"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f067907_4@newsfeed...

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked
to
has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of
grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him
money
in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to
the
mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did
business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous
to
use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not
to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost
your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on
cereals
in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to
the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield
losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you
sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can
be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto
here
in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with
crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've
sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

Dean,

All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much.
Since
he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it
if
he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and
Puma would make him money on every turn of the card.

He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the
full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure
dockage
and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them
as
customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op
is
going broke.

High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days
before
harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard
of.
Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly
common
time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the
two
driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance
of
the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close
to
80% if you add the first two weeks of April.

There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that
long
hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is
not
because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats.
I
know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to
slow
things down.

Gordon

Gordon,
What kind of cropping system is used primarily? Is it
conventional, min-til, no-til? Are you aware of triallate? It's sold under
the name Avadex. It's very old chemistry, but very effective.Of course it
won't be used in a no or min til situation, but under conventional
methods,
it fits very well.
By the way, what's the crop looking like in that part of the
world? We were struggling for rain, as we've only had 1.5 inches since May
1. Last night we had another inch, and for all intents and purposes,
hopefully have given the crops a reprieve for maybe a week or two. Should
see a few smiles around here for a couple of days.

Dean,

In Central Illinois, we too are in need of rain. Scab is spotty but
moderately intense where present and is receiving a moderate amount of
press. Last night I thought we might get some rain but it skirted to
northern Illinois. Some of the earlier planted corn is now tasseling;
however, some varieties are "onion leafing" and could definitely use some
water.

Dave

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f067907_4@newsfeed...

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked
to
has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of
grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him
money
in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to
the
mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did
business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous
to
use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not
to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost
your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on
cereals
in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to
the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield
losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you
sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can
be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto
here
in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with
crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've
sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

Dean,

All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much.
Since
he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it
if
he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and
Puma would make him money on every turn of the card.

He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the
full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure
dockage
and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them
as
customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op
is
going broke.

High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days
before
harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard
of.
Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly
common
time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the
two
driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance
of
the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close
to
80% if you add the first two weeks of April.

There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that
long
hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is
not
because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats.
I
know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to
slow
things down.

Gordon

Gordon,
What kind of cropping system is used primarily? Is it
conventional, min-til, no-til? Are you aware of triallate? It's sold under
the name Avadex. It's very old chemistry, but very effective.Of course it
won't be used in a no or min til situation, but under conventional
methods,
it fits very well.
By the way, what's the crop looking like in that part of the
world? We were struggling for rain, as we've only had 1.5 inches since May
1. Last night we had another inch, and for all intents and purposes,
hopefully have given the crops a reprieve for maybe a week or two. Should
see a few smiles around here for a couple of days.


Dean,

Wheat is conventional tillage with the exception of wheat seed diuretically
into cotton stalks after harvest. There a tandem disk and drill are pulled
over the uncut stalks and un worked land as soon as the cotton is harvested.
The expected yield is 15 bu and acre with out fertilizer and 25 bu and acre
with fertilizer. We often use this for seed wheat plots since we can be sure
that they are not contaminated with volunteer.

We have tried a number of no till schemes on wheat over the last 20 year and
they don't work out very well. One of the reasons is most of the value in
wheat in that area is in wheat pasture and that of course does not work with
no till because of soil compaction. I have produced over 1,000 # per acre of
live beef on the best year I had and I can count on 200 pounds on harvested
wheat and 500 on grazed out wheat. With beef at 75 cents a pound pasture is
an important part of a lot of wheat growers programs. About a third of the
time you can get away with out feeding any hay at all to calves on wheat
pasture.

With grazing producing as much or more money as the grain and not costing
anything but some extra nitrogen we have not explored no till wheat very
much. With 300 dollar a ton nitrogen things might look different.

