After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
escape. My questions a

1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.



FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi

On 28 Sep 2004 13:21:03 -0700, (MC) wrote:

===After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
===floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
===pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
===escape. My questions a
===
===1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
===it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
===it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
===wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?
===
===2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
===it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
===anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
==="heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.
===
===
===
===FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi


No, an aquarium type heater is not going to burn anything inside a
pond enclosure, and your liner should be safe. There is just too much
mass that acts like a giant heatsink along with outside temps for thr
heater to reach any temps capable of hurting fish, liner etc. Look at
it this way, your gas furnace or even your electric furnace gets
pretty darn hot, but air ocming out of it is nowhere near the temp of
what the air is after its heated in the furnace combustion chambers
plenum or goes across the heating elements all due to the quanities
and masses of the duct work etc, same thing for the aquarium heater,
it will never get caughtup to a tmp capable of doing pond any damage,
expecially in cold weather.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

On 28 Sep 2004 13:21:03 -0700, (MC) wrote:

===After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
===floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
===pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
===escape. My questions a
===
===1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
===it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
===it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
===wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?
===
===2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
===it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
===anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
==="heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.
===
===
===
===FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi


No, an aquarium type heater is not going to burn anything inside a
pond enclosure, and your liner should be safe. There is just too much
mass that acts like a giant heatsink along with outside temps for thr
heater to reach any temps capable of hurting fish, liner etc. Look at
it this way, your gas furnace or even your electric furnace gets
pretty darn hot, but air ocming out of it is nowhere near the temp of
what the air is after its heated in the furnace combustion chambers
plenum or goes across the heating elements all due to the quanities
and masses of the duct work etc, same thing for the aquarium heater,
it will never get caughtup to a tmp capable of doing pond any damage,
expecially in cold weather.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

"MC" wrote in message
om...
After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
escape. My questions a

1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.



FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi

You'd have to have one hell of an aquarium heater to do the job you are asking
of it. On the other hand, there are products out there that do the job more
efficiently. I use a pond de-icer. It only raises the temperature at the
surface to a level that will keep most of the pond ice-free, so it isn't on all
the time, and saves on the electrical bill. Check out this web page for more
information on pond de-icers:

http://www.pondsolutions.com/pond-heaters.htm

The one I have is the green one.

Good luck.

"MC" wrote in message
om...
After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
escape. My questions a

1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.



FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi

You'd have to have one hell of an aquarium heater to do the job you are asking
of it. On the other hand, there are products out there that do the job more
efficiently. I use a pond de-icer. It only raises the temperature at the
surface to a level that will keep most of the pond ice-free, so it isn't on all
the time, and saves on the electrical bill. Check out this web page for more
information on pond de-icers:

http://www.pondsolutions.com/pond-heaters.htm

The one I have is the green one.

Good luck.

--

"MC" wrote in message
om...
After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
escape. My questions a

1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.



FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi

I'll agree with George here. We have a pool and last winter we left the
solar blanket underneath the black winter tarp. It's didn't lessen the ice
at all. The solar blanket just froze intot he ice. I'm in zone 6b and I use
a stock tank de-icer in the pond. I don't think the aquarium heater is going
to do it...
Janet in Niagara Falls

"Janet" wrote in message
...


--

"MC" wrote in message
om...
After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
escape. My questions a

1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.



FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi

I'll agree with George here. We have a pool and last winter we left the solar
blanket underneath the black winter tarp. It's didn't lessen the ice at all.
The solar blanket just froze intot he ice. I'm in zone 6b and I use a stock
tank de-icer in the pond. I don't think the aquarium heater is going to do
it...
Janet in Niagara Falls

The de-icer worked great for me.

MC wrote:

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.

40? _That_ is some amount of heat. If an aquarium heater works at all,
your surface temperature is going to be within a degree or two of the
freezing point. Forget the heater, use a bubbler.
--
derek

Yes. put something around the heater to keep it from touching the pond liner. or,
suspend it from something over the pond.
I wouldnt recommend leaving the bubble wrap floating on the water. find some way of
suspending it 4-5 inches over the top. and strong enough to hold snow.
you need an air pump and airstones to put oxygen into the water.
If you seal the bubble wrap up and over teh pond, then do use a bucket filter with a
pump to keep moving the water and cleaning up the water during the winter.
in your small pond the temp could stay well above 55oF most of the winter. my 1600
gallon did all but one month. and I fed them a little bit every few days all winter
too. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:
After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
escape. My questions a

1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.



FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
MC wrote:

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.

