Here is a science topic, related to general health, humane treatment
of commercial animals for processing, beef as an enviromental
improver...

I am in the process of developing new low cholesterol beef. So far we
have tests showing a reduction from 77mg/100gms cholesterol to
30mg/100gms cholesterol. This in our first F-1 commercial cross
utilizing a Highland-Angus cross.
( testing by AURI, Minn. University, Marshal).
We have progressed to a three-way cross which we have labled " Diarmid
cattle." We have produced 13 color types from this breeding and a net
lowering of cholesterol to under 23.4mg/100gms.( multiple sources).

I hope someone finds this information interesting?

The next topic I would like to discuse is the use of " touch", as a
behavior modification tool in the commerical beef industry. I can tame
bulls to a level I'm sure is not common in the real world! It is not a
fluke, as the method has been used on four different breeds so
far.University studies are now working on this issue, I believe I am
the first to put it to use?

For fun you may view bull surfing on www.electricscotland.com

Researchers or any interested party may visit our farm for free to see
the effects on a whole cattle herd, we have somewhere from 60-100
animals on the farm .

I am not able to quote sources for next information?

Conservation grazing tests in Europe show a ten fold increase of flora
and fauna when Highland cattle are used.

American Bison, when fed commercial grains like cattle see an
increase in cholesterol from 50mg/100gms to over 82mg/100gms! The
single most important thing cattle producers can do to improve the
health aspect of beef is feed it grasses as its main source of food.
Containment feeding of cattle, which has really been a recient
experiment since WWI, has been a failure, mainly for two reasons,
water issues and health issues.Sustainability trends will see a return
to grassfed beef. Water is the main issue!

The basic premiss is cattle convert solar energy to a useable food
source. As such food chain consentrations of toxins and mutual
evolution of man and beast, seem to indicate from my work, that an
ancient beef breed when grazed produces the safest meat source in the
world. The breed has great potential for general health issues and for
the environment. I am concerned with feeding 12 billion human beings!
Since 99% of all mutations are terminal I believe the use of
genetically modified plants... will have a long term negitive effect,
both on human health and on the survival of other species plant and
animal.

In the next few years issues of water will be more important then
issues of energy or oil? One has to wonder where governmental
leadership is... concidering the fastest growing regions are in arrid
regions with water accesss issues. Naturally someone is attempting to
own water rights!

American Bison, when fed commercial grains like cattle see an
increase in cholesterol from 50mg/100gms to over 82mg/100gms! The
single most important thing cattle producers can do to improve the
health aspect of beef is feed it grasses as its main source of food.
Containment feeding of cattle, which has really been a recient
experiment since WWI, has been a failure, mainly for two reasons,
water issues and health issues.Sustainability trends will see a return
to grassfed beef. Water is the main issue!

Consumers want three things related to thier food. They want it
produced cheaply, abundantly, and of the highest quality. The problem
is that it is hard to produce abundant, high quality, CHEEP food. And
because of this economics is the main driving factor when producing
food. Grass fed feeder cattle may be lower in cholesterol and of a
unique taste, but economics reflect that the beef can and is produced
cheeper, easier, and of a more consistant quality than pature fattened
beef. Cattleman are paid for the marbling in the meat of the animal.
High rations of grain fed to the animals give us the tnderness and
taste consumers demand.

Ian wrote in message
om...
Consumers want three things related to thier food. They want it
produced cheaply, abundantly, and of the highest quality. The problem
is that it is hard to produce abundant, high quality, CHEEP food. And
because of this economics is the main driving factor when producing
food. Grass fed feeder cattle may be lower in cholesterol and of a
unique taste, but economics reflect that the beef can and is produced
cheeper, easier, and of a more consistant quality than pature fattened
beef. Cattleman are paid for the marbling in the meat of the animal.
High rations of grain fed to the animals give us the tnderness and
taste consumers demand.

It is interesting that food panel tests conducted on lamb show that in
the NZ grass fed lamb is prefered for flavour, In Spain grain fed is
preferred, while in the UK a lamb that has had some grain but still
basically grass fed is considered best.
The cattle I sell for finishing by specialist finishers here in the UK
are different breeds (mainly continental) to those which I keep for home
consumption and for selling direct to people for putting in their
freezers. Here I use the old dairy breeds which I grass finish.
(Something possible when you have five feet of rain spread relatively
evenly throughout the year)


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...

