"James Curts" wrote in message
news:lEiOa.127610$R73.15357@sccrnsc04...
One short question: Is e. coli157:H7 the only issue of concern with the
pasteurization of milk in these instances?


No, in the UK I would say that the big ones are TB and Brucella

Jim Webster

Thank you

James Curts


"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f0769c5$1_4@newsfeed...


When people visinting farms started getting e. coli157:H7 they tested
all
the dairy families and people who had been around cattle and found
many
had
anybodies ageist it yet none had every had a fully expressed case of
the
disease. The same is probably true for several other pathogens on the
farm.


While we were milking we got a letter from a chap at one of the
universities
who wanted to test our herd for e coli 157. The problem was, if we had
found
it, given the panic at the time, our milk buyer would have stopped
collecting it until we had treated all the animals, whereas as the milk
was
all pasteurised it isn't a problem anyway. So having them tested was a
no-brainer. I phoned the chap and had a chat with him and discovered
everyone else had worked this out as well.
The biggest problem with 157 is in the beef industry. Here it means that
slaughter cattle have to be clean before slaughter and by clean I mean
no
muck buttons and no visible traces of muck. This means that these cattle
have to be trimmed out while still alive and there have been quite a few
people injured trying to do this.

In the US e. coli157:H7 is putting the pressure on pasteurizing
everything.
And if they force the little apple grower to pasteurize his apple
juice
they
have to force everyone to pasteurize every thing. Every year or two we
have
a problem with unpasteurized milk. Often it is not from the dairy but
on
of
the people handling the milk. But we don't have these problems from
pasteurized milk. From a public health point of view the answer is
very
simple, pasture anything that can grow bacteria and you have less
disease.

I have never been able to under stand the panic that mad cow continues
to
cause when it caused about the same number of deaths that are cased
by
unpasturised cheese. You defend one and wreck your economy over the
other.
I can understand the panic at the time but to continue the charade
after
the
problem is understood is foolish.

Mad cow just cost Canada millions of dollars and there was never a
measurable risk to anyone. The US cattle market sure benefited from
it.


The UK Food Standards Agency is consulting on getting rid of OTMS (for
our
non-UK readers this is the Over Thirty Month Scheme where bovines do not
enter the food chain once they get over thirty months old but are
incinerated
instead.)

To maintain the current system is estimated to cost £736 million,
To go over to testing individual animals like the rest of Europe will
probably cost £48 million.
The estimate is that the OTMS scheme probably prevents 1 case of nvCJD a
year; out of 80+ a year anyway.

Interestingly Susan Myles et al have produced a paper quoted by the FSA
report. Basically you have to put a cost on the results of car
accidents,
kidney
failure etc so you can do the equivalent of financial triage to put the
money where it will do most good.
It is estimated by the NHS that they have an average cost of £50,000 per
nvCJD patient. Susan Myles calculates the costs for the family at a
median
cost of £32,000.

Hence currently we are burning £736 million to save one life and
£82,000.
Admittedly this is not an uncommon sort of occurrence in the course of
the
BSE epidemic.
Indeed at 90 cases a year, the cost is about £7.3 million. Given that
there
is as much emotional pain and suffering for families who's loved ones
die
of
other diseases, I suspect that nvCJD is going to drop well down the list
for
research priorities and a lot of researchers who have made a good living
out
of the disease are going to have to find a new field of endeavour.

Jim Webster.

Gordon

It is costing Canada millions a *DAY*. Many family run operations are
suffering severe financial pain and may have to shut down as a result.

The US keeps the border closed to Canadian beef while there is a one
in 20 chance that the cow actually came from the US. Go figure.

TC

As someone who has lived through this at the sharp end, the Canadians have
my sincere sympathy. Like most UK farmers we could offer advice but I do
offer my best wishes

Jim Webster

Jim Webster writes

As someone who has lived through this at the sharp end, the Canadians have
my sincere sympathy. Like most UK farmers we could offer advice but I do
offer my best wishes

Seconded.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Jim Webster writes

As someone who has lived through this at the sharp end, the Canadians
have
my sincere sympathy. Like most UK farmers we could offer advice but I do
offer my best wishes

Seconded.

