I have noticed a problem with a Goldfish for a while now. I noticed
that he had black marks on his gill covers and down both sides, just in
certain areas, not all over. This was noticed over a year ago when my
fish returned from my brothers pond, I'd moved house and had to wait to
build my pond. These marks did not get any worse and possibly reduced
slightly until 2 to 3 weeks ago.

The fish started coming to the surface and going straight back down,
bubbles would then come to the surface.

I thought the black marks were possibly signs of a previous problem with
Ammonia although I have never found any trace of Ammonia in the pond
since it was built almost 2 years ago. I thought that the fish coming
to the surface was possibly a sign of gill flukes so used Malachite and
Formalin on two occasions as directed by the labels on the treatments to
try to get rid of anything in the pond that may cause problems.

Today I noticed that the Goldfish has also got black lips and black tips
on his tail and fins. I can't see anything else wrong with any fish in
my pond. I've got Goldfish, Orfe, Tench, Koi and Shubunkin in the pond,
they all seem happy apart from this one fish.

I've checked PH, Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite and can't find anything
wrong. Everything is reading 0 except for the PH which is 7.5, it has
been 7.5 since the pond was built, my pond is 17' x 9' x3'.

The pond was well stocked with plants but I've reduced a lot of the
planting to reduce clogging of my filter. The reduction has only taken
place this week and has had no effect on any readings with the test
kits. My filter is rated at 6 times my pond capacity so filtering
shouldn't be a problem. I have not tested the oxygen because my filter
is returning water which oxygenates the pond and I've also got a second
pump running as a fountain, again adding plenty of oxygen. Just to go a
bit further over the top I've got a air pump adding more oxygen.

To cut a long story short and get to the point. Has anybody any idea
what these black marks, lips and fin/tail tips could be?

Thanks in advance.

You might try this website:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/duncan.griffiths/Dtree.htm or
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/home.html and let's know what you come
up with. ~ jan

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:59:44 GMT, Cyril The Squirrel wrote:

I have noticed a problem with a Goldfish for a while now. I noticed
that he had black marks on his gill covers and down both sides, just in
certain areas, not all over. This was noticed over a year ago when my
fish returned from my brothers pond, I'd moved house and had to wait to
build my pond. These marks did not get any worse and possibly reduced
slightly until 2 to 3 weeks ago.

The fish started coming to the surface and going straight back down,
bubbles would then come to the surface.

I thought the black marks were possibly signs of a previous problem with
Ammonia although I have never found any trace of Ammonia in the pond
since it was built almost 2 years ago. I thought that the fish coming
to the surface was possibly a sign of gill flukes so used Malachite and
Formalin on two occasions as directed by the labels on the treatments to
try to get rid of anything in the pond that may cause problems.

Today I noticed that the Goldfish has also got black lips and black tips
on his tail and fins. I can't see anything else wrong with any fish in
my pond. I've got Goldfish, Orfe, Tench, Koi and Shubunkin in the pond,
they all seem happy apart from this one fish.

I've checked PH, Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite and can't find anything
wrong. Everything is reading 0 except for the PH which is 7.5, it has
been 7.5 since the pond was built, my pond is 17' x 9' x3'.

The pond was well stocked with plants but I've reduced a lot of the
planting to reduce clogging of my filter. The reduction has only taken
place this week and has had no effect on any readings with the test
kits. My filter is rated at 6 times my pond capacity so filtering
shouldn't be a problem. I have not tested the oxygen because my filter
is returning water which oxygenates the pond and I've also got a second
pump running as a fountain, again adding plenty of oxygen. Just to go a
bit further over the top I've got a air pump adding more oxygen.

To cut a long story short and get to the point. Has anybody any idea
what these black marks, lips and fin/tail tips could be?

Thanks in advance.

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

"Cyril The Squirrel" wrote in message
.. .
I have noticed a problem with a Goldfish for a while now. I noticed
that he had black marks on his gill covers and down both sides, just in
certain areas, not all over...........
================
You can check www.koivet.com, a site run by a Lic. veterinarian who treats
and keeps pond fish.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
lid says...