Taste preferences are learned behavior. My son married a Chinese girl.
She
cooks some dishes that I find a little to hot but nothing that we
can't eat.
They vacationed in Thailand this year and my son ate something off her
plate
and then drank a half liter of water trying to put out the fire. She
was
eating it like we eat bread.

I like canned green bean better than fresh because I learned to eat
them
that way. There are very few things I won't eat unless it is too hot
or spic
y that I can't stand it but grass fat beef is definitely not my
favorite.
And I have eaten enough calves with broken legs and such to know. And
yes
they were big enough and fat enough. But the kind of steak I like
doesn't
sell in super markets. Even in the late 60's they did a study here in
Stillwater miss marking and miss pricing meat and customers picked the
lean
cuts no matter the price or the name. To me that stuff is hardly fit
to eat.

"feed lot" costs are higher over here than in the US, every time I
compare prices. This year might be the first exception and a lot of
friesian bull calves are heading east to the grain areas when they are
being raised on cheap feed wheat and anything else that comes to hand.
It will be manufacturing beef, they are budgeting on 70p per kilo
(liveweight) which is about $50 per 100lb liveweight.



Australia and Argentina are places that have lower fixed costs.
Looking at
he cattle prices and the grain prices they can't afford to feed grain
to
cattle.


Australian and Argentinian beef always sold well in UK.

One day you will have to come over here to just stand and watch grass
grow :-))
You saw Oz's figures for rainfall, well he is dry compared to me, we can
nearly double them.

--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


--
Gordon

Gordon Couger
Stillwater, OK
www.couger.com/gcouger

Jim Webster writes

One day you will have to come over here to just stand and watch grass
grow :-))

My bro in law comes from australia, and not a particularly arid bit.

He just can't stand the constant bright water-wasting green of the UK.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...
I could only find 3 Holstisine steers sold this week listed as such
but most
steers that size would not go through the sale they would be marked
direct
to a feed lot or they could be culled out of bunch headed for the lot
for
some reason for for some reason.

Holsteins: Large 3 720 lbs 60.00; 760 lbs plain 56.00; 940 lbs 59.25.

Holstiens would sell on the low end of #3's.

Here is the weekly summery for Oklahoma city. It seems no matter what
happens to fat prices the price of light calves stays up. I guess that
someone is always optimistic.

Gordon


thanks for the figures, I'll follow them up.

Just spent this evening in a high quality butchers shop chatting to the
guy, we are talking serious meat. He is into all sorts of things to
attact attention, one for christmas is three birds in one. You get your
turkey, stuffed with breasts of duck, pheasant and guinea fowl plus a
forcemeat.
Walk into his prepared meats cold room and the smell just makes you feel
so hungry


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...
I could only find 3 Holstisine steers sold this week listed as such
but most
steers that size would not go through the sale they would be marked
direct
to a feed lot or they could be culled out of bunch headed for the lot
for
some reason for for some reason.

Holsteins: Large 3 720 lbs 60.00; 760 lbs plain 56.00; 940 lbs 59.25.

Holstiens would sell on the low end of #3's.

Here is the weekly summery for Oklahoma city. It seems no matter what
happens to fat prices the price of light calves stays up. I guess that
someone is always optimistic.

Gordon


thanks for the figures, I'll follow them up.

Just spent this evening in a high quality butchers shop chatting to the
guy, we are talking serious meat. He is into all sorts of things to
attact attention, one for christmas is three birds in one. You get your
turkey, stuffed with breasts of duck, pheasant and guinea fowl plus a
forcemeat.
Walk into his prepared meats cold room and the smell just makes you feel
so hungry

I sure wish I could find someplace like that. The meat here is getting more
and more uniformly unfit to eat. This economic downturn Albertson's replaced
their Certified Angus Beef with a much cheaper product and try to get the
same price. CAB is not the best beef I ever ate but it close. They do
unbelievably well for something that died that young and lean. But that's
back to taste.

