This thread is just for Jeffrey. Thanks for reminding me that it is
PERFECTLY FINE to like what we like and dislike what we dislike JUST
BECAUSE.

PEACE. I have heard all the debates about different strains etc., and
I am not sure what I think. I just know I hate this rose. BIG FAT ugly
yellow blooms with horrible quilled petals that want to ball. I had an
uncomfortable impulse early on that I later identified as the urge to
harvest the buds and boil them and butter them like brussels sprouts.
This is thee rose that taught me that the only thing worse than an
ugly rose is a PROLIFIC, VIGOROUS ugly rose.

MOONSTONE. Also a great big huge fat sauteeable lump of a rose. So NOT
fragrant it seems to suck all the fragrance out of YOU when you get
near it. Sterile, perfect form, with sterile, perfectly uniform, thin
pink petal edges. I pay homage to the Canker Gods for saving me the
trouble of hacking this rose to death when it was big and strong.

AMELIA EARHART. Like Peace on steroids. Even MORE petals. Hated it at
first sight. A rose CAN have too many petals. If she has a grave, the
famous pilot rolled over in it when this mistake came out.

PENELOPE. Jesus, Alice, what were you thinking? If I want a GD azalea,
I'll plant one. In fact I have scores of them already, the gift of an
overzealous former property owner. Insiginficant little POS
not-quite-pink blooms that prove there IS a color worse than pink. It
is Aspire-to-but-just-cannot-achieve Pink. It lives on, but in
justified fear for its spindley, puny life.

Yes, Jeffrey, it IS okay to hate a rose.

Shiva wrote:
This is thee rose that taught me that the only thing worse than an
ugly rose is a PROLIFIC, VIGOROUS ugly rose.

.... with no scent.

--
Henry

(Shiva) wrote in
s.com:

PENELOPE. Jesus, Alice, what were you thinking? If I want a GD azalea,
I'll plant one. In fact I have scores of them already, the gift of an
overzealous former property owner. Insiginficant little POS
not-quite-pink blooms that prove there IS a color worse than pink. It
is Aspire-to-but-just-cannot-achieve Pink. It lives on, but in
justified fear for its spindley, puny life.

How different personal appreciations can be!

I love Penelope. Mine just began to bloom in its first full season and
though it's smaller than just about everything else I have (it's young
yet), it's a stunner. With delicate semidouble petals that remind me of
porcelain, this rose seems to me more like a sasanqua camellia than an
azalea; there's something Far-Eastern and exotic about it to my
eyes...and it has an enchanting scent. I took these photos last week:

http://sakionline.net/penelope.htm

I tend to be intrigued by subtleties in roses rather than the screeching
look-at-me styles of many modern floribundas and hybrid teas, so you can
understand my affection for Penelope's opalescent blush. Clearly though
it's not everyone's cup of tea, though if you're an Oolong fancier it
might be more your style.

Yes, Jeffrey, it IS okay to hate a rose.

I'm still wrestling with this concept. I haven't found a rose that I feel
inclined to hate, though some I won't grow for whatever reason (too big,
too leggy, too mildewy, too yellow, etc.).

Some seem to hate *me*. I have a couple Jeanne LaJoie that simply won't
bloom. I had them in pots originally; switched them to the ground; just
dug them up and potted them back up in my convalescent area. I think I've
had them about eight years or so. Somehow I can't get rid of them. I
think there's a Good Rose somewhere inside those canes begging to get out
and I feel obligated to let it try.

----

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:58:06 +0000 (UTC), saki wrote
this about Penelope:

(Shiva) wrote in
ws.com:

PENELOPE. Jesus, Alice, what were you thinking? If I want a GD azalea,
I'll plant one.

How different personal appreciations can be!

Truly!

I love Penelope. Mine just began to bloom in its first full season and
though it's smaller than just about everything else I have (it's young
yet), it's a stunner. With delicate semidouble petals that remind me of
porcelain, this rose seems to me more like a sasanqua camellia than an
azalea; there's something Far-Eastern and exotic about it to my
eyes...and it has an enchanting scent. I took these photos last week:


http://sakionline.net/penelope.htm

Really lovely--and a great reminder of why I wanted this rose. Mine
looks like this if you slow down and look closely--and I rarely do.
However, your photo made me go look a minute ago.



I tend to be intrigued by subtleties in roses rather than the screeching
look-at-me styles of many modern floribundas and hybrid teas


This is precisely the difference in our taste in roses--at least at
this point in my life. I LOVE to be knocked over by vivid, lucious,
big and beautiful blooms! Preferably in oranges, purples, and reds! I
like it when they take my breath away!


, so you can
understand my affection for Penelope's opalescent blush. Clearly though
it's not everyone's cup of tea, though if you're an Oolong fancier it
might be more your style.


