In article ,
says...

How do you know what stresses a fish more, the problem it has and
letting it go so no further stresses are implied and hope for the best
or shotgun treat and cross your fingers or the process of netting it,
scoping it and getting the right treatment for it Even the most
proficient and dedicated koi keepers will net the mopst sick or
stressed out fish and see that it is scoped and gets the proper
treatment.....Not saying its not stressfull, but if that fish died
from the added stress of netting and scoping it was destined to die
anyhow........Same basic thing when you use PP in a pond for parasites
or other problems. If a fish dies and a proper dose and steps were
taken with PP that fish wa going to die no matter what you may have
done.........Go net the fish and scope it, your already ahead of the
game if you know how to scope and scrape.......and both you and the
fish will gain.


I wouldn't argue with that.

In article ,
says...
I have noticed a problem with a Goldfish for a while now. I noticed
that he had black marks on his gill covers and down both sides, just in
certain areas, not all over. This was noticed over a year ago when my
fish returned from my brothers pond, I'd moved house and had to wait to
build my pond. These marks did not get any worse and possibly reduced
slightly until 2 to 3 weeks ago.

The fish started coming to the surface and going straight back down,
bubbles would then come to the surface.
snip

I said I would update when anything changed so here goes:

I've done a scrape and checked it and didn't find too much wrong which I
found hard to beleive.

I've taken some photo's of the fish and uploaded them to
http://www.sendmefile.com/0012213
the file is 2.51mb in size and contains 8 photographs of the fish
showing it's scale colouration, lip colouration and now swelling.

I still have no idea what the problem is but would appreciate any
advice.

The file is a .rar file.

On dial up and not about to fooll with rar, but each and evey time any
of my comets got black on them it was form water paramters being out.
I bought some nice red and white feeders and a lot of them had some
unique black markings, one in particular had its dorsal fine striped
with every other spine and area between red, then white then
black,,,,and some looked like checker boards.........The black all
went away from all those fish within 3 weeks once I got them in good
water. I had been overly busy later on, and my water wa fair but not
good, and low and behold their black color was once again coming back
on them.......got my water to proper parameter and black once again
went away......The last batch of feeders I bought about 10 days ago
also had lolts of them with black marks, which most have dissapeared
now since they are being kept in decent conditions...

Then again some say its common coloration in some GF.....

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 17:19:12 GMT, Cyril The Squirrel
wrote:

===In article ,
says...
=== I have noticed a problem with a Goldfish for a while now. I noticed
=== that he had black marks on his gill covers and down both sides, just in
=== certain areas, not all over. This was noticed over a year ago when my
=== fish returned from my brothers pond, I'd moved house and had to wait to
=== build my pond. These marks did not get any worse and possibly reduced
=== slightly until 2 to 3 weeks ago.
===
=== The fish started coming to the surface and going straight back down,
=== bubbles would then come to the surface.
=== snip
===
===I said I would update when anything changed so here goes:
===
===I've done a scrape and checked it and didn't find too much wrong which I
===found hard to beleive.
===
===I've taken some photo's of the fish and uploaded them to
===http://www.sendmefile.com/0012213
===the file is 2.51mb in size and contains 8 photographs of the fish
===showing it's scale colouration, lip colouration and now swelling.
===
===I still have no idea what the problem is but would appreciate any
===advice.
===
===The file is a .rar file.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
says...
On dial up and not about to fooll with rar, but each and evey time any
of my comets got black on them it was form water paramters being out.
I bought some nice red and white feeders and a lot of them had some
unique black markings, one in particular had its dorsal fine striped
with every other spine and area between red, then white then
black,,,,and some looked like checker boards.........The black all
went away from all those fish within 3 weeks once I got them in good
water. I had been overly busy later on, and my water wa fair but not
good, and low and behold their black color was once again coming back
on them.......got my water to proper parameter and black once again
went away......The last batch of feeders I bought about 10 days ago
also had lolts of them with black marks, which most have dissapeared
now since they are being kept in decent conditions...

Then again some say its common coloration in some GF.....
snip

I know some people are a bit worried about compressed files and it's
sensible, that's why I mentioned the file type. Size is also important
for people with really slow dial up's.

I've uploaded the photo's but they are between 317kb and 334kb.

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576663&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576668&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576670&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576671&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576676&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576678&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576680&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576682&type=viewpic

"Cyril The Squirrel" wrote in message
. ..
I've uploaded the photo's but they are between 317kb and 334kb.

