ok, I have been adding a few more fish to my pond this year.
I am 'trying' black moors & orandas etc. plus a few small koi .

most of them had just vanished.
I 'did' find a dead fish on the bottom of my pond. by sheer luck, as the
light was in the riight spot.

questions: I thought dead fish floated? (most of my other dead ones did),,
so much easier to find. I figure they just died........ somewhere......
I 'did' see a cat by the pond the other day. but I cannot figure out HOW it
would get any of the fish, unless it jumped in....... unless it fished out
the dead ones floating by the side?
I have plenty of fish, & no one is spastic, as if a heron or raccoon showed
up. pretty much all of my last years fish I can account for, its just the
newer ones this year.
the small koi (about 3-4 inches) swim pretty darn fast.... cannot see how
anything could catch them!

now, I do NOT have ginclear water, although if the angle is right I can see
to the bottom, but cannot make out anything in the center of the pond where
it is deeper. so they could be dead there......... I cannot imagine they do
not come out to play with the other fishes,, when the mob is eating,
practically everyone is there! (do SOME fish just hide & never come out?)

I do have another question,, maybe the spawning is getting to them??? even
though the goldfish ARE small the bigger fish are including them in all the
chasing around the pond, when I found a smaller oranda dead I figure he MUST
have just gotten exhausted from the chasing! If that is what is happening,,
where the heck are the corpses?
there are plenty of plant pots for them to 'hide' in, but seems like the
spawners just run railroad over everything!
(btw,,,,,,,,,, other question,, both koi & goldfishes are involved all at
once,,,,,,, is this normal? chasing each others species?)

what ticks me off the most is I bought a 5" black moor for $24. & its
gone...... *pout* ( just dang it,,,,,,,,, if I could find it dead at least
I could take it back for refund at LFS)

but the smaller koi are what has me scratching my head,, too swift to be
caught & they arent caught on the filter intake.
where do they go????
I WISH I took pictures of them when I bought them, than I could be sure of
what I have!

I think a fish has the knack to hide in gin clear water in a clear
gallon jug sometimes. I have gone days already and never see signs of
my fish in the enclosure but eventually I see them all but where they
went is beyond me........unless they are jumping ofver the enclosure
netting and going for a vacation in the big pond and them jump back
inthe enclosur were things are much better and food is much more
plentifull ;-)

Black moors and Orandas are pretty easy game in a pond, as compared to
comets and koi. Cats are more than capable of catching them as well.

A lot depends on the temperature of the water as to weather a fish may
float or not, as the cooler the water is the longer it takes to
decompose a little and create gasses internallay to cause it to float
to the top. A lot of times during the time a fish may lay on the
botto9m others may start to pick at it so you may not ever find any
signs of a dead fish. They often get wedged under a plant or pot, and
then get mulm over them which also makes it harder to see.

IMHO, a heron is gonna get the upper hand everytime when it comes to
catching a fish no matter how smart or fast that fish is. Herons are
persistent, and sneaky, and usually win the game over time.

Usually from what I found out, fish if they are not spooked usually
are not seen off by themselves or constantly in self imposed solitary
somewhere, unless they are sick or scared.


On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:56:51 -0400, "*muffin*"
wrote:

===ok, I have been adding a few more fish to my pond this year.
===I am 'trying' black moors & orandas etc. plus a few small koi .
===
===most of them had just vanished.
===I 'did' find a dead fish on the bottom of my pond. by sheer luck, as the
===light was in the riight spot.
===
===questions: I thought dead fish floated? (most of my other dead ones did),,
===so much easier to find. I figure they just died........ somewhere......
===I 'did' see a cat by the pond the other day. but I cannot figure out HOW it
===would get any of the fish, unless it jumped in....... unless it fished out
===the dead ones floating by the side?
=== I have plenty of fish, & no one is spastic, as if a heron or raccoon showed
===up. pretty much all of my last years fish I can account for, its just the
===newer ones this year.
=== the small koi (about 3-4 inches) swim pretty darn fast.... cannot see how
===anything could catch them!
===
===now, I do NOT have ginclear water, although if the angle is right I can see
===to the bottom, but cannot make out anything in the center of the pond where
===it is deeper. so they could be dead there......... I cannot imagine they do
===not come out to play with the other fishes,, when the mob is eating,
===practically everyone is there! (do SOME fish just hide & never come out?)
===
===I do have another question,, maybe the spawning is getting to them??? even
===though the goldfish ARE small the bigger fish are including them in all the
===chasing around the pond, when I found a smaller oranda dead I figure he MUST
===have just gotten exhausted from the chasing! If that is what is happening,,
===where the heck are the corpses?
===there are plenty of plant pots for them to 'hide' in, but seems like the
===spawners just run railroad over everything!
===(btw,,,,,,,,,, other question,, both koi & goldfishes are involved all at
===once,,,,,,, is this normal? chasing each others species?)
===
===what ticks me off the most is I bought a 5" black moor for $24. & its
===gone...... *pout* ( just dang it,,,,,,,,, if I could find it dead at least
===I could take it back for refund at LFS)
===
===but the smaller koi are what has me scratching my head,, too swift to be
===caught & they arent caught on the filter intake.
===where do they go????
=== I WISH I took pictures of them when I bought them, than I could be sure of
===what I have!
===


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
ok, I have been adding a few more fish to my pond this year.
I am 'trying' black moors & orandas etc. plus a few small koi .
most of them had just vanished.

$$ Do you have kingfishers, herons, bullfrogs, snapper turtles or snakes
anywhere around your pond or property?