You are really a beautiful writer--hope you do it elsewhere, too. Too
good to waste on Usenet! Though I appreciate reading it here in rgr.



Yes, Jeffrey, it IS okay to hate a rose.

I'm still wrestling with this concept. I haven't found a rose that I feel
inclined to hate, though some I won't grow for whatever reason (too big,
too leggy, too mildewy, too yellow, etc.).

A gentle soul! Another aspect I admire but do not share, to state the
obvious!


Some seem to hate *me*. I have a couple Jeanne LaJoie that simply won't
bloom. I had them in pots originally; switched them to the ground; just
dug them up and potted them back up in my convalescent area. I think I've
had them about eight years or so. Somehow I can't get rid of them. I
think there's a Good Rose somewhere inside those canes begging to get out
and I feel obligated to let it try.

----


I think it's fun to share and comtemplate our differences. They don't
have to square us off in opposition or conflict.

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 22:37:36 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:58:06 +0000 (UTC), saki wrote
this about Penelope:

(Shiva) wrote in
ews.com:

PENELOPE. Jesus, Alice, what were you thinking? If I want a GD azalea,
I'll plant one.

How different personal appreciations can be!

Truly!

I love Penelope. Mine just began to bloom in its first full season and
though it's smaller than just about everything else I have (it's young
yet), it's a stunner. With delicate semidouble petals that remind me of
porcelain, this rose seems to me more like a sasanqua camellia than an
azalea; there's something Far-Eastern and exotic about it to my
eyes...and it has an enchanting scent. I took these photos last week:


http://sakionline.net/penelope.htm

Really lovely--and a great reminder of why I wanted this rose. Mine
looks like this if you slow down and look closely--and I rarely do.
However, your photo made me go look a minute ago.



I tend to be intrigued by subtleties in roses rather than the screeching
look-at-me styles of many modern floribundas and hybrid teas


This is precisely the difference in our taste in roses--at least at
this point in my life. I LOVE to be knocked over by vivid, lucious,
big and beautiful blooms! Preferably in oranges, purples, and reds! I
like it when they take my breath away!

You mean like this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP1.jpg

Or this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP2.jpg

Or maybe you want to see them at the same time on the same plant:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP3.jpg

And finally, here's another interestingly ugly/beautiful ruffle on the
plant next door:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP4.jpg

This is precisely the difference in our taste in roses--at least at
this point in my life. I LOVE to be knocked over by vivid, lucious,
big and beautiful blooms! Preferably in oranges, purples, and reds! I
like it when they take my breath away!

You mean like this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP1.jpg

Or this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP2.jpg

Or maybe you want to see them at the same time on the same plant:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP3.jpg

And finally, here's another interestingly ugly/beautiful ruffle on the
plant next door:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP4.jpg

Correction - the last one is on the same plant...

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:21:13 -0500, dave weil
wrote:


This is precisely the difference in our taste in roses--at least at
this point in my life. I LOVE to be knocked over by vivid, lucious,
big and beautiful blooms! Preferably in oranges, purples, and reds! I
like it when they take my breath away!

You mean like this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP1.jpg

Or this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP2.jpg

Or maybe you want to see them at the same time on the same plant:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP3.jpg

And finally, here's another interestingly ugly/beautiful ruffle on the
plant next door:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP4.jpg

Correction - the last one is on the same plant...

And apparently, my transfer of this file didn't work the first time.
It's up there now...

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:54:30 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



You mean like this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP1.jpg

Precisely! ;0)

Or this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP2.jpg

Yep!

I read your Ugly Don Juan post and cannot find it now. You're right,
they get quite raggedy--and BROWN here!

On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:00:33 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:54:30 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



You mean like this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP1.jpg

Precisely! ;0)

Or this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP2.jpg

Yep!

I read your Ugly Don Juan post and cannot find it now. You're right,
they get quite raggedy--and BROWN here!

Here's the pic again:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/UglyDonJuan.jpg

To be fair, this is simply rain damage...

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:00:33 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:54:30 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



You mean like this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP1.jpg

Precisely! ;0)

Or this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP2.jpg

Yep!

I read your Ugly Don Juan post and cannot find it now. You're right,
they get quite raggedy--and BROWN here!

Here's the pic again:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/UglyDonJuan.jpg

To be fair, this is simply rain damage...

Ah! Dave you should see what the rain & Bot
has done to the blooms on my Aloha.
Brrrr...

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:50:30 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:00:33 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:54:30 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



You mean like this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP1.jpg

Precisely! ;0)

Or this one?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DP2.jpg

Yep!

I read your Ugly Don Juan post and cannot find it now. You're right,
they get quite raggedy--and BROWN here!

Here's the pic again:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/UglyDonJuan.jpg

To be fair, this is simply rain damage...

Ah! Dave you should see what the rain & Bot
has done to the blooms on my Aloha.

