It has been a long time since I lived in AZ, (Tuscon, and Ajo) but back then
we cooled the house with what is called a swamp cooler, that worked on the
basis of evaporation. Those things worked fine out there, but due to the
high humidity in the east, they don't work at all. Evaporation is one of
the best forms of refrigeration, and cheap to set up. Just get a fountain
with relatively fine streams, and the water reentering the pond will be
chilled. A waterfall would have a similar effect. Shade will prevent the
pond from getting solar heating, but it will still try to get to the average
ambient, day/night temperature, except for the cooling effect of
evaporation.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Dude" wrote in message
oups.com...
I live in Peoria AZ and from mid June till mid Sept its over 100
degrees every day even at 3am its 100. My poor fish have to endure
extreem pond temps, I dont know exactly what the pond temp is but I
would guess about 90 degrees. I just got done doubling the size of it.
I would guess it's about 700 gal give or take.
1250gph pump to my UV filter, Bio Filter, & water fall. Filtration and
airiation is pretty good but the fish hide during the day trying to
stay out of the Sun... Good luck out here. I have some pigmy palms to
the back of the pond and the pond has the block wall fence on two sides
of it and I have a Ficus tree in front of it but the tree is still
young and not big enough to provide any shade yet. On top of everything
my house faces east west so the back yard gets direct son for about 6
hours.
I have read about using a small dorm size fridge and converting it to
cool the water in the pond. I would like to hear from other AZ ponders
and know if you all are doing anything for cooling your pond temps.

Thanks,
Chris

,,.How about a fine mist of water.

Which reminds me. Isn't AZ where they came up with those fine misters above
a patio to keep it cool? Why not above and around the pond? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Thanks PlainBill for informing me I dont know what hot water feels
like. "I live just a few miles from you (northern Phoenix), and I feel
you're overestimating the problem."

I also mentioned in my origianal post that I do have a waterfall, I
also have a large airstone in the water to add extra O2.

I also have two lines from my drip system that adds water to the pond
twice a day. No drip head on the line just a straight piece of drip
line so it comes out at full preasure.

I took my large umbrella that goes in the ground by the pool and placed
it next to the pond thismorning and that made a huge difference. The
umbrella is about 5' in diameter so the shade it provides covers most
of the water surface area.

Chris

Im not sure how a mister system will keep the pond water temp down? For
us humans the list mist of the water hitting our face feels good. But
since the fish is already completly wet I dont think they can
appreciate it the same way.

Chris

Im not sure how a mister system will keep the pond water temp down? For
us humans the list mist of the water hitting our face feels good. But
since the fish is already completly wet I dont think they can
appreciate it the same way.

Chris

Don't those things cool the ambient air in the area? So I was just thinking
if the temp is 105F on pavement, and the misters cooled the ambient area
around the pond to 90F, that would be a good thing for the pond? ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

The only solution (and it is not necessarily an easy one) barring expensive
refrigeration units ....

Very, very, very expensive refrigeration units. For any pond of any reasonable
size, no mortal can dream of affording such a thing. The prices would be well
into the thousands $$.

I did see an interesting home brew project where the guy built a heat exchanger
deep, deep into the earth. He had a backhoe one day, and some extra time, so
just went with it. This can work very well, and your only expense is the tubing
and the pump. He was happy with it, but discovered later that he should have
gone deeper. His area (AZ) has some pretty hot ground in summer, I guess.

At a guess, doing something like building a heat exchanger underneath a
shaded patios slab would be about optimal.

Other than that, the only other solution I can think of is to buy a
refrigeration unit (and like I said, they are expensive):

Force additional evaporation, and the pond will cool some. Course, this means
replacing the water. Which might be a plus is street water is cooler than the
pond. And you have a way of getting the chlorine out quickly enough.

No, heavy shading and making it nice and deep are about all you can do here.

I missed the original message. However, if this is to protect koi, I believe
it is proper to do temperature measurements across the depth of the pond. If
the koi can escape to a moderate temperature on the bottom of the pond, I
think they'll be okay. You might want to check with a local koi specialty
place about that.

IMPORTANT POINT: high water temp reduces the ability of the water to hold
oxygen. Physical oxygenation techniques (bottom water pumping or an airstone)
are called for in this situation.

C//

I have read about using a small dorm size fridge and converting it to
cool the water in the pond.

You can forget that, it will be a complete waste of labor.

I would like to hear from other AZ ponders
and know if you all are doing anything for cooling your pond temps.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/...ories/ssid/370

That will work if it's big enough. Keep in mind that /most/ of these units
are designed for home aquariums, and most home aquariums aren't 700 gallons.
OTOH, if one wants to take a pond from 90 to say 78 or so, a smaller one might
do it. I think one should probably do the math on the unit.

Now, before you go off and stock your pond with expensive koi that you fall
in love with, consider the consiquence if this chiller fails. At 90 degrees,
your koi will probably die.

I think you need to not have to worry about a critical failure here.