I 'did' find a dead fish on the bottom of my pond. by sheer luck, as the
light was in the riight spot.
questions: I thought dead fish floated? (most of my other dead ones did),,
so much easier to find. I figure they just died........ somewhere......
I 'did' see a cat by the pond the other day. but I cannot figure out HOW
it
would get any of the fish, unless it jumped in....... unless it fished out
the dead ones floating by the side?

$$ Cats don't usually care to "handle" or eat something dead, unless they
themselves killed it and it's fresh.

I have plenty of fish, & no one is spastic, as if a heron or raccoon
showed
up. pretty much all of my last years fish I can account for, its just the
newer ones this year.
the small koi (about 3-4 inches) swim pretty darn fast.... cannot see
how
anything could catch them!

$$ Have you ever seen how fast a bullfrog or black snake swims?

now, I do NOT have ginclear water, although if the angle is right I can
see
to the bottom, but cannot make out anything in the center of the pond
where
it is deeper. so they could be dead there......... I cannot imagine they
do
not come out to play with the other fishes,, when the mob is eating,
practically everyone is there! (do SOME fish just hide & never come out?)

I do have another question,, maybe the spawning is getting to them??? even
though the goldfish ARE small the bigger fish are including them in all
the
chasing around the pond, when I found a smaller oranda dead I figure he
MUST
have just gotten exhausted from the chasing! If that is what is
happening,,
where the heck are the corpses?

$$ See above....

there are plenty of plant pots for them to 'hide' in, but seems like the
spawners just run railroad over everything!
(btw,,,,,,,,,, other question,, both koi & goldfishes are involved all at
once,,,,,,, is this normal? chasing each others species?)

$$ I've seen it in my ponds.

what ticks me off the most is I bought a 5" black moor for $24. & its
gone...... *pout* ( just dang it,,,,,,,,, if I could find it dead at
least
I could take it back for refund at LFS)

$$ Do you have racoons, kingfishers, herons, cranes, bullfrogs, snapper
turtles or snakes anywhere around your pond or property?

but the smaller koi are what has me scratching my head,, too swift to be
caught & they arent caught on the filter intake.

$$ Have you ever witnessed the SPEED of a water snake or Kingfisher?

where do they go????
I WISH I took pictures of them when I bought them, than I could be sure
of
what I have!

$$ How large is your pond?
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Reel Mckoi" wrote in message
...

"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
ok, I have been adding a few more fish to my pond this year.
I am 'trying' black moors & orandas etc. plus a few small koi .
most of them had just vanished.


$$ How large is your pond?

3800 gallons


$$ Do you have kingfishers,
no

herons,
no

bullfrogs,

yes , but small ones, we have had much larger ones than the ones here now,,
& didn't lose fish before.. these frogs do not look large enough to eat the
size fish that are missing (especially the 5in black moor, as it would be
larger than the frog!)


snapper turtles
no

snakes
the last one I saw was a garter, about the size of a pencil
(never saw a black snake , ever)

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:56:51 -0400, "*muffin*" wrote:

what ticks me off the most is I bought a 5" black moor for $24. & its
gone...... *pout* ( just dang it,,,,,,,,, if I could find it dead at least
I could take it back for refund at LFS)

Should we talk about quarantine procedures? That way if they die, you get
refund or replacement. )

Personally though, they're probably hiding deep due to transport &
tranplant shock, unless your water chemistry, temp, pH, KH was the same as
what they were in, it may take them awhile to come around.

Regarding the moors, what I breed, they can easy be cat caught. At least
mine are always working the edges for natural treats, but I have a motion
sprinkler so no cat is gonna come close to even see there is a fish in my
ponds. ;-) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

"*muffin*" wrote in message
...

"Reel Mckoi" wrote in message
...

"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
ok, I have been adding a few more fish to my pond this year.
I am 'trying' black moors & orandas etc. plus a few small koi .
most of them had just vanished.


$$ How large is your pond?

3800 gallons


$$ Do you have kingfishers,
no

herons,
no

bullfrogs,

yes , but small ones, we have had much larger ones than the ones here
now,,
& didn't lose fish before.. these frogs do not look large enough to eat
the
size fish that are missing (especially the 5in black moor, as it would be
larger than the frog!)


snapper turtles
no

snakes
the last one I saw was a garter, about the size of a pencil
(never saw a black snake , ever)
=============================
You're pond is a nice size. BTW we started to miss fish weeks before we saw
where they were going. The first to vanish were all our fantails and moors.
Then the Shubunkins and sarassas,... then we started with koi and they too
vanished. Then, almost by accident we started to see where they were going.
One day we caught a black racer leaving the pond with a large fantail
hanging from it's mouth. One day we entered our driveway and saw a
Kingfisher leaving the pond with a fish in it's beak, we saw a bullfrog on a
rock with part of a tail hanging from it's closed mouth, suddenly saw herons
every day fishing from the rock necklace around the ponds, one day I went to
lift a rock from the shelf to find it was the rear end of a snapping
turtle.......
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o