enter into your deciding to choose that
product?"

Lasting Lessons can be obtained in various manners.

James Curts

"Hua Kul" wrote in message
om...
"James Curts" wrote in message
news:vcFRa.83470$N7.11293@sccrnsc03...
The biggest problem in the US is the ignorance of the typical
consumer. Many people believe that the meat is somehow internally
infected with e.coli. But the bacterium exists in the steer's
digestive system and only contacts the meat through unhygenic
processes during slaughter. So when I buy a roast the only place
possibly contaminated would be the surface, and that can be washed off
or will be killed in the cooking. The problem arises when commercial
butchers pool and grind large quantities of beef into hamburger
several days before it is ever used, distributing the bacterium and
giving it a window to proliferate. A solution is to have one's beef
ground at the point of sale and use it soon after. Or do as I did,
purchase a meat grinder and do it at home.

--Hua Kul



I'm sure you feel much better about yourself

How is it possible that you're "sure" of this? You don't know
anything about me, and you've made no effort to contact me.

now that you have typified the US consumer as ignorant.

Ignorance does not imply indifference, stupidity, or lack of
intelligence.

Your understanding of steer guts is commendable also.

The extremely simple concept of e. coli. not being present internally
in uncut meat is NOT common knowledge among many consumers with whom I
have discussed the issue. I draw my conclusions from my admittedly
small (compared to national population) sample.

The typical US consumer is probably as cognizant of food quality, purity
and
nutritional value as any in modern nations today.

Then why do I get so many blank stares when I discuss the FFA content
of animal fats or vegatable oils? The vast majority of folks simply
DON'T know how dangerous to their health a high omega6mega3 ratio
is. They don't know that most farm raised fish are fed on a grain
based diet and therefore they are not getting the health benefit
claimed for fish oil intake. They don't understand the safety and
need for some saturated fats in their diets. They don't understand
that dietary cholesterol intake doesn't much influence their serum
cholesterol levels. The don't understand the HUGE increase in
vitamins in meat from grass fed livestock versus grain fed. They have
no clue how dangerous fructose is to our health, especially to those
who have a genetic deficiency that inhibits their production of
Insulin Receptor Substrate-1. I could go on and on.

With the properly written and implemented laws we have today regulating
food
products there is little need for the person purchasing the family meal
to
be knowledgeable about any particular health shortcomings of their
choices.

This is one of the most elitest things you have yet said. First you
say that the typical consumer is not ignorant, then you say there is
no need for him to be educated. If you are putting your trust in "Big
Brother" your walking on a dangerous path. One of the most dangerous
foods on the market, man made trans fats, are not even required by the
government to be listed on food product labels.

My livelihood is food products which must satisfy the most exacting
needs
and wants of consumers. This includes the demand for the best health
safeguards we have available today.

In my particular instance it concerns fresh produce and the vast
majority of
the retail consumers are a very discerning and critical lot. The
continual
barrage of information and disinformation displayed for public benefit
has
the buying populace taking even more notice of what is in/on and part of
a
given product. This is in large part due to the ambiguous claims of the
organic growers regarding pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers.

I don't believe that organic always means better, but I know that
environmental poisons can damage health, such as the increase in
breast cancer among women who work around pesticides. I don't believe
basic fertilizers are dangerous, but I also know that geographic
location has much more to do with nutritional quality of foods than
any fertilizers we might use. We apply three elements, but many other
nutrients, such as selenium, are more deficient in some soils than
others. If there were a fertilizer that would increase all the
beneficiel but lacking nutrients I would be in favor of applying that
to anything that grows. But only if the grower wants to use it. If
people want to purchase "organic" produce it shouldn't be kept off the
market. One of the outbreaks of e. coli. that got national attention
was in bottled apple juice. This could be eliminated if people would
press their own juices.

The organic faction has quite a following until tests show what is
really in
the produce. One of our larger retail food chains in the area has ceased
selling organic labeled produce because of non-conformance to advertised
standards. The GM issue has even more folks taking notice and becoming
more
aware of what they put into the shopping cart.

