Instead of screwing the world's poor with nightmares like the
"Terminator Gene," wouldn't it be great if the biotech firms could
come up with things like:
1) Splice together the bottom of a carrot and the top of a
cabbage.
2) Join together salt marsh plants with rice.
These two would go a long way to relieve world hunger. Then for
disease:
3) Develop a virus that attacks cancer cells.
4) Develop other viruses that attack infectous bacteria.

No, I'm not some kind of Pollyanna, I'm usually very cynical.And some
of these ideas may be naive, I am not a biologist. But I wanted to
offer people something nice to think about for Christmas. Have a merry
one, and feel free to add to the list.

The termator gene has it's place. Contorling volenter crops is one and
protecting intlectelual propety is a legtiment use. Cosider cotton in India.
To protect the BT genetics and all other genetics in India they use hybred
cotton. No place else in the world uses hybred cotton. In the case of BT
cotton in India the hybridization is done by hand. Each bloom must be
emasulated by hand and covered with a bag and then a few days later the bag
much be reomved and the flower fertized by hand. Each bloom produces 4 or 5
seeds. It takes at least 20 or 30 seconds for each bloom and if the BT
cotton doubles the yeild of Indain cotton it takes about 8,000 seeds to make
a 480 pound bale of cotton or 1600 blooms or about 2.5 hours of hand labor
to produce the seed.

The breeders are going to protect their investment or not make it. Is it
better for the farmer to pay for 2.5 hours of labor to hybidize the seed so
he can't replant it or for the breeder to use a less expensive technology to
protect his investment.

I was farming before the plant protecton laws went in to effect in the US
and the progress in cotton move at a snails pace. One man would work with
one variaty all his life. With the plant protection act there was suddenly a
lot of new cotton to choose from. You don't get improved varities for free.
Someone has to pay for the work to develop them. All the goverments but
China have paractialy quit funding ag research so do you want to just quit
developing new varities?

More things will come with time but the big things come first. The boll worm
and it relitives are the number one pest in the world and the BT protien a
natural protien that kills them. Round Up resistance was easy to do and has
allowed millons of acres to reverse the loss of organic matter in the soil
for the first time in crops like cotton and soybean. When used for notil
cropping it is the biggest step in stopping soil erosion in my life.

What has already been done is the biggest postive step in imporoveing
framings impact on the envionment in history and you bitch about it?

Gordon

Gordon

"jitney" wrote in message
om...
Instead of screwing the world's poor with nightmares like the
"Terminator Gene," wouldn't it be great if the biotech firms could
come up with things like:
1) Splice together the bottom of a carrot and the top of a
cabbage.
2) Join together salt marsh plants with rice.
These two would go a long way to relieve world hunger. Then for
disease:
3) Develop a virus that attacks cancer cells.
4) Develop other viruses that attack infectous bacteria.

No, I'm not some kind of Pollyanna, I'm usually very cynical.And some
of these ideas may be naive, I am not a biologist. But I wanted to
offer people something nice to think about for Christmas. Have a merry
one, and feel free to add to the list.

jitney writes

4) Develop other viruses that attack infectous bacteria.

Selection of bacteriophages for human treatment is used in russia.
It was documented on an Horizon programme some years ago.

They get the strains from the hospital sewage, but need to continually
select new strains as the bacteria move to resistant populations.

It seemed to be surprisingly effective.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 05:25:16 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

Round Up resistance was easy to do and has
allowed millons of acres to reverse the loss of organic matter in the soil
for the first time in crops like cotton and soybean. When used for notil
cropping it is the biggest step in stopping soil erosion in my life.

How do you explain there is no step in data?
http://www.agriculture.com/sfonline/...bean_chart.gif

"Gordon Couger"

What has already been done is the biggest postive step in imporoveing
framings impact on the envionment in history and you bitch about it?

Gordon

Gordon

Merry Christmas to you too. You have made some good points. My concern
about the terminator gene has to do with its accidental (or
intentional?) transfer into the wider gene pool, causing a permanent
dependance on the seed companies. It is a power that I would rather
wish that private companies or individuals not have. And yes, we do
need more government research.
Now, if they could only eliminate that bad spelling DNA from the
human genome...-Jitney

"jitney" wrote in message
om...
"Gordon Couger"

What has already been done is the biggest postive step in imporoveing
framings impact on the envionment in history and you bitch about it?

Gordon

Gordon

Merry Christmas to you too. You have made some good points. My concern
about the terminator gene has to do with its accidental (or
intentional?) transfer into the wider gene pool, causing a permanent
dependance on the seed companies. It is a power that I would rather
wish that private companies or individuals not have. And yes, we do
need more government research.
Now, if they could only eliminate that bad spelling DNA from the
human genome...-Jitney

It's transfer to the wider gene pool is self limiting. It does not germinate
so it can't contaminate more than a fraction of the crop and that that is
does containate doesn't reproduce.