I see they are trying to get is squared up the end buy the end of July.

If we don't close our borders to Canada the rest of the world will close
theirs to us. Japan seriously considered stopping US beef as well becuse
practically there is little distinction between US and Canada in trading
cattle across the border. The guys up north don't like it much because they
feel the Canadian cattle hurt their prices. But that has been a long running
battle between the US and Canada all my life. The guys from Canada come down
and cut wheat for 10% less than the guys in the US can because they don't
have to pay taxes on the money made in the US and we have to pay taxes on
money made in Canada. We are the only country that taxes income made in
other countries. I have a friend living out side of London that avoid paying
taxes anywhere most of his life. He worked for one of the oil companies in
as a geologist in the north sea. When they want to transfer him back to the
US to Houston he quit and when into consulting. Siberia he might have
considered but not Houston.

Gordon

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f091b24_3@newsfeed...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Jim Webster writes

As someone who has lived through this at the sharp end, the Canadians
have
my sincere sympathy. Like most UK farmers we could offer advice but I
do
offer my best wishes

Seconded.

I see they are trying to get is squared up the end buy the end of July.

If we don't close our borders to Canada the rest of the world will close
theirs to us. Japan seriously considered stopping US beef as well becuse
practically there is little distinction between US and Canada in trading
cattle across the border. The guys up north don't like it much because
they
feel the Canadian cattle hurt their prices. But that has been a long
running
battle between the US and Canada all my life. The guys from Canada come
down
and cut wheat for 10% less than the guys in the US can because they don't
have to pay taxes on the money made in the US and we have to pay taxes on
money made in Canada.




We are the only country that taxes income made in
other countries.

Please, Gordon, study the U.S.A., Canada treaty a little closer that
that. It states:

"Income U.S.A. residents recieve for the performance of dependent
personal services in Canada(except as public entertainers) is exempt from
Canadian tax if it is not more than $10,000 in Canadian currency for the
year. If it is more than $10,000 for the year, it is exempt only if:

1) The residents are present in Canada for nor more than 183 days
during the calender year, and

2) The income is not borne by a Canadian resident employer or by a
permanent establishment or fixed base of an employer in Canada.

This treaty works both ways. You can replace the word Canada with
the U.S.A in the example above. In other words, when the custom harvesters
come up here,(there are a lot of them), it makes for the same situation.


Now that I've said that:

"When a Canadian resident is transferred to the U.S. for a short
term assignment, the starting point for saving taxes is determining whether
it is possible to break Canadian residence. A Canadian resident is subject
to Canadian tax on global income regardless of the source of the income or
where it is paid. A non-resident of Canada would be subject to Canadian tax
only on income from Canadin sources. Since the U.S. tax rates are typically
much lower than Canadian rates, it is generally advantageous to be taxable
in the U.S. rather than in Canada." Check out the following link. It
illustrates the tax liability as a resident of Canada as compared to the
taxes payable as a resident of the U.S. at different income levels.

http://www.grasmick.com/lesstax.htm


Not as rosy as you thought is was, now is it??????




Dean

















I have a friend living out side of London that avoid paying
taxes anywhere most of his life. He worked for one of the oil companies in
as a geologist in the north sea. When they want to transfer him back to
the
US to Houston he quit and when into consulting. Siberia he might have
considered but not Houston.

Gordon

"James Curts" wrote in message news:UpWNa.49412$926.5334@sccrnsc03...

The Amish should only force their illiteracy on themselves.

Actually, they read quite well.

--Hua Kul

Ah, yes, but to inconsequential avail. Other than suppressing their own kind
and preventing their youth from joining and advancing with the rest of the
modern world their small cult survives by enforcing a form of
isolationalism.

