My new pond is a mess, as new ponds tend to be. I'm trying to be very
patient as the water gets greener before it gets clearer.

The one spot I have tried to meddle in is lowering the pH. After a
month, with plants (alive but not thriving) & turtles but no fish, my pH
was high at 8.4, and my total alkalinity was high at about 250. I very
cautiously used pH Down and now the total alkalinity is about 120, which
my test kit says is ideal, but my pH is still about 8.4. What can I do
to lower pH without further lowering total alkalinity? Nitrate & nitrite
are both in the safe zones and the water has gone from very hard to
somewhere between hard & soft. The pond is about 1400 gallons with a
small waterfall and 8' stream emptying into the pond. I'm in the Sonoran
Desert in southwestern Arizona with temps 100+ most days and I have to
top off the pond about every other day to cover evaporation. I spent
last weekend erecting a shade cloth awning over the pond to help with
sunlight & heat issues.

Gabrielle, who is not a chemist

You do not need to lower your pH. The pond is clearly buffered at that pH,
perhaps from Baking Soda. The thing is acidity is the inverse of
alkalinity - if one increases the other decreases.

--
Jim and Sara Humphries, Victoria, BC
"Gabrielle" wrote in message
...
My new pond is a mess, as new ponds tend to be. I'm trying to be very
patient as the water gets greener before it gets clearer.

The one spot I have tried to meddle in is lowering the pH. After a month,
with plants (alive but not thriving) & turtles but no fish, my pH was high
at 8.4, and my total alkalinity was high at about 250. I very cautiously
used pH Down and now the total alkalinity is about 120, which my test kit
says is ideal, but my pH is still about 8.4. What can I do to lower pH
without further lowering total alkalinity? Nitrate & nitrite are both in
the safe zones and the water has gone from very hard to somewhere between
hard & soft. The pond is about 1400 gallons with a small waterfall and 8'
stream emptying into the pond. I'm in the Sonoran Desert in southwestern
Arizona with temps 100+ most days and I have to top off the pond about
every other day to cover evaporation. I spent last weekend erecting a
shade cloth awning over the pond to help with sunlight & heat issues.

Gabrielle, who is not a chemist

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:25:04 -0700, Gabrielle wrote:

===My new pond is a mess, as new ponds tend to be. I'm trying to be very
===patient as the water gets greener before it gets clearer.
===
===The one spot I have tried to meddle in is lowering the pH. After a
===month, with plants (alive but not thriving) & turtles but no fish, my pH
===was high at 8.4, and my total alkalinity was high at about 250. I very
===cautiously used pH Down and now the total alkalinity is about 120, which
===my test kit says is ideal, but my pH is still about 8.4. What can I do
===to lower pH without further lowering total alkalinity? Nitrate & nitrite
===are both in the safe zones and the water has gone from very hard to
===somewhere between hard & soft. The pond is about 1400 gallons with a
===small waterfall and 8' stream emptying into the pond. I'm in the Sonoran
===Desert in southwestern Arizona with temps 100+ most days and I have to
===top off the pond about every other day to cover evaporation. I spent
===last weekend erecting a shade cloth awning over the pond to help with
===sunlight & heat issues.
===
===Gabrielle, who is not a chemist

Alkaline and Ph always seem to go together. We have a hot tub and if
you can get the ph down to the desired point the alk is still in high
ppm for what is specified to be desireable. The only real way in a
hot tub is douse it with whatever you use for sterilizing (cholorine
or bromine) and this also brings down ph...... once we get the alk to
limits needed, alk is usually way to low. If you add sodium bicarb it
raises both alk and ph, however if you adjust the ph with soda ash it
does not affect the ph, just alk content. So I wonder if what works
for a pond to lower one and not the other or raise one and not the
other would also work in a hot tub? It seems no matter what you do its
all a chemical juggling act to get it balanced out..........one thing
I am certainly not crazy over. With a ph of 8.4 I certainly would not
wory about it.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

Gabrielle wrote:
The one spot I have tried to meddle in is lowering the pH. After a
month, with plants (alive but not thriving) & turtles but no fish, my pH
was high at 8.4, and my total alkalinity was high at about 250. I very
cautiously used pH Down and now the total alkalinity is about 120, which
my test kit says is ideal, but my pH is still about 8.4. What can I do
to lower pH without further lowering total alkalinity? Nitrate & nitrite
are both in the safe zones and the water has gone from very hard to
somewhere between hard & soft. The pond is about 1400 gallons with a
small waterfall and 8' stream emptying into the pond. I'm in the Sonoran
Desert in southwestern Arizona with temps 100+ most days and I have to
top off the pond about every other day to cover evaporation. I spent
last weekend erecting a shade cloth awning over the pond to help with
sunlight & heat issues.

So why mess with the pH? 8.4 isn't bad, especially for goldfish or koi. It's
not like you're probably planning on trying to breed tetras (or some other
acid-loving fish) in the pond.