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576663&type=viewpic

This is what I get:

Warning: mysql_connect(): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket
'/var/tmp/mysql.sock' (111) in
/home/imagehos/public_html/bapi/db/mysql_impl.php on line 21

Fatal error: 10001
Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/tmp/mysql.sock'
(111)
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
lid says...
snip

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576663&type=viewpic

This is what I get:

Warning: mysql_connect(): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket
'/var/tmp/mysql.sock' (111) in
/home/imagehos/public_html/bapi/db/mysql_impl.php on line 21

Fatal error: 10001
Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/tmp/mysql.sock'
(111)

It's just worked for me but the service is free and not 100% reliable,
thanks.

I've uploaded the photo's but they are between 317kb and 334kb.

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576663&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576668&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576670&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576671&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576676&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576678&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576680&type=viewpic

http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=576682&type=viewpic

That is one BIG goldfish! Did you report your water parameters?

If there isn't a problem with those, perhaps like koi, black can come and
go. I know pH alone can cause black freckles in koi, or make a black &
white Bekko go all white or become all black. (Not personal experience just
what I've heard.) Otherwise, the black, to me, looks like coloring, not a
skin problem. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

In article , JJsPond@noe-
mail.com says...
snip

That is one BIG goldfish! Did you report your water parameters?

I didn't report the parameters, I think I said they were OK. Ammonia,
Nitrate and Nitrite were 0 and the pH was 7.5 which it always has been.
The pHhas never moved in the pond for the 2 years in which I've had it.
The pond water is kept really clean, it looks like drinking water.

I might get a back up test kit just to make sure once in a while. The
test kit's I have are made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and I have found
them to be good in the past. I've used them for years although I'm not
sure how long I've had these ones or how long they last.

If there isn't a problem with those, perhaps like koi, black can come and
go. I know pH alone can cause black freckles in koi, or make a black &
white Bekko go all white or become all black. (Not personal experience just
what I've heard.) Otherwise, the black, to me, looks like coloring, not a
skin problem. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

That is one BIG goldfish! Did you report your water parameters?

I didn't report the parameters, I think I said they were OK. Ammonia,
Nitrate and Nitrite were 0 and the pH was 7.5 which it always has been.
The pHhas never moved in the pond for the 2 years in which I've had it.
The pond water is kept really clean, it looks like drinking water.

Do you happen to have a test for KH?

I might get a back up test kit just to make sure once in a while. The
test kit's I have are made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and I have found
them to be good in the past. I've used them for years although I'm not
sure how long I've had these ones or how long they last.

That's the brand I use, they have a manufacturing date on the bottle's
front label called a Lot No. They are "supposedly" good for 2 years past
that date. Example: I have an old test kit sitting on my desk here to refer
to. It says its Lot No. is 86A0802, so its manufacturing date was 08/2002
thus expired 08/2004. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

In article , JJsPond@noe-
mail.com says...
snip

Do you happen to have a test for KH?

I do have a test for KH but have not done the test as I don't know where
it is.

snip

That's the brand I use, they have a manufacturing date on the bottle's
front label called a Lot No. They are "supposedly" good for 2 years past
that date. Example: I have an old test kit sitting on my desk here to refer
to. It says its Lot No. is 86A0802, so its manufacturing date was 08/2002
thus expired 08/2004. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Very interesting Jan, I've just checked my Ammonia kit and it is out of
date (86A1101). A long time out of date and it probably was when I
bought it so without checking the others I'd say they were all out of
date. I bought the kit over the internet so wouldn't have been able to
check the info' even if I knew where to check at the time. Have you
tested the out of date kit against a new kit? If so were the results
different?

I'll renew all kits from a shop where I can check the labels before
handing over any money.

By the way, the fish eventually died, my kids were devastated as
something personal was associated with the fish. I did find out that
the problem was a stone stopping the fish from passing waste. It had
partly swallowed the stone, it almost managed to pass it, I doubt I
could have done much for the fish. I'll spend some time trying to
locate a local vet for future reference although I doubt I'll find one
that normally works with fish. We have a local large aquarium so they
might be able to point me in the right direction.

I really hate losing pets as I feel really responsible for them and will
spend a fortune to keep them in good health. The most I've spent trying
to help one fish was in the region of 600 uk pounds. The fish was ill
and I didn't know what was wrong with it so I bought a huge tank with
all of the kit so that I could bring the fish indoors to keep an eye on
it. Then I bought a good quality microscope so that I could identify
the problem so that I could treat it. Then came books, videos,
chemicals, test kits, the list goes on and on and on.