Been there when it comes to rain and Aloha. Because of the very
complex and dense nature of the Aloha bud, it's very susceptable to
severe balling. In fact, I have a few scattered "brussel sprouts" at
the moment. The difference between those blooms and this Don Juan is
that the Don Juan actually opened. Once Aloha balls, I've never known
it to ever really open much.

In article m, Shiva
writes
This thread is just for Jeffrey. Thanks for reminding me that it is
PERFECTLY FINE to like what we like and dislike what we dislike JUST
BECAUSE.

PEACE. I have heard all the debates about different strains etc., and
I am not sure what I think. I just know I hate this rose. BIG FAT ugly
yellow blooms with horrible quilled petals that want to ball. I had an
uncomfortable impulse early on that I later identified as the urge to
harvest the buds and boil them and butter them like brussels sprouts.
This is thee rose that taught me that the only thing worse than an
ugly rose is a PROLIFIC, VIGOROUS ugly rose.

Not only hideous, but, as you say, obese. I also hate Super Star, the
ubiquitous Compassion, and the dreadful Grandpa Dickson - what a shape!
My pet hate just now is the ghastly rhapsody in Blue, top rose in the UK
- and hideous, and not blue but a kind of stark purple. I can never
understand the quest for a blue rose.

However, I can't agree about Penelope - she seems divine to me,
delicate, dainty, fragile, like eighteenth-century porcelain. She
doesn't suggest azaleas to me either, but old ramblers like Rambling
Rector (mine is juuuust out now - what a sight and what a scent).
--
Jane Lumley

dave weil wrote:

Here's the pic again:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/UglyDonJuan.jpg

To be fair, this is simply rain damage...

Ah! Dave you should see what the rain & Bot
has done to the blooms on my Aloha.

Been there when it comes to rain and Aloha. Because of the very
complex and dense nature of the Aloha bud, it's very susceptable to
severe balling. In fact, I have a few scattered "brussel sprouts" at
the moment. The difference between those blooms and this Don Juan is
that the Don Juan actually opened. Once Aloha balls, I've never known
it to ever really open much.

Here's another "good" example of how bad the wet (calling this spring
damp is like calling Bill Gates well off) and bot can make a rose look
(the first two pictures on the page - click for larger view). This is
Johann Strauss.

http://www.dotrose.com/whatsinbloom/20030606.php

--
Henry

Yes, Jeffrey, it IS okay to hate a rose.

Well, this is where my amature status comes to the forefront. I can
honestly say that there is not a single rose that I do not like. Yes I have
my favorites. And yes, some have been named in this thread. But the fact
is, that to me, each one has something different to offer.
I am a sucker for bi-colors and tri-colors. Yet a Mister Lincoln or
Gold Marie can still take my breath away. I love the old fasioned smelling
varities as well, but even the soft or lightly smelling varieties can be
just as nice when grouped.
And I watch my plants suffer from black spot, balling, aphids, and
powdery mildew and do my best to control them. Proliferation? My miniture
Candy tuff is going through the same right now. But they are still there
and still blooming.
Like I said, to me, there is no ugly rose, some are just prettier nd
better smelling than others.

Shiva wrote:
This thread is just for Jeffrey. Thanks for reminding me that it is
PERFECTLY FINE to like what we like and dislike what we dislike JUST
BECAUSE.

PEACE. I have heard all the debates about different strains etc., and
I am not sure what I think. I just know I hate this rose. BIG FAT ugly
yellow blooms with horrible quilled petals that want to ball. I had an
uncomfortable impulse early on that I later identified as the urge to
harvest the buds and boil them and butter them like brussels sprouts.
This is thee rose that taught me that the only thing worse than an
ugly rose is a PROLIFIC, VIGOROUS ugly rose.

MOONSTONE. Also a great big huge fat sauteeable lump of a rose. So NOT
fragrant it seems to suck all the fragrance out of YOU when you get
near it. Sterile, perfect form, with sterile, perfectly uniform, thin
pink petal edges. I pay homage to the Canker Gods for saving me the
trouble of hacking this rose to death when it was big and strong.

AMELIA EARHART. Like Peace on steroids. Even MORE petals. Hated it at
first sight. A rose CAN have too many petals. If she has a grave, the
famous pilot rolled over in it when this mistake came out.

PENELOPE. Jesus, Alice, what were you thinking? If I want a GD azalea,
I'll plant one. In fact I have scores of them already, the gift of an
overzealous former property owner. Insiginficant little POS
not-quite-pink blooms that prove there IS a color worse than pink. It
is Aspire-to-but-just-cannot-achieve Pink. It lives on, but in
justified fear for its spindley, puny life.

Yes, Jeffrey, it IS okay to hate a rose.

HA, HA, HA! Nice Post, Shiva.