If you're having to top off that often, just be sure to do some "real" water
changes (30% or so) every couple of weeks. Sounds like you have a lot of
dissolved minerals in your water, and there's no point in allowing them to
accumulate ad infinitum.

Gabrielle,

What is the pH & KH from the tap? Have you been doing water changes, taking
some out, before putting some more in and topping off? ~ jan

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:25:04 -0700, Gabrielle wrote:

My new pond is a mess, as new ponds tend to be. I'm trying to be very
patient as the water gets greener before it gets clearer.

The one spot I have tried to meddle in is lowering the pH. After a
month, with plants (alive but not thriving) & turtles but no fish, my pH
was high at 8.4, and my total alkalinity was high at about 250. I very
cautiously used pH Down and now the total alkalinity is about 120, which
my test kit says is ideal, but my pH is still about 8.4. What can I do
to lower pH without further lowering total alkalinity? Nitrate & nitrite
are both in the safe zones and the water has gone from very hard to
somewhere between hard & soft. The pond is about 1400 gallons with a
small waterfall and 8' stream emptying into the pond. I'm in the Sonoran
Desert in southwestern Arizona with temps 100+ most days and I have to
top off the pond about every other day to cover evaporation. I spent
last weekend erecting a shade cloth awning over the pond to help with
sunlight & heat issues.

Gabrielle, who is not a chemist

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Is this an american thing (total alkalinity)? I haven't seen a measure
(tester) for it in the UK. How does it compare to kH, gH & pH?

Sky


"Gabrielle" wrote in message
...
My new pond is a mess, as new ponds tend to be. I'm trying to be very
patient as the water gets greener before it gets clearer.

The one spot I have tried to meddle in is lowering the pH. After a
month, with plants (alive but not thriving) & turtles but no fish, my pH
was high at 8.4, and my total alkalinity was high at about 250. I very
cautiously used pH Down and now the total alkalinity is about 120, which
my test kit says is ideal, but my pH is still about 8.4. What can I do
to lower pH without further lowering total alkalinity? Nitrate & nitrite
are both in the safe zones and the water has gone from very hard to
somewhere between hard & soft. The pond is about 1400 gallons with a
small waterfall and 8' stream emptying into the pond. I'm in the Sonoran
Desert in southwestern Arizona with temps 100+ most days and I have to
top off the pond about every other day to cover evaporation. I spent
last weekend erecting a shade cloth awning over the pond to help with
sunlight & heat issues.

Gabrielle, who is not a chemist

Is this an american thing (total alkalinity)? I haven't seen a measure
(tester) for it in the UK. How does it compare to kH, gH & pH?

Sky


"Gabrielle" wrote in message
...
My new pond is a mess, as new ponds tend to be. I'm trying to be very
patient as the water gets greener before it gets clearer.

The one spot I have tried to meddle in is lowering the pH. After a
month, with plants (alive but not thriving) & turtles but no fish, my pH
was high at 8.4, and my total alkalinity was high at about 250. I very
cautiously used pH Down and now the total alkalinity is about 120, which
my test kit says is ideal, but my pH is still about 8.4. What can I do
to lower pH without further lowering total alkalinity? Nitrate & nitrite
are both in the safe zones and the water has gone from very hard to
somewhere between hard & soft. The pond is about 1400 gallons with a
small waterfall and 8' stream emptying into the pond. I'm in the Sonoran
Desert in southwestern Arizona with temps 100+ most days and I have to
top off the pond about every other day to cover evaporation. I spent
last weekend erecting a shade cloth awning over the pond to help with
sunlight & heat issues.

Gabrielle, who is not a chemist

Is this an american thing (total alkalinity)? I haven't seen a measure
(tester) for it in the UK. How does it compare to kH, gH & pH?

Sky

The test for KH is for, equal to, Total Alkalinity. If it is an "American
thing" it would be an "American chemistry thing". So ask a UK Chemist and
find out what answer you get there.

The test kits call it KH, but chemist say the correct term is Total
Alkalinity. So why the test kit isn't called TA is beyond little old me.
;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Is this an american thing (total alkalinity)? I haven't seen a measure
(tester) for it in the UK. How does it compare to kH, gH & pH?

Sky

The test for KH is for, equal to, Total Alkalinity. If it is an "American
thing" it would be an "American chemistry thing". So ask a UK Chemist and
find out what answer you get there.

The test kits call it KH, but chemist say the correct term is Total
Alkalinity. So why the test kit isn't called TA is beyond little old me.
;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Isn't total alkalinity or KH actually a measurement of the waters
hardness?




Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

KH is a measure of the buffering capacity of the pond. GH is the test for
hardness. Both read out in degrees hardness, but the difference is one
reads carbonate hardness (KH) and the other reads calcium hardness (GH).
The calcium hardness is the measure of the hardness of the water, making
soap not lather.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Roy" wrote in message
...
Isn't total alkalinity or KH actually a measurement