Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:23:56 GMT, Anthropy wrote:

Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

You need to check the water parameters, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and
ph. Take a sample of water with you and see if they can test it there
and if the ammonia is high you can buy something to bind it while you
are at the shop. Over 90% of fish deaths are due to poor water quality.
It's likely you will need to change quite a bit of water so get a
tapwater conditioner ready for that, you normally put it into the pond
before the fresh water so that it treats the water as it goes in.

Let us know how things go and what the water tests were.

I take it there isn't any filtration, if so what type is it and is it
clean? If it has a biological section you mustn't clean that in
tapwater since the clorine will kill the biobugs, rinse it in old pond
water. Do you have a pump/fountain to increase the oxygen content?
Can't really say anything more without more info but it could be that
you have a layer of detritus on the bottom of the pond and the warmer
temperature has started it to breakdown and deplete the oxygen. If you
do have a lot of muck in the bottom don't scoop it out with a net at
the moment. It will just release poisonous gasses into the water and
make things worse.

Everything is just guesswork at the moment but I've given you some
starting points.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 15:08:52 +0000 (GMT), "Rodney Pont"
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:23:56 GMT, Anthropy wrote:

Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

You need to check the water parameters, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and
ph. Take a sample of water with you and see if they can test it there
and if the ammonia is high you can buy something to bind it while you
are at the shop. Over 90% of fish deaths are due to poor water quality.
It's likely you will need to change quite a bit of water so get a
tapwater conditioner ready for that, you normally put it into the pond
before the fresh water so that it treats the water as it goes in.

Let us know how things go and what the water tests were.

I take it there isn't any filtration, if so what type is it and is it
clean? If it has a biological section you mustn't clean that in
tapwater since the clorine will kill the biobugs, rinse it in old pond
water. Do you have a pump/fountain to increase the oxygen content?
Can't really say anything more without more info but it could be that
you have a layer of detritus on the bottom of the pond and the warmer
temperature has started it to breakdown and deplete the oxygen. If you
do have a lot of muck in the bottom don't scoop it out with a net at
the moment. It will just release poisonous gasses into the water and
make things worse.

Everything is just guesswork at the moment but I've given you some
starting points.

Thanks for the help.
I will certainly take a sample of water and have it tested. Will the
petshop do it? or some kind of kit where I could do it myself?
The pond is very basic. It's in the garden and we tend to leave it
alone other then feeding and cleaning. It has no filtration system nor
any kind of pump or fountain.
Also, here in England right now it's winter but the temperature has
been erratic. On the occasional warm day I have fed the fish a small
amount of food. I know not to feed them under 55f which I haven't.
Could the feeding be the cause?
Is it significant that only (so far) the smaller fish have died?
Thanks.

Any pet shop that sells fish should be able to
test your water for you. They probably also sell
test kits (check the expiration date before purchasing).

I would not feed the fish at all during the winter months
to be on the safe side.

Your pond may have gotten overstocked over the years
and this is why you are having water quality problems at
this point.
Do you have a lot of plants in the pond? Plants help with filtration
but usually only in a lightly stocked pond.

Some pet shops will take excess fish off your hands. It is
the law in some parts of the US to keep people from
releasing fish into the wild. I advertised my excess fish with
a local club in our area and my fish were caught and adopted
by new pond keepers.

good luck and hope things settle down for you!
kathy

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 15:39:23 GMT, Anthropy wrote:

Thanks for the help.
I will certainly take a sample of water and have it tested. Will the
petshop do it? or some kind of kit where I could do it myself?
The pond is very basic. It's in the garden and we tend to leave it
alone other then feeding and cleaning. It has no filtration system nor
any kind of pump or fountain.
Also, here in England right now it's winter but the temperature has
been erratic. On the occasional warm day I have fed the fish a small
amount of food. I know not to feed them under 55f which I haven't.
Could the feeding be the cause?
Is it significant that only (so far) the smaller fish have died?

As Kathy says you shouldn't really feed on the occasional warm day
since the fish need to be active for long enough to digest the food.
That may happen occasionally down south there but it's unlikely up here
in Yorkshire. A larger specialist shop is more likely to test the water
for you than a small pet shop and you should be able to find a larger
range of test kits and water treatments there as well.

Stocking should be low on an unfiltered pond. The Practical Fishkeeping
website http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk has a stocking guide and
pond volume calculator that's worth looking at.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

The PetSmart shop chain certainly do free water tests, and most aquarium
shops will also test a water sample for you if you ask. You won't need
much (50ml?) but try and take it fresh and also in a clean sealed
container with as little air space above the water as possible (ammonia
is volatile). And if they use the Tetra test sticks (a little stick that
says it tests everything) bear in mind that these can be very inaccurate
for nitrite (I've switched back to using liquid test kits).

Good luck!


--
fidhw

Rodney Pont wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 15:39:23 GMT, Anthropy wrote:

Thanks for the help.
I will certainly take a sample of water and have it tested. Will the
petshop do it? or some kind of kit where I could do it myself?
The pond is very basic. It's in the garden and we tend to leave it
alone other then feeding and cleaning. It has no filtration system
nor
any kind of pump or fountain.
Also, here in England right now it's winter but the temperature has
been erratic. On the occasional warm day I have fed the fish a small
amount of food. I know not to feed them under 55f which I haven't.
Could the feeding be the cause?
Is it significant that only (so far) the smaller fish have died?

As Kathy says you shouldn't really feed on the occasional warm day
since the fish need to be active for long enough to digest the food.
That may happen occasionally down south there but it's unlikely up
here
in Yorkshire. A larger specialist shop is more likely to test the
water
for you than a small pet shop and you should be able to find a larger
range of test kits and water treatments there as well.

