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#1
15-05-2005, 07:17 AM
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Pond Solar Heating?
Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot
of shade and warms up slow. I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure. Crazy idea? what do people think? Cheers. |
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#2
15-05-2005, 07:51 AM
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"Greg Cooper" wrote in message news:6YAhe.55460$vN2.43371@clgrps13... Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot of shade and warms up slow. I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure. Crazy idea? what do people think? =========================== What about building a green house type building over it? A wood frame covered with heavy greenhouse plastic perhaps? There's always moving SOUTH. :-) -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." :-) ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
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#3
15-05-2005, 11:40 AM
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Greg Cooper wrote:
Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot of shade and warms up slow. I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure. Crazy idea? what do people think? Cheers. I thought about doing this myself however the thing that put me off was that solar heating would deliver during the day. The consensus seemed to be that fish like slow temperature change. My pond already has a 2-3 C temperature difference between day and night, and increasing this would likely stress the fish. Some Koi people claim that anything more that 0.5 C, a day is stressful at least for Koi. However my pond gets lots of sun so it might work for a shaded pond, you'd effectively be getting the sun without the sunlight (and associated algae) On the practicalities you could have a heat exchanger in the pond and circulate your heat transfer liquid (presumably water with some additives) and so not have algae clog up the system. From what I read there are two main types of solar collectors, the swimming pool type which are designed to raise a large amount of water a relatively small temperature would be appropriate, there are some aimed at domestic water aimed at heating a small amount of water but heat it to high temperatures - these are probably inappropriate. Thinking on the fly - maybe if you had a relatively small tank which was well insulated, heated to high temperature, and then pumped that liquid to your heat exchanger in the pond, you could deliver heat in controlled way throughout the day and night. Sounds expensive though :-( and you'd need a fairly sophisticated control system. I'd be very interested if this turned into anything more than a thought experiment. Good luck Peter |
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#4
15-05-2005, 01:34 PM
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Greg,
When we were in Miami, we used 1" black polypipe to make a solar heater. It coiled on the roof and returned to the pond. The coils were flat on the roof with a 2 x 4 and plummer's tape to keep them in place. The pipe went back into the pond so there was a continuous column of water. The filter ran it. The result was 88 degree winter water. That was swimming pool water, so we had no growth of algae, etc. But, check your regular pond piping....ours has only thin black coating on the inside. I suspect yours would be similar. The benefit of a small pipe and pond water would be low cost. The rolls of pipe are cheap and the splices easy: inserts and hose clamps. OUrs ran 6 years without a problem. We moved. My concern for coils in BC would the freezes in the winter. It would be hard to drain a coil. Might be that the coil would best be threaded through holes in the 2 x 4 so that it could be removed and drained in the fall. You would probably want to monitor temp to see how the pond fares with whatever rate of change you get. Afurther thought: how would hte plants respond if the water were warm and the air cool? Probably irrelevant if you are so shaded. Good luck! Jim Greg Cooper wrote: Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot of shade and warms up slow. I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure. Crazy idea? what do people think? Cheers. |
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#5
15-05-2005, 03:13 PM
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Greg Cooper wrote:
Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot of shade and warms up slow. I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season for my finned friends. Not going to work. Here is what you have to do. Put a dome over the pond, and invite a bunch friend over to see a porn flick, have theem eat lots of chile with red bean bake by a negro nanny. Then when they have to fart; have them go to the dome and fart there. Your pond will get warm very fast. McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." :-) ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
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#7
15-05-2005, 08:14 PM
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"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
... This is another forged post from Jabriol/Antonio L Santana-Candia Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries in their entirety just to point out they are forgeries? Those of us that can read and understand usenet headers well enough to recognize forgeries can do so with out you pointing them out. The rest don't understand or care. So far all you are doing is succeeding in increasing the noise level, so stop! it's not helping anyone solve the problem, at best all it's doing is encouraging people who have simple killfile rules to just add lid into their list. It won't be long until jabriol gets the idea of following up all your posts and claiming they are forgeries as well. -S |
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#8
15-05-2005, 08:23 PM
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"Greg Cooper" wrote in message news:6YAhe.55460$vN2.43371@clgrps13... Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot of shade and warms up slow. I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure. Crazy idea? what do people think? Cheers. I've often toyed with that very idea myself. The water in the solar panels would have to be a closed system. Circulating pond water through the solar panels would just clog up the collectors with muck and algae, so the bottom of the pond would need some kind of radiator/heat exchanger. You didn't say how large your pond is, in a small pond you'd have to be careful, it's fairly easy to turn a small pond into a hot tub if you run the solar heater in the summer. I suspect that by the time you add in the cost of a pump that can raise water a good 20 feet into the air, the solar panels, the plumbing etc probably cheaper to just add a pond heater. -S |
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#9
15-05-2005, 10:32 PM