Starlink GM corn is now in about 70% of all corn products in the US,
but I'll bet you a couple of doughnuts that most people don't know
this.

The US consumer ignorant??

They certainly are not so ignorant as to buy/use products whose
producers
deliberately circumvent the laws and regulations on which we rely to
insure
the food we consume is wholesome.

Here's one small example of how the food industries in general
couldn't care less about consumer health if it affects their bottom
lines. It has been know for a long time that man made trans fats are
quite dangerous for our health, yet bakery producers keep using it
because it provides a good product texture that doesn't get soggy, and
it's cheap. If they wanted to do the best for us they would switch to
coconut or palm oils, which also stay hard at room temperature. It
was only lies from the grain oil industry that convinced US consumers
that the tropical oils are bad for us. In reality they're much more
healthy than vegetable oil-based trans fats.

--Hua Kul




Uh, why, yes. But in spite of your wide range of reading material which most
of us are also cognizant of you will continue to receive the "blank stares"
when introducing them into a conversation in order to back up a claim some
segment of a populace is ignorant.

This is further compounded when standing for a group which openly defies
common sense food safety and health considerations.

I live in the Portland Oregon area and more specifically in the midst of the
electronics development facilities to the West of Portland. Due to the
highly diverse cultures represented in the populace and the considerably
higher than average personal incomes in this particular location there are
many many market places.

As my interests lie with food production, quality and the marketing of the
same, I will on occasion take part of a weekend and watch the food
purchasing process in full swing. While watching a person or family make
selections there are some obvious criteria used in the selection of items
for the cart. Advertising, flavor, packaging, portions, brand name,
appearance, preparation requirements, personal preference,
advice/recommendations from friends/family/sales person, past experiences
with a product, and others enter into the selection process. Ignorance of
the consumer is not one of the criteria used for selection of a food
product.

Twenty short miles to the West of this area are the agricultural
communities which consist of a totally different culture. The Mexican
populace whose wages are approximately 20-25% of the folks described in the
above paragraph and purchase a quite different variety of food products
display the identical shopping criteria and again, ignorance is not one of
them.

The Mexican folks, in general, have probably read nothing of the topics we
are discussing. However, they do display the same common sense, if not
significantly influenced by financial shortcomings, shown by their educated
and relatively wealthy counterparts from other parts of he world.

Perhaps you could take a couple of hours from your busy and productive life
and visit a market place. While there pose the question to a diligent
consumer "Did your ignorance enter into your deciding to choose that
product?"

Lasting Lessons can be obtained in various manners.

James Curts

"James Curts" wrote in message
news:yDXRa.78891$OZ2.13823@rwcrnsc54...


Perhaps you could take a couple of hours from your busy and productive
life
and visit a market place. While there pose the question to a diligent
consumer "Did your ignorance enter into your deciding to choose that
product?"

Lasting Lessons can be obtained in various manners.

not only that, but can we know in advance which market then we get to sell
tickets

Jim Webster


James Curts

"James Curts" wrote in message
news:yDXRa.78891$OZ2.13823@rwcrnsc54...


Perhaps you could take a couple of hours from your busy and productive
life
and visit a market place. While there pose the question to a diligent
consumer "Did your ignorance enter into your deciding to choose that
product?"

Lasting Lessons can be obtained in various manners.

not only that, but can we know in advance which market then we get to sell
tickets

Jim Webster


James Curts

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"James Curts" wrote in message
news:yDXRa.78891$OZ2.13823@rwcrnsc54...


Perhaps you could take a couple of hours from your busy and productive
life
and visit a market place. While there pose the question to a diligent
consumer "Did your ignorance enter into your deciding to choose that
product?"

Lasting Lessons can be obtained in various manners.

not only that, but can we know in advance which market then we get to sell
tickets

Jim Webster


James Curts



Grin.....

James Curts