"Cyril The Squirrel" wrote in message
.. .
I have noticed a problem with a Goldfish for a while now. I noticed
that he had black marks on his gill covers and down both sides, just in
certain areas, not all over...........
================
You can check www.koivet.com, a site run by a Lic. veterinarian who treats
and keeps pond fish.

Thanks for that, it looks like things are pointing the way I expected
apart from the black around the mouth. That's the bit that has thrown
me more than anything else, I can't find an explination for that one,
it's head scratching time.

I've got quite a good book which came highly reccomended, Handbook of
Fish Diseases by Dieter Untergasser so I'll take another look through it
to see if I've missed something.

In article , JJsPond@noe-
mail.com says...
You might try this website:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/duncan.griffiths/Dtree.htm or
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/home.html and let's know what you come
up with. ~ jan

snip

Thanks Jan, will do.

"Cyril The Squirrel" wrote in message
.. .
To cut a long story short and get to the point. Has anybody any idea
what these black marks, lips and fin/tail tips could be?
===================
I was thinking,... if these are shubunkins they do sometimes develop color
in places they didn't have it before. Could that be a possibility? They
can go through some real color changes.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

I have had some of my goldfish change colors just like what you described,
including the lips, fins, sides and anywhere else on their body as they go
from black to gold or whatever other color - if all your tests come up
good, you probably don't have a problem, IMHO
Gale :~)
I have noticed a problem with a Goldfish for a while now. I noticed
that he had black marks on his gill covers and down both sides, just in
certain areas, not all over. This was noticed over a year ago when my
fish returned from my brothers pond, I'd moved house and had to wait to
build my pond. These marks did not get any worse and possibly reduced
slightly until 2 to 3 weeks ago.

The fish started coming to the surface and going straight back down,
bubbles would then come to the surface.

I thought the black marks were possibly signs of a previous problem with
Ammonia although I have never found any trace of Ammonia in the pond
since it was built almost 2 years ago. I thought that the fish coming
to the surface was possibly a sign of gill flukes so used Malachite and
Formalin on two occasions as directed by the labels on the treatments to
try to get rid of anything in the pond that may cause problems.

Today I noticed that the Goldfish has also got black lips and black tips
on his tail and fins. I can't see anything else wrong with any fish in
my pond. I've got Goldfish, Orfe, Tench, Koi and Shubunkin in the pond,
they all seem happy apart from this one fish.

I've checked PH, Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite and can't find anything
wrong. Everything is reading 0 except for the PH which is 7.5, it has
been 7.5 since the pond was built, my pond is 17' x 9' x3'.

The pond was well stocked with plants but I've reduced a lot of the
planting to reduce clogging of my filter. The reduction has only taken
place this week and has had no effect on any readings with the test
kits. My filter is rated at 6 times my pond capacity so filtering
shouldn't be a problem. I have not tested the oxygen because my filter
is returning water which oxygenates the pond and I've also got a second
pump running as a fountain, again adding plenty of oxygen. Just to go a
bit further over the top I've got a air pump adding more oxygen.

To cut a long story short and get to the point. Has anybody any idea
what these black marks, lips and fin/tail tips could be?

Thanks in advance.

In article ,
lid says...

"Cyril The Squirrel" wrote in message
.. .
To cut a long story short and get to the point. Has anybody any idea
what these black marks, lips and fin/tail tips could be?
===================
I was thinking,... if these are shubunkins they do sometimes develop color
in places they didn't have it before. Could that be a possibility? They
can go through some real color changes.

The fish is actually a Goldfish, I do have one Shubunkin and it's
perfectly OK. This one Goldfish is the only fish that looks anything
other than perfectly healthy. It was never a problem until I moved
house and put it in my brothers pond. When it was returned I first
noticed black marks on the gill covers and was convinced that adding my
fish to his pond had caused an ammonia spike. However, I'm now not sure
because the same fish has black on other parts of it's body. I know
this can be taken as an after effect of a problem and a signal of the
healing process, the lips going black has really thrown me. The same
fish developed a behaviour change a couple of weeks ago before I noticed
the coloration around the mouth. It was coming out of the water in a
similar manner to what you see Dolphins doing when they swim next to a
boat. I haven't seen the fish come out of the water at all for probably
4 to 5 days so it could be getting back to normal.

It's a puzzle.