I talked with my friend form outside London and he says you can find
anything on earth there. It must be nice living were you have a history that
you don't know people that made it

Gordon



This fall I bought my Beef half from the THIRTEEN MILE LAMB & WOOL COMPANY =
Best Tasting Grass Fed Beef I ever Tasted!

http://www.lambandwool.com/beef.html

MONTANA GRASS FED BEEF


Young, tender and grass-fed: the basic elements of Thirteen Mile beef are same
as for our lamb. Why beef at Thirteen Mile Lamb & Wool Company? We started our
small herd of cattle in 2001 for several reasons. Our customers asked for beef
along with their lamb; multi-species grazing helps us with grass and parasite
management; and we like raising calves.

For more information on grass-fed meat, see our Questions section and a website
called eatwild.com (see links page). Here is the essential information on
Thirteen Mile Beef:


The cows came onto our ranch under our organic management in the summer of
2001. We fed them some purchased hay last winter (our own hay supplies were
limited by drought), but they are grazing organic pasture this spring and
summer.

The calves, like the lambs, grow up on milk and grass. No antibiotics,
hormones, chemical pesticides, animal byproducts, or GMOs in their diet or
their mothers' diet. We anticipate organic certification of our beef this Fall.


We bought our cows from our former sheep shearer and his wife, when they
realized they could no longer support their 'family' of cattle on their
drought-stricken land in central Montana. We adopted this gentle clan of bovine
beasts with the understanding that quiet handling and easygoing genetics are
good not only for cattle and rancher sanity, but are also reliable indicators
of meat tenderness.

There are two options for beef purchases: (1) Standard Beef --18 to 24
month-old steers, wintered over one season on hay and finished on our organic
pasture to a live weight of about 1000 lbs., or (2) Thirteen Mile Young Beef
--February-born calves, butchered in the Fall of the same year after a summer
with milk and pasture at a live weight of 600 - 700 lbs. Option (1) is closer
to the standard age of commercial beef, but our steers have never been kept in
a feedlot and have never been fed grain. Option (2) allows us to supply
especially tender and mild beef with the maximum benefits of pasture. This red
meat is not veal; the calves are free-range pasture animals raised with their
mothers and sunshine. The beneficial conjugated linoleic acids (CLAs) are
highest in the meat when the animals are eating green pasture, and selling our
calves as Young Beef allows us to avoid selling any feeder cattle into the
mega-feedlot/grain infrastructure. The modern feedlot regime is dubious for the
health of animals, humans and the planet; with the help of our customers, we
bypass that system.

The beef is processed at a USDA-inspected and OCIA certified organic plant in
Great Falls, Montana and shipped by air via Federal Express, or delivered
locally if possible.
Mickey's Packing Plant uses modern cryovac packaging equipment with heavy-duty
plastic wrap
You can purchase a half, quarter, or sample box of beef (25 pounds).
If you're looking for more variety in a gift-pack--or you just want to check
things out for yourself, try a Thirteen Mile Sampler package--- a selection of
beef, lamb and a hat made from our wool.
Supplies are limited, so PLEASE ORDER EARLY!

We are now taking orders for Young Beef and Standard Beef.

BEEF PRICES:

Prices below are for cut and cryovaced (vacuum wrapped and sealed), frozen beef
in the sampler packages. For larger quantities of meat (quarters and halves of
beef), we recommend the double-paper wrap to withstand the longer term storage
and shifting around in a family freezer.



Half Standard Beef (~215 lbs of meat) $3.40/pound
Quarter Standard Beef (~107 lbs of meat - 30 lbs. steaks, 20 lbs. roasts, 50
lbs. burger, 7 lbs. stew meat, short ribs, and soup bones) $3.60/pound
Half Young Beef (~146lbs of meat) $3.90/pound
Quarter Young Beef (~73 lbs of meat - 19 lbs. steaks, 21 lbs. roasts, 26 lbs.
burger, 7 lbs. short ribs and soup bones) $4.10/pound
Young Beef Sampler (25 lbs. of meat including roasts, steaks, and burger)
$4.20/pound
Thirteen Mile Sampler (25 lbs of Young Beef & lamb & a wool hat) $4.90/pound



Shipping costs are added to the prices listed above. Shipping rates vary
greatly depending on the size and destination of FedEx packages, so we will
determine shipping costs at the time of your order. In general , per pound
shipping cost is greater for small packages.