Yet another form of a religious pestilence which only survives by rote of
one man having indisputable control over another. This is one of the issues
which separate civilized people from those of other harshly suppressed
groups through out the third world areas

We certainly do not need their crude products dispersed among the
unsuspecting.

James Curts


"Hua Kul" wrote in message
om...
"James Curts" wrote in message
news:UpWNa.49412$926.5334@sccrnsc03...

The Amish should only force their illiteracy on themselves.

Actually, they read quite well.

--Hua Kul

Ah, yes, but to inconsequential avail. Other than suppressing their own kind
and preventing their youth from joining and advancing with the rest of the
modern world their small cult survives by enforcing a form of
isolationalism.

Yet another form of a religious pestilence which only survives by rote of
one man having indisputable control over another. This is one of the issues
which separate civilized people from those of other harshly suppressed
groups through out the third world areas

We certainly do not need their crude products dispersed among the
unsuspecting.

James Curts


"Hua Kul" wrote in message
om...
"James Curts" wrote in message
news:UpWNa.49412$926.5334@sccrnsc03...

The Amish should only force their illiteracy on themselves.

Actually, they read quite well.

--Hua Kul

"James Curts" wrote in message news:UpWNa.49412$926.5334@sccrnsc03...
The Amish should only force their illiteracy on themselves.

I got the impression that's what they were doing, only the government
was stepping in and saying `we know best`.

Their refusal to
move along with the times is yet another form of control of one man over
others and has little of merit on which to proceed.

If that's what they want to do, shouldn't that be the only reason they
need?

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f0769c5$1_4@newsfeed...
In the US e. coli157:H7 is putting the pressure on pasteurizing everything.

Those damned bacteria with their superior lobbying skills...

Perhaps, but when they try to sell an ambiguous product the public the door
is rightfully opened for governmental intervention. In this instance
government does work.

James Curts


"Fred Bloggs" wrote in message
m...
"James Curts" wrote in message
news:UpWNa.49412$926.5334@sccrnsc03...
The Amish should only force their illiteracy on themselves.

I got the impression that's what they were doing, only the government
was stepping in and saying `we know best`.

Their refusal to
move along with the times is yet another form of control of one man over
others and has little of merit on which to proceed.

If that's what they want to do, shouldn't that be the only reason they
need?

To continue, we have mentally disadvantaged religious sects in this country
who will allow their children to die from relatively minor ailments and
injuries. Thankfully they are being rooted out and the abusers are finding
homes in jails and the rest are being encouraged to join the more wise
thinkers of their race.

I cannot in any manner condone the refusal to use all of today's common
sense tools to improve, protect and promote human life and particular for
our children.

James Curts


"Fred Bloggs" wrote in message
m...
"James Curts" wrote in message
news:UpWNa.49412$926.5334@sccrnsc03...
The Amish should only force their illiteracy on themselves.

I got the impression that's what they were doing, only the government
was stepping in and saying `we know best`.

Their refusal to
move along with the times is yet another form of control of one man over
others and has little of merit on which to proceed.

If that's what they want to do, shouldn't that be the only reason they
need?

To continue, we have mentally disadvantaged religious sects in this country
who will allow their children to die from relatively minor ailments and
injuries. Thankfully they are being rooted out and the abusers are finding
homes in jails and the rest are being encouraged to join the more wise
thinkers of their race.

I cannot in any manner condone the refusal to use all of today's common
sense tools to improve, protect and promote human life and particular for
our children.

James Curts


"Fred Bloggs" wrote in message
m...
"James Curts" wrote in message
news:UpWNa.49412$926.5334@sccrnsc03...
The Amish should only force their illiteracy on themselves.

I got the impression that's what they were doing, only the government
was stepping in and saying `we know best`.

Their refusal to
move along with the times is yet another form of control of one man over
others and has little of merit on which to proceed.

If that's what they want to do, shouldn't that be the only reason they
need?

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...


"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f091b24_3@newsfeed...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Jim Webster writes

As someone who has lived through this at the sharp end, the Canadians
have
my sincere sympathy. Like most UK farmers we could offer advice but I
do
offer my best wishes

Seconded.