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:08:28 GMT, Cyril The Squirrel wrote:

Very interesting Jan, I've just checked my Ammonia kit and it is out of
date (86A1101). A long time out of date and it probably was when I
bought it so without checking the others I'd say they were all out of
date. I bought the kit over the internet

I've had better luck over the net than locally. I usually write the company
a note in the comments area (if they have one) regarding the lot no. and
not to send me any old test kits. If they don't have a comments area I
write them an E prior to ordering. Nutrafin produced by Hagen out of
Canada.... now those kits don't try to hide their dates in a Lot No. They
have the expiration date right on the box and claim they last longer than 2
years. Last summer I purchased their pH kit with an expiration date of
7/2008 on it. In my case, I go thru pH faster than anything else, using
most to all of it in a season as I compare pH in pond & tanks when moving
fish in or out.

As far as using them after the date. When we had the KHA class, the older
ones were less accurate when using a standard to test them against. Strips
being the worst, since they're so sensitive to being left in the sun, heat,
cold and they just die after the expiration date (had that happen to me, so
I don't waste the money on them any more).

By the way, the fish eventually died

Sorry to hear about the fish, but nice to know there was a reason that you
couldn't have prevented. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

In article , JJsPond@noe-
mail.com says...
snip

I've had better luck over the net than locally. I usually write the company
a note in the comments area (if they have one) regarding the lot no. and
not to send me any old test kits. If they don't have a comments area I
write them an E prior to ordering. Nutrafin produced by Hagen out of
Canada.... now those kits don't try to hide their dates in a Lot No. They
have the expiration date right on the box and claim they last longer than 2
years. Last summer I purchased their pH kit with an expiration date of
7/2008 on it. In my case, I go thru pH faster than anything else, using
most to all of it in a season as I compare pH in pond & tanks when moving
fish in or out.

I once lived in an area where the water was very soft and went through
pH kits as it they were going out of fashion. Keeping a stable pH
wasn't impossible but it was a big problem. The biggest problem I had
was after heavy rain and it wasn't due to run off. The pH could change
by .5 to 1.0 within a few hours, this happened twice, I never allowed it
to happen again, it meant large water changes. The water changes were a
pain in summer as I had to regulate the temperature by adding hot and
cold water at the same time. I'd put both through the same hose and
adjust until I could get the same temperature as the pond.

I only got fish originally because I thought you just had to drop them
in water and that was it. I suppose they must me one of the hardest
pets to keep and that's probably what makes keeping them more
interesting.

As far as using them after the date. When we had the KHA class, the older
ones were less accurate when using a standard to test them against. Strips
being the worst, since they're so sensitive to being left in the sun, heat,
cold and they just die after the expiration date (had that happen to me, so
I don't waste the money on them any more).

By the way, the fish eventually died

Sorry to hear about the fish, but nice to know there was a reason that you
couldn't have prevented. ~ jan

The black on the fish didn't help, I was looking for a different
problem.

I only got fish originally because I thought you just had to drop them
in water and that was it. I suppose they must me one of the hardest
pets to keep and that's probably what makes keeping them more
interesting. Cyril

Yes, ditto on dropping them in. I once overheard my husband talking to a
relative, while they were gazing at the pond, what a fish keeper I was, to
not only keep them alive and healthy, but the water clear. ) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I only got fish originally because I thought you just had to drop them
in water and that was it. I suppose they must me one of the hardest
pets to keep and that's probably what makes keeping them more
interesting. Cyril

Koi are easy smeeshy compared to a marine aquarium.

That's so difficult, putting one in the hands of an unread amateur is
basically a death sentence for the entire tank.

C//

And I assume your a professional on SW..............geeeeeeeeee
whizzzzzzzzzzzz I have always thought SW to be much easier than FW
once it was set up and cycled.........sounds like your the amateur
now.


On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:57:28 -0700, Courageous
wrote:

===
===I only got fish originally because I thought you just had to drop them
===in water and that was it. I suppose they must me one of the hardest
===pets to keep and that's probably what makes keeping them more
===interesting. Cyril
===
===Koi are easy smeeshy compared to a marine aquarium.
===
===That's so difficult, putting one in the hands of an unread amateur is
===basically a death sentence for the entire tank.
===
===C//


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o