Stocking should be low on an unfiltered pond. The Practical
Fishkeeping
website http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk has a stocking guide
and
pond volume calculator that's worth looking at.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk
The pond is definitely overstocked. You need to reduce the number of
fish soon even in winter the water quality will be poor. Never be
tempted to feed the fish on nice warm days in the winter because they
can't digest the food which then rots in their stomachs killing them.
Good luck.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:23:56 GMT, Anthropy wrote:

Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

It could be a number of things. Taking a couple water sample to be
tested begins troubleshooting the problem. Fish can be very sensitive
to many substances such as paint, adhesives, pesticides, detergents,
etc. which are seemingly non-toxic to humans. If anything, changing
the water or moving the fish to a temporary tank might save them.

Goldfish can tolerate cold water well, but can be traumatized with
fast temperature changes. Have you always had 40 fish in about 350
gallons? "Do not exceed one inch of goldfish to one gallon of water,"
or in your case all of your goldfish can be up to 8.75" and your
capacity is reached.

Please let us know how the goldfish are doing.

When you say the temperature was over 55 deg. did you mean the air or
the water? The water temp is the one that matters to fish.

Don

Anthropy wrote:
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

yOU NEED TO CLEAN POND MUCK OUT AT LEAST once a year. And add a veggie
filter.



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:00:12 GMT, southernbc
wrote:


Anthropy wrote:
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

When you say the temperature was over 55 deg. did you mean the air or
the water? The water temp is the one that matters to fish.

Don

Firstly thanks to everyone for your help.
Another fish was dead this morning. I noticed it looking poorly
yesterday. When I took it out the pond it's eyes were white and it
had a red patch on its underside. Once again, one of the small ones.
The other fish look fine.
I'm afraid to say the 55f I was referring to was the air. It seems
obvious now you've mentioned it that I should have been measuring the
water temperature.
I've stopped feeding them completely now even though they were quite
lively this morning and obviously wanting food.
We're also going to remove some and take them to the pond in the local
park. Would it be better to remove the big ones or the smaller ones?
I shall get the water testing kit tomorrow and post the results.
Once again, thanks for your help.

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 10:16:46 -0500, (REBEL JOE)
wrote:

yOU NEED TO CLEAN POND MUCK OUT AT LEAST once a year. And add a veggie
filter.



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

Hi
What is the best time of year to clean the pond? I live in the UK.
When the pond is being cleaned do I store the fish in water taken from
the original pond or in clean water? ( tap water?)
Reading through the posts here it would seem there is a proper order
in which to replace the contents of the pond (plants stones etc) and
water after it has been cleaned. What is it?
What's a veggie filter?
Sorry about all the questions but I'm on a very steep learning curve.
Thanks for any help.

When we clean our pond, in the spring, we drain it down by opening
a valve which sends the water underneath a very happy pine
tree instead of down our water fall.
We net the fish out and store them in a 150 gallon stock tank (many
time pond keepers clubs will have large tanks for loan for this
purpose). This tank is filled with pond water and a net is secured over
the top. It is mostly in the shade. We run an air pump attached to a
bubbler stone in the tank.
Plants are taken out. Placed in the shade, divided or repotted if
needed. We have no rocks in the pond.

The muck is scopped out. Dumped around trees for food. We do not scrub
the sides. No chemicals are used in cleaning.

Put the plants back in. We fill the pond from the hose, adding water
slowly over the day. Add the right amount of dechlor (available at
petstores - also important to know if your water system adds
chloramines which require a different product).

When the pond temperature is the same as the tank temperature (within
10 degrees) we put the fish back in.

A veggie filter is a setup where you run your pond water through a
plethora of plants. In our setup we run the water through a tank filled
with water hyacinth (which I don't think are available in your area)
and then into a waterfall filled with watercress. The plants filter the
fishy waste and use up a lot of the nutrients that single cell algae
thrives on and keep the pond clear. The roots of the plants catch a lot
of the mulm and dirt.

kathy :-)

I have both a large koi pond and a goldfish pond of similar size to your
own, I never feed any of them from when it gets cold october'ish until late
March / early April and have never seen any ill effects. As regards the
goldfish I have plenty of plants in their pond and never feed them at any
time, they seem to thrive on this neglect as the original 12 have now
multiplied in to! well I loose count but well past the 40 in your own.
As for maintenance I usually just cut all the plants hard back in
October and net as much rubbish of the bottom as possible and as for the
rest of the year I just top up for evaporation.
A doddle after sorting out the complicated system in the koi Pond.

Jon
Doncaster


"Anthropy" wrote in message
...
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

"Anthropy" wrote:
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small

Since it is the smaller ones dying, imo, your pond has hit what I call
"critical mass".

My suggestion would be to get a large tub, 20 gallons and fill with clean
(before you stir it up) pond water. Catch 4 of the largest, nicest looking
goldfish and put in this tub.

Now catch the rest to take to the pond store (not to the local pond unless
you have permission). Being one of the volunteer workers at a similar
"local pond" I'm not happy with people that do that. Completely drain the
pond and muck it out as Kathy mentioned. A shop vac, if you have one, works
quite well. I will repeat, rinse sides, but don't scrub. Put plants back
in, refill with needed water treatments and place tub, with the 4 keeper
goldfish, in the pond *do not turn them loose yet* add some of the fresh
pond water to the tub. Let tub float around pond overnight, and release
them in the morning... or if the evening is warm add an airstone.

To prevent critical mass from happening again, don't feed these fish ever!
They will keep their own population down within the means of the pond
providing. I'd also figure out a way to cover the pond in the fall to keep
leaves and such out. You can see how I do that with my ponds on my website.
~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website