I see they are trying to get is squared up the end buy the end of July.

If we don't close our borders to Canada the rest of the world will close
theirs to us. Japan seriously considered stopping US beef as well becuse
practically there is little distinction between US and Canada in trading
cattle across the border. The guys up north don't like it much because
they
feel the Canadian cattle hurt their prices. But that has been a long
running
battle between the US and Canada all my life. The guys from Canada come
down
and cut wheat for 10% less than the guys in the US can because they
don't
have to pay taxes on the money made in the US and we have to pay taxes
on
money made in Canada.




We are the only country that taxes income made in
other countries.

Please, Gordon, study the U.S.A., Canada treaty a little closer that
that. It states:

"Income U.S.A. residents recieve for the performance of dependent
personal services in Canada(except as public entertainers) is exempt from
Canadian tax if it is not more than $10,000 in Canadian currency for the
year. If it is more than $10,000 for the year, it is exempt only if:

1) The residents are present in Canada for nor more than 183 days
during the calender year, and

2) The income is not borne by a Canadian resident employer or by a
permanent establishment or fixed base of an employer in Canada.

This treaty works both ways. You can replace the word Canada with
the U.S.A in the example above. In other words, when the custom harvesters
come up here,(there are a lot of them), it makes for the same situation.


Now that I've said that:

"When a Canadian resident is transferred to the U.S. for a short
term assignment, the starting point for saving taxes is determining
whether
it is possible to break Canadian residence. A Canadian resident is subject
to Canadian tax on global income regardless of the source of the income or
where it is paid. A non-resident of Canada would be subject to Canadian
tax
only on income from Canadin sources. Since the U.S. tax rates are
typically
much lower than Canadian rates, it is generally advantageous to be taxable
in the U.S. rather than in Canada." Check out the following link. It
illustrates the tax liability as a resident of Canada as compared to the
taxes payable as a resident of the U.S. at different income levels.

http://www.grasmick.com/lesstax.htm


Not as rosy as you thought is was, now is it??????


Your as bad as we are. It is making the Caribbean Islands a popular place to
set up businesses with very low income taxes and very closed mouthed about
their business. The US is driving major corporations off shore. Last time I
was in Canada I read an article it was a problem there as well.

I do know one fellow that never stays in any country 6 months. He can work
were every he can connect to the internet the company he works for is
incorporated under one of the convenient flags that aren't very communicate
about tax matters. I expect he will tire of it one day but at 28 and newly
married it is a nice honeymoon.

There are inequities on both sides of the border that are attractive to
people living on the border. I always buy a bunch of mercury camera
batteries when I am up there. They are outlawed down here. You meat in
Vancouver was a better buy than it was in Oklahoma the last time I was
there.

Your sales taxes smart a bit but we are going to catch up a lot over then
next couple of years.

Gordon

Gordon

On 6 Jul 2003 03:02:24 -0700, (Hua Kul) wrote:

MO0$H wrote in message . ..
On 5 Jul 2003 14:26:25 -0700, (Ron) wrote:


If your corporations are not doing as you wish, get out and vote for a
regulator that will make them do so.

Let me fill you in on what your omniscient regulators are doing in the
US.

Not my regulators, Sunshine. I vote for mine with a view to doing the
best for the Australian community.

They are forbidding the Amish farmers in my home state from
selling their milk. The Amish don't practice pasteurization.

Seems fair enough. Public safety and all that. Why won't they make it
safe by pasteurisation? Same reason they wear those silly hats?

It
doesn't matter if I want to drink their milk anyway, I have to be
protected from their *evil* old-fashioned practice, which somehow was
good enough for thousands of years.

If you drank the milk and got ill, who would have to look after you
and yours? The public purse? If you could arrange to sign a legal
waiver of your (and your dependents') civil rights here, you probably
would be allowed to buy it.

Else you could start your own country with your own rules.