Down in Tillman county up until a week before father's day it was so dry
only a few fellows got corn up. Since then it has rained so much it has been
hard to get and keep as stand of cotton and the guys that got their corn up
will make 150 bushels or better. Here at Stillwater we are dry. We got a
had 4 inch rain in a few minutes a couple of weeks ago that filled up the
ponds but most of it ran off. We don't have any subsoil moisture anywhere in
the state. In west Texas where the rain doesn't matter a storm took out the
cotton and we have poverty peas (soy beans) and milo on the drip and center
pivot irrigation. I haven't been down to the ranch south of Vernon Texas
this year we rent that to my mother's cousin but they missed the early
spring grass. It should be growing fine now but it was a long dry winter
after a dry year. It will take a wet summer to get them back in good shape.
A betting on a wet summer there is poor bet.

Gordon

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f067907_4@newsfeed...

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked
to
has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of
grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him
money
in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to
the
mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did
business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous
to
use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not
to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost
your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on
cereals
in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to
the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield
losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you
sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can
be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto
here
in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with
crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've
sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

Dean,

All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much.
Since
he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it
if
he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and
Puma would make him money on every turn of the card.

He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the
full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure
dockage
and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them
as
customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op
is
going broke.

High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days
before
harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard
of.
Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly
common
time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the
two
driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance
of
the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close
to
80% if you add the first two weeks of April.

There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that
long
hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is
not
because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats.
I
know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to
slow
things down.

Gordon

Gordon,
What kind of cropping system is used primarily? Is it
conventional, min-til, no-til? Are you aware of triallate? It's sold under
the name Avadex. It's very old chemistry, but very effective.Of course it
won't be used in a no or min til situation, but under conventional
methods,
it fits very well.
By the way, what's the crop looking like in that part of the
world? We were struggling for rain, as we've only had 1.5 inches since May
1. Last night we had another inch, and for all intents and purposes,
hopefully have given the crops a reprieve for maybe a week or two. Should
see a few smiles around here for a couple of days.


Dean,

Wheat is conventional tillage with the exception of wheat seed diuretically
into cotton stalks after harvest. There a tandem disk and drill are pulled
over the uncut stalks and un worked land as soon as the cotton is harvested.
The expected yield is 15 bu and acre with out fertilizer and 25 bu and acre
with fertilizer. We often use this for seed wheat plots since we can be sure
that they are not contaminated with volunteer.

We have tried a number of no till schemes on wheat over the last 20 year and
they don't work out very well. One of the reasons is most of the value in
wheat in that area is in wheat pasture and that of course does not work with
no till because of soil compaction. I have produced over 1,000 # per acre of
live beef on the best year I had and I can count on 200 pounds on harvested
wheat and 500 on grazed out wheat. With beef at 75 cents a pound pasture is
an important part of a lot of wheat growers programs. About a third of the
time you can get away with out feeding any hay at all to calves on wheat
pasture.

With grazing producing as much or more money as the grain and not costing
anything but some extra nitrogen we have not explored no till wheat very
much. With 300 dollar a ton nitrogen things might look different.

Down in Tillman county up until a week before father's day it was so dry
only a few fellows got corn up. Since then it has rained so much it has been
hard to get and keep as stand of cotton and the guys that got their corn up
will make 150 bushels or better. Here at Stillwater we are dry. We got a
had 4 inch rain in a few minutes a couple of weeks ago that filled up the
ponds but most of it ran off. We don't have any subsoil moisture anywhere in
the state. In west Texas where the rain doesn't matter a storm took out the
cotton and we have poverty peas (soy beans) and milo on the drip and center
pivot irrigation. I haven't been down to the ranch south of Vernon Texas
this year we rent that to my mother's cousin but they missed the early
spring grass. It should be growing fine now but it was a long dry winter
after a dry year. It will take a wet summer to get them back in good shape.
A betting on a wet summer there is poor bet.

Gordon

"An environmental assessment of Roundup Ready(R) Wheat:
Risks for direct seeding systems in Western Canada.
by RC Van Acker,AL Brúle-Babel and LF Friesen

The report concludes:
"The unconfined release of Roundup Ready wheat will negatively
affect the environment and limit farmer's ability to conserve
natural ressources on farms in western Canada. The effect of this
novel product will have is unique because of the nature of the
trait involved and its relationsship to the way in which crops
are farmed in western Canada. Under current conditions the release
of Roundup Ready wheat in western Canada would be environmentally
unsafe."


full text of report:
http://www.cwb.ca/en/topics/biotechn...pdf/070803.pdf