Deep pond, some shade. That's a good "plan A".

C//

And you have a pleasant day, too. I'll keep a look out for the
umbrella during the next monsoon.

PlainBill

On 25 Jun 2005 19:43:24 -0700, "Dude" wrote:

Thanks PlainBill for informing me I dont know what hot water feels
like. "I live just a few miles from you (northern Phoenix), and I feel
you're overestimating the problem."

I also mentioned in my origianal post that I do have a waterfall, I
also have a large airstone in the water to add extra O2.

I also have two lines from my drip system that adds water to the pond
twice a day. No drip head on the line just a straight piece of drip
line so it comes out at full preasure.

I took my large umbrella that goes in the ground by the pool and placed
it next to the pond thismorning and that made a huge difference. The
umbrella is about 5' in diameter so the shade it provides covers most
of the water surface area.

Chris

I'm on my second Arizona pond -- first was about 500 gallons and my
present one is about 1400 gallons at my new house. My goldfish have
survived summers in both of them and are still going strong. My ponds
are only 17" deep to keep me out of trouble with codes, etc. Other than
some plants, the main thing I did was make a ramada over the pond with a
roof of sunscreen cloth (Home Depot or Lowes). Have you tested the
water temperature?

Gabrielle, down in Ajo, Arizona

Dude wrote:
I live in Peoria AZ and from mid June till mid Sept its over 100
degrees every day even at 3am its 100. My poor fish have to endure
extreem pond temps, I dont know exactly what the pond temp is but I
would guess about 90 degrees. I just got done doubling the size of it.
I would guess it's about 700 gal give or take.
1250gph pump to my UV filter, Bio Filter, & water fall. Filtration and
airiation is pretty good but the fish hide during the day trying to
stay out of the Sun... Good luck out here. I have some pigmy palms to
the back of the pond and the pond has the block wall fence on two sides
of it and I have a Ficus tree in front of it but the tree is still
young and not big enough to provide any shade yet. On top of everything
my house faces east west so the back yard gets direct son for about 6
hours.
I have read about using a small dorm size fridge and converting it to
cool the water in the pond. I would like to hear from other AZ ponders
and know if you all are doing anything for cooling your pond temps.

Thanks,
Chris

And you have a pleasant day, too. I'll keep a look out for the
umbrella during the next monsoon.


PlainBill


Yeah I know what you mean... It will take off like a kite... The good
news is thats its really working well so far the last two days.. It
feels like the water is at least 15 degrees cooler and the fish are not
hiding so much like before. Ill have to work on something more
permanent now.

Chris

I'm on my second Arizona pond -- first was about 500 gallons and my
present one is about 1400 gallons at my new house. My goldfish have
survived summers in both of them and are still going strong. My ponds
are only 17" deep to keep me out of trouble with codes, etc. Other than

some plants, the main thing I did was make a ramada over the pond with
a
roof of sunscreen cloth (Home Depot or Lowes). Have you tested the
water temperature?


Gabrielle, down in Ajo, Arizona

I know you know what 115 feels like. your pond sounds about like mine
as far as dementions and depth. I just added some more plants and Im
going to add a bunch more anacharis pretty soon, about 70 stems and
maybe some hornwort.


Chris

Im not sure how a mister system will keep the pond water temp down?

Evaporation causes cooling as a side effect. Misting encourages
evaporation. I wouldn't be able to quantify the overall heat effect
here.

C//

Don't those things cool the ambient air in the area? So I was just thinking
if the temp is 105F on pavement, and the misters cooled the ambient area
around the pond to 90F, that would be a good thing for the pond? ~ jan

If it's the pond water that's misting, the pond water will be cooled. How
much? Dunno.

C//

Just to jump in here, mine was 86 F at about 10:00 AM (maximum
sunlight on the pond).

Estimating the temperature by sticking your hand in it is a waste of
time. When it's 110, when you first stick your hand into a pond at 86
F it feels cold. Pull it out, let the evaporation chill it for a
minute, stick it back in, the water feels hot.

PlainBill

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:04:55 -0700, Courageous
wrote:


roof of sunscreen cloth (Home Depot or Lowes). Have you tested the
water temperature?

Out of curiosity, what was your own?

C//

A: Stop by the pool section in the garden center at Home Depot on
Thunderbird at I-17. Pick up a pool / spa thermometer. Without it
you're only guessing at the temperature.

B: While you're there, look on the opposite side of the aisle for
sunscreen fabric. It's cheap, durable, and lets some light through
(for the plants).

PlainBill

On 26 Jun 2005 19:13:27 -0700, "Dude" wrote:

And you have a pleasant day, too. I'll keep a look out for the
umbrella during the next monsoon.


PlainBill


Yeah I know what you mean... It will take off like a kite... The good
news is thats its really working well so far the last two days.. It
feels like the water is at least 15 degrees cooler and the fish are not
hiding so much like before. Ill have to work on something more
permanent now.

Chris