In article ,
says...
I have had some of my goldfish change colors just like what you described,
including the lips, fins, sides and anywhere else on their body as they go
from black to gold or whatever other color - if all your tests come up
good, you probably don't have a problem, IMHO
Gale :~)
snip

Thanks Gale,

I wouldn't have worried if it was going from black to gold as that's
normal for young fish. This one has gone the opposite way, gold to
black and it's probably 10" to 12 " long.

Wow - that's a new one to me
Gale :~)
"Cyril The Squirrel" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
says...
I have had some of my goldfish change colors just like what you
described,
including the lips, fins, sides and anywhere else on their body as they
go
from black to gold or whatever other color - if all your tests come up
good, you probably don't have a problem, IMHO
Gale :~)
snip

Thanks Gale,

I wouldn't have worried if it was going from black to gold as that's
normal for young fish. This one has gone the opposite way, gold to
black and it's probably 10" to 12 " long.

"Cyril The Squirrel" wrote in message
. ..
It was coming out of the water in a
similar manner to what you see Dolphins doing when they swim next to a
boat. I haven't seen the fish come out of the water at all for probably
4 to 5 days so it could be getting back to normal.
====================
Very interesting. Please keep us updated on what happens with this fish.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
lid says...
snip
Very interesting. Please keep us updated on what happens with this fish.

I will do that, I'm off work tomorrow so should have more time to see
what is happening over a longer period, weather permitting.

I might get the fish out of the pond and do a scrape and check it under
a scope although I don't really want to stress the fish too much. It's
one of those where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I did this a couple of years ago when I had a sick fish and couldn't
stop scratching my skin when looking at the slide and seeing everything
crawling about, it's not for the faint hearted, I'm scratching now just
thinking about it.

Is it possible that the fish has had mouth rot? I've never had a fish
with this problem so not sure how a recovering fish would look.

Has anybody had a fish that has recovered from mouth rot and how did it
look and act while recovering?

In article ,
says...
Wow - that's a new one to me
Gale :~)
snip

It's new to me, my fish are normally perfectly healthy, I've had two
fish that have had one problem each in the last four years. I suppose
I'm lucky in that way, I'd rather not become an expert on fish
problems/diseases, at least not through practical experience.

"Cyril The Squirrel" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
lid says...
snip
Very interesting. Please keep us updated on what happens with this
fish.

I will do that, I'm off work tomorrow so should have more time to see
what is happening over a longer period, weather permitting.

I might get the fish out of the pond and do a scrape and check it under
a scope although I don't really want to stress the fish too much. It's
one of those where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

$$ I know what you mean. I hate to stress them unless it's absolutely
necessary in this heat. I checked the water temp' a few hours ago and it
was 88 F. :-( I had to move some fry because two small frogs managed to
squeeze into their pool. So far they look ok. I added another air-stone.

I did this a couple of years ago when I had a sick fish and couldn't
stop scratching my skin when looking at the slide and seeing everything
crawling about, it's not for the faint hearted, I'm scratching now just
thinking about it.

$$ LOL!!!! :-D You see amazing things under the 'scope.

Is it possible that the fish has had mouth rot? I've never had a fish
with this problem so not sure how a recovering fish would look.

$$ I don't know. I do recall a platy or swordtail some years ago with
mouth rot (a bacterial infection) but it died. Why don't you wait and see
what happens..... You said the others looked ok.

Has anybody had a fish that has recovered from mouth rot and how did it
look and act while recovering?
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

How do you know what stresses a fish more, the problem it has and
letting it go so no further stresses are implied and hope for the best
or shotgun treat and cross your fingers or the process of netting it,
scoping it and getting the right treatment for it Even the most
proficient and dedicated koi keepers will net the mopst sick or
stressed out fish and see that it is scoped and gets the proper
treatment.....Not saying its not stressfull, but if that fish died
from the added stress of netting and scoping it was destined to die
anyhow........Same basic thing when you use PP in a pond for parasites
or other problems. If a fish dies and a proper dose and steps were
taken with PP that fish wa going to die no matter what you may have
done.........Go net the fish and scope it, your already ahead of the
game if you know how to scope and scrape.......and both you and the
fish will gain.

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o