40? _That_ is some amount of heat. If an aquarium heater works at all,
your surface temperature is going to be within a degree or two of the
freezing point. Forget the heater, use a bubbler.


How big a bubbler should we get for a 12x12 pond, 2-3 foot deep. We have a
number of small goldfish, but nothing bigger then 5 inches.


--
Gareee© (Gareee "at" Charter "dot" net)
Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine.../mainframe.htm
Custom Figures, Wallpapers and more!

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
MC wrote:

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.

40? _That_ is some amount of heat. If an aquarium heater works at all,
your surface temperature is going to be within a degree or two of the
freezing point. Forget the heater, use a bubbler.


How big a bubbler should we get for a 12x12 pond, 2-3 foot deep. We have a
number of small goldfish, but nothing bigger then 5 inches.


--
Gareee© (Gareee "at" Charter "dot" net)
Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine.../mainframe.htm
Custom Figures, Wallpapers and more!

Gareee© wrote:

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
MC wrote:

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.

40? _That_ is some amount of heat. If an aquarium heater works at all,
your surface temperature is going to be within a degree or two of the
freezing point. Forget the heater, use a bubbler.


How big a bubbler should we get for a 12x12 pond, 2-3 foot deep. We have a
number of small goldfish, but nothing bigger then 5 inches.

In S. Ontario, with temperatures down to -25C, I could keep a hole open with
a 15W aquarium air pump and one of the long (6") air stones, suspended
6-12" below the waterline.
--
derek

I had a pond deicer last year. It didn't work in Chicago. I wound up
having to bring the fish in at the last minute. Also, I believe
Chicago is too cold for a pond of my depth without a heater. A decicer
does nothing to the water temperature at the bottom of the pond where
the fish are. Koi do not hibernate. Ultra cold water is not good for
them.



"George" wrote in message ...
"MC" wrote in message
om...
After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
escape. My questions a

1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.



FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi

You'd have to have one hell of an aquarium heater to do the job you are asking
of it. On the other hand, there are products out there that do the job more
efficiently. I use a pond de-icer. It only raises the temperature at the
surface to a level that will keep most of the pond ice-free, so it isn't on all
the time, and saves on the electrical bill. Check out this web page for more
information on pond de-icers:

http://www.pondsolutions.com/pond-heaters.htm

The one I have is the green one.

Good luck.

Again, if the combination of your climate and depth of your pond
allows, a deicer is great, but I don't think it fits all situations.
Contrary to what many people think, Koi don't hibernate.

"George" wrote in message ...
"Janet" wrote in message
...


--

"MC" wrote in message
om...
After much research, I've decided to use solar bubble wrap pool cover
floated on the top of my pond and a titanium tube-style heater. The
pool cover will have a border of about an inch to allow gases to
escape. My questions a

1) How do you use one of these acquarium-type heaters? I would imagine
it would burn the pond liner if I just throw it in there. If I suspend
it, I would be concerned of it getting knocked loose. Do I need a
wire/mesh case to keep the fish from burning themselves?

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.



FYI: I am in zone 5, 500 gallons, 30" deep, 6 Koi

I'll agree with George here. We have a pool and last winter we left the solar
blanket underneath the black winter tarp. It's didn't lessen the ice at all.
The solar blanket just froze intot he ice. I'm in zone 6b and I use a stock
tank de-icer in the pond. I don't think the aquarium heater is going to do
it...
Janet in Niagara Falls

The de-icer worked great for me.

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Gareee© wrote:

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
MC wrote:

2) I've read bio filters are useless below 50 degree. So I won't run
it. Is it better to remove it from the pond, or just leave it? I
anticipate the heater will keep my pond around 40. I don't intend on
"heating" it, just keeping it from freezing solid.

40? _That_ is some amount of heat. If an aquarium heater works at all,
your surface temperature is going to be within a degree or two of the
freezing point. Forget the heater, use a bubbler.


How big a bubbler should we get for a 12x12 pond, 2-3 foot deep. We have
a
number of small goldfish, but nothing bigger then 5 inches.

In S. Ontario, with temperatures down to -25C, I could keep a hole open
with
a 15W aquarium air pump and one of the long (6") air stones, suspended
6-12" below the waterline.

Thanks, Derek. I'll save this, and try that this year. We didn' get near as
much snow as I thought we would last year, but we've had a ton of rain this
year, so we might get more cold, and more snow as well.

--
Gareee© (Gareee "at" Charter "dot" net)
Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine.../mainframe.htm
Custom Figures, Wallpapers and more!