------------------

Picking it up would be cheaper of course!

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...

Just spent this evening in a high quality butchers shop chatting to
the
guy, we are talking serious meat. He is into all sorts of things to
attact attention, one for christmas is three birds in one. You get
your
turkey, stuffed with breasts of duck, pheasant and guinea fowl plus
a
forcemeat.
Walk into his prepared meats cold room and the smell just makes you
feel
so hungry

I sure wish I could find someplace like that. The meat here is getting
more
and more uniformly unfit to eat.

Oh you can always buy poor meat in a British supermarket

This economic downturn Albertson's replaced
their Certified Angus Beef with a much cheaper product and try to get
the
same price. CAB is not the best beef I ever ate but it close. They do
unbelievably well for something that died that young and lean. But
that's
back to taste.

the guy I was talking to had always taken so many Orkney bullocks every
month. Orkney beef will not let a carcass of the island until it has
hung ten days, to guarantee a minimum standard. Since fmd he has
switched to local beef and has managed to keep the quality up.

I talked with my friend form outside London and he says you can find
anything on earth there. It must be nice living were you have a
history that
you don't know people that made it


I suppose your friend is right. I always remember an American friend of
mine who was driving round the UK touring and seeing the sights. He send
me his hotel bookings, I send him a route and suggest stop offs. What
Americans have trouble grasping is the sheer amount of country we pack
into every mile. We don't have the roads where you can drive for miles
and see nothing but the same field.

--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'



Gordon

Aozotorp wrote in message
...
This fall I bought my Beef half from the THIRTEEN MILE LAMB & WOOL
COMPANY =
Best Tasting Grass Fed Beef I ever Tasted!

http://www.lambandwool.com/beef.html

MONTANA GRASS FED BEEF

fascinating, pricing was interesting as well, I'm too cheap.


Picking it up would be cheaper of course!

One of those places I'd love to have a look round


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...



I suppose your friend is right. I always remember an American friend
of
mine who was driving round the UK touring and seeing the sights. He
send
me his hotel bookings, I send him a route and suggest stop offs.
What
Americans have trouble grasping is the sheer amount of country we
pack
into every mile. We don't have the roads where you can drive for
miles
and see nothing but the same field.

How would you like to plow Waggoner's big feild with a two bottom
plow. It
is 4,000 US acers. The first round took all day for a half dozen
tractors.
--
Gordon

remember in 4000 acres we would fit two villages as well :-))


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'



Gordon Couger
Stillwater, OK
www.couger.com/gcouger

Gordon Couger writes

Acorn fat hogs are a real mess. The fat is not firm enough.

But if you want really superb air-cured ham then the spanish acorn-fed
version is quite exceptional. Better than parma.

Mind you, still not as good as stubbsy's.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...
I was interested to see that grazing wheat doesn't help flavour.
Anyone
know why there is that much difference between wheat and oats?

If you think wheat is bad try rye. It is also in the taste of the
milk.

we have grazed rye. It is used in the UK as an early grazing crop to get
milk cows out a fortnight to three weeks early. I've never heard any of
the dairy companies complaining about any adverse effects. I know there
are German dairy farmers under contract to use hay and not silage
because of fears that that might taint the milk.


In milk it make a difference in the evening milking when they have
been
eating wheat pasture and the morning milking after they have been fed
alfalfa hay and grain. So my guess would be the fatty acids. They are
about
the only thing that could move around that fast.

I know that in pork the fatty acids the pig eats make can have a lot
to do
with the fat. Acorn fat hogs are a real mess. The fat is not firm
enough.
Cattle can do more processing of fatty acids in the rumen but a lot go
through as is when feeding lush wheat pasture.

there was work done on swill fed pigs who were getting a lot of
margarine and similar vegetable cooking oils and they were laying down a
very sloppy back fat. (which raises questions as to what people who eat
these products lay down)


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'





Gordon