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"Snooze" wrote in message .. . "Reel McKoi" wrote in message ... This is another forged post from Jabriol/Antonio L Santana-Candia Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries in their entirety just to point out they are forgeries? ## Wouldn't you? Or would you rather have people think you're a rude, crude semi-literate troll? Those of us that can read and understand usenet headers well enough to recognize forgeries can do so with out you pointing them out. The rest don't understand or care. So far all you are doing is succeeding in increasing the noise level, so stop! ## You wouldn't mind him using YOUR name to post rude posts here, pretending he's you? it's not helping anyone solve the problem, at best all it's doing is encouraging people who have simple killfile rules to just add lid into their list. It won't be long until jabriol gets the idea of following up all your posts and claiming they are forgeries as well. ## What do you suggest I do? Change my nick every day and have the trolls start to whine about nym shifting again? After all, all I posted were ON TOPIC posts here for years and years, until the troll followed me here.... do you suggest I start to use an anonymous remailer like so many others are doing because of him? -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." :-) ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
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#10
15-05-2005, 10:54 PM
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$$~Roy~ wrote On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:32:00 -0500, "Reel McKoi" wrote: === ==="Snooze" wrote in message .com... === "Reel McKoi" wrote in message === ... === This is another forged post from Jabriol/Antonio L Santana-Candia === === === Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries in their === entirety just to point out they are forgeries? === ===## Wouldn't you? Or would you rather have people think you're a rude, crude ===semi-literate troll? $$ Why not, call a spade a spade, you are afterall all of the above and more! === === Those of us that can read and understand usenet headers well enough to === recognize forgeries can do so with out you pointing them out. The rest ===don't === understand or care. === So far all you are doing is succeeding in increasing the noise level, so === stop! === ===## You wouldn't mind him using YOUR name to post rude posts here, ===pretending he's you? $$ Others did not **** him off like you did and continue to do.......you made your bed, now lie in it, you probably slept in worse in your lousy life. === ===it's not helping anyone solve the problem, at best all it's doing is === encouraging people who have simple killfile rules to just add === lid into their list. === === It won't be long until jabriol gets the idea of following up all your ===posts === and claiming they are forgeries as well. === ===## What do you suggest I do? Change my nick every day and have the trolls ===start to whine about nym shifting again? After all, all I posted were ON ===TOPIC posts here for years and years, until the troll followed me here.... ===do you suggest I start to use an anonymous remailer like so many others are ===doing because of him? $$ YOU could put a rope around your neck and go plow your husbands mary ja wanna crop and portray the jackass that you truly are in a more realistic manner..... ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o |
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#11
16-05-2005, 03:34 AM
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Snooze wrote:
Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries in their entirety just to point out they are forgeries? Those of us that can read and understand usenet headers well enough to recognize forgeries can do so with out you pointing them out. The rest don't understand or care. |
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#12
16-05-2005, 11:12 AM
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Snooze wrote:
I've often toyed with that very idea myself. The water in the solar panels would have to be a closed system. Circulating pond water through the solar panels would just clog up the collectors with muck and algae, so the bottom of the pond would need some kind of radiator/heat exchanger. You didn't say how large your pond is, in a small pond you'd have to be careful, it's fairly easy to turn a small pond into a hot tub if you run the solar heater in the summer. I suspect that by the time you add in the cost of a pump that can raise water a good 20 feet into the air, the solar panels, the plumbing etc probably cheaper to just add a pond heater. Its about 1000 Gal. Yes I expect you are right that the pump and piping required would not make this a cheap project. That and our local does not get a lot of consistent sun in the winter when you need the heat. |
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#13
16-05-2005, 05:51 PM
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The pump requirements are not that extreme. Since the piping up to the roof
and back is a closed system the pump doesn't need enough head to get to the roof. The water on its way up to the roof is balanced by the water on its way back down. The pump only has to overcome the dynamic head caused by friction losses in the pipe. The system would have to be primed by something like a garden hose. The black poly pipe is very cheap. No heat exchanger is needed, black poly will normally only grow a thin biofilm on the inside when used with pond water. You want to be able to turn it off when the sun isn't shining otherwise it makes a great radiator to cool your pond. I built a system like this when I was a teenager to warm our backyard above ground pool in the spring. Just a long coil of black poly pipe on a 4x4 piece of plywood. -- Mark "Greg Cooper" wrote in message news:4uZhe.118883$3V3.46877@edtnps89... Snooze wrote: I've often toyed with that very idea myself. The water in the solar panels would have to be a closed system. Circulating pond water through the solar panels would just clog up the collectors with muck and algae, so the bottom of the pond would need some kind of radiator/heat exchanger. You didn't say how large your pond is, in a small pond you'd have to be careful, it's fairly easy to turn a small pond into a hot tub if you run the solar heater in the summer. I suspect that by the time you add in the cost of a pump that can raise water a good 20 feet into the air, the solar panels, the plumbing etc probably cheaper to just add a pond heater. Its about 1000 Gal. Yes I expect you are right that the pump and piping required would not make this a cheap project. That and our local does not get a lot of consistent sun in the winter when you need the heat. |
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#14
16-05-2005, 06:17 PM
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"Maxx Pollare" wrote in message . .. The voice of "Reel McKoi" drifted in on the cyber-winds, from the sea of virtual chaos... Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries in their entirety just to point out they are forgeries? ## Wouldn't you? Or would you rather have people think you're a rude, crude semi-literate troll? No, I rather let 7+ years of prior post speak for themselves rather then add to the current mess.... So for now, where's your hands Carol? Maxx Pollare, a "small god" in his own mind... ===================================== I'm sitting on them. :-))) -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "To persevere in one's duty and be silent, is the best answer to calumny." ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
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#15
16-05-2005, 06:26 PM
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Mark Swinkels wrote:
The pump requirements are not that extreme. Since the piping up to the roof and back is a closed system the pump doesn't need enough head to get to the roof. The water on its way up to the roof is balanced by the water on its way back down. The pump only has to overcome the dynamic head caused by friction losses in the pipe. The system would have to be primed by something like a garden hose. Good point about being a closed "balenced" system. I had not thought about that. |
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