Patents don't have an infine life. As soon as the patent expires that gene
is free for anyone to use and can be incorperated into the varities that the
farmers keep for themselves. They would never get the gentics any other way.
I have farmed most of my life and many years I raised seed wheat many years
for my self and others. Buying better seed is the best bargin I ever made.

Farmers will only buy patented seed if it makes them money. No one holds a
gun to our head and makes us buy seed except in a few areas that limit the
varities to assure unifomity. In India half the cotton seed sold is hybred
that is worthless for replanting. India also has a problem with seed dealers
that sell seed that doesn't germinate. Western bussiness practice is a lot
better than what they have today.

Gordon

Nine million acres over seven years is pretty damn big step. Just a 60%
incerase. Farmers are pretty conservitive folks. They don't change fast.
They work out the problems and test things for several years before going
whole hog for it. No till won't really take off in cotton until the next
generation of RR cotton comes out in 2004 or 2005 that can be sprayed any
time during the season.



Gordon

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 05:25:16 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

Round Up resistance was easy to do and has
allowed millons of acres to reverse the loss of organic matter in the
soil
for the first time in crops like cotton and soybean. When used for notil
cropping it is the biggest step in stopping soil erosion in my life.

How do you explain there is no step in data?
http://www.agriculture.com/sfonline/...bean_chart.gif

On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 22:59:17 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

Nine million acres over seven years is pretty damn big step.

At least I now have you looking at the data, albeit with a sad degree
of incomprehension :-). Try again.

http://www.agriculture.com/sfonline/...bean_chart.gif

--- Where is the step you attribute to RR soya seen in data? ----


On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 05:25:16 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

Round Up resistance was easy to do and has
allowed millons of acres to reverse the loss of organic matter in the
soil
for the first time in crops like cotton and soybean. When used for notil
cropping it is the biggest step in stopping soil erosion in my life.

How do you explain there is no step in data?
http://www.agriculture.com/sfonline/...bean_chart.gif

(jitney) wrote in message . com...
Instead of screwing the world's poor with nightmares like the
"Terminator Gene," wouldn't it be great if the biotech firms could
come up with things like:
1) Splice together the bottom of a carrot and the top of a
cabbage.

Radish with a tender top.

Right now, radish can be cooked like turnips (except a lot better
tasting) and the tops can be chopped and cooked as greens, but they
aren't any tastier than collard greens by the time the bottem is ready
for harvest.

In article ,
says...
Instead of screwing the world's poor with nightmares like the
"Terminator Gene,"

The terminator gene is not being deployed. This decision was made two
years ago. You are a bit out of date.

wouldn't it be great if the biotech firms could
come up with things like:
1) Splice together the bottom of a carrot and the top of a
cabbage.

Isn't this known as the beet? Beet greens are known as chard, and it is
quite a tasty and nutritious vegetable. Beet bottoms are, of course,
known as beets, and are also a tasty and nutritious vegetable.

2) Join together salt marsh plants with rice.
These two would go a long way to relieve world hunger.

This has been done, and work is continuing. Many of the vegetables in
the Middle East, particularly, are grown from salt resistant strains.

Then for disease:
3) Develop a virus that attacks cancer cells.

This is probably not necessary or desirable, but viruses are showing
great promise for gene therapy for diseases like cystic fibrosis.

4) Develop other viruses that attack infectous bacteria.

Bacteria would quickly develop resistant strains to any virus that wasn't
100% lethal.

No, I'm not some kind of Pollyanna, I'm usually very cynical.And some
of these ideas may be naive, I am not a biologist. But I wanted to
offer people something nice to think about for Christmas. Have a merry
one, and feel free to add to the list.

On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:57:30 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

Isn't this known as the beet? Beet greens are known as chard, and it is
quite a tasty and nutritious vegetable. Beet bottoms are, of course,
known as beets, and are also a tasty and nutritious vegetable.

Wouldn't it be cool if beets had *real blood? :-)

Then for disease:
3) Develop a virus that attacks cancer cells.

This is probably not necessary or desirable, but viruses are showing
great promise for gene therapy for diseases like cystic fibrosis.


Good memory Larry!

Wonder what ever happened to the child that was given gene therapy for CF
several months back? I suppose if it had been 100% successful, it would have
made big headlines by now.

Bob

On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:57:30 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Instead of screwing the world's poor with nightmares like the
"Terminator Gene,"

The terminator gene is not being deployed. This decision was made two
years ago. You are a bit out of date.

wouldn't it be great if the biotech firms could
come up with things like:
1) Splice together the bottom of a carrot and the top of a
cabbage.

Isn't this known as the beet? Beet greens are known as chard, and it is
quite a tasty and nutritious vegetable. Beet bottoms are, of course,
known as beets, and are also a tasty and nutritious vegetable.

2) Join together salt marsh plants with rice.
These two would go a long way to relieve world hunger.

This has been done, and work is continuing. Many of the vegetables in
the Middle East, particularly, are grown from salt resistant strains.
and droght resistent as well.

Then for disease:
3) Develop a virus that attacks cancer cells.

This is probably not necessary or desirable, but viruses are showing
great promise for gene therapy for diseases like cystic fibrosis.

Actually, this is being done (the first experiments were done in
1988). There are several published clinical trials that utilize
various viruses including adenovirus and herpesvirus for this purpose.
There are quite a few people walking around today who have had their
lives extened by such viruses. There have also been some deaths, but
remember that only terminally ill pateints who did not respond to
othet therapies are enrolled in the trials.


4) Develop other viruses that attack infectous bacteria.

Bacteria would quickly develop resistant strains to any virus that wasn't
100% lethal.

This is also happening right now. The viruses employed are
genetically engineered bacteriophage. There has been some moderate
success in experimental systems. This is actually an old idea that
has seen a resergence. We really do need new treatments as there have
not been any new antibiotics in over 20 years. The bugs are winning.

No, I'm not some kind of Pollyanna, I'm usually very cynical.And some
of these ideas may be naive, I am not a biologist. But I wanted to
offer people something nice to think about for Christmas. Have a merry
one, and feel free to add to the list.

"Bob Adkins" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:57:30 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

Isn't this known as the beet? Beet greens are known as chard, and it is
quite a tasty and nutritious vegetable. Beet bottoms are, of course,
known as beets, and are also a tasty and nutritious vegetable.

Wouldn't it be cool if beets had *real blood? :-)

Then for disease:
3) Develop a virus that attacks cancer cells.

This is probably not necessary or desirable, but viruses are showing
great promise for gene therapy for diseases like cystic fibrosis.


Good memory Larry!

Wonder what ever happened to the child that was given gene therapy for CF
several months back? I suppose if it had been 100% successful, it would
have
made big headlines by now.

I don't think it has been evaluated yet. I watch real close I have a nephew
with CF.

Gordon

"Rick" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:57:30 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Instead of screwing the world's poor with nightmares like the
"Terminator Gene,"

The terminator gene is not being deployed. This decision was made two
years ago. You are a bit out of date.

wouldn't it be great if the biotech firms could
come up with things like:
1) Splice together the bottom of a carrot and the top of a
cabbage.

Isn't this known as the beet? Beet greens are known as chard, and it is
quite a tasty and nutritious vegetable. Beet bottoms are, of course,
known as beets, and are also a tasty and nutritious vegetable.

2) Join together salt marsh plants with rice.
These two would go a long way to relieve world hunger.

This has been done, and work is continuing. Many of the vegetables in
the Middle East, particularly, are grown from salt resistant strains.
and droght resistent as well.

Then for disease:
3) Develop a virus that attacks cancer cells.

This is probably not necessary or desirable, but viruses are showing
great promise for gene therapy for diseases like cystic fibrosis.

Actually, this is being done (the first experiments were done in
1988). There are several published clinical trials that utilize
various viruses including adenovirus and herpesvirus for this purpose.
There are quite a few people walking around today who have had their
lives extened by such viruses. There have also been some deaths, but
remember that only terminally ill pateints who did not respond to
othet therapies are enrolled in the trials.

There have been some real successes but the repeatbilty is not very good.
One trial about a dozen advanced melenoma victems were given an expermenatal
vaccine and half lived over 18 months when they should have died in 6
months. One company Large Scale Bio LRGE is betting the farm on
indivugualized treatments. Their stock has steady decline from $40 to $0.88
as their money runs out with no real winner in hand. There will be some real
winners in this field but picking them is a real crap shoot with a lot more
loosers than winners.


4) Develop other viruses that attack infectous bacteria.

Bacteria would quickly develop resistant strains to any virus that wasn't
100% lethal.

This is also happening right now. The viruses employed are
genetically engineered bacteriophage. There has been some moderate
success in experimental systems. This is actually an old idea that
has seen a resergence. We really do need new treatments as there have
not been any new antibiotics in over 20 years. The bugs are winning.

Again some promising things on the horison but the the lead time on medical
reserch is really bad and the testing is difficult to do as well. If we
could develop drugs like we breed plants we could make a lot faster
progress. But the last guy that did that had to hide in South America from
the War Crimes Trials.

Gordon

"Gordon Couger"
Again some promising things on the horison but the the lead time on medical
reserch is really bad and the testing is difficult to do as well. If we
could develop drugs like we breed plants we could make a lot faster
progress.

It is sort of happening in the developing of transgenic plants to produce
protein drugs Read all about it at the http://www.MolecularFarming.com site
Large Scale Bio. is a big player in this field, having been the first
company to build a purpose-built bioprocessing facility.
Prodigene, if they get their act together in environmental safety, have
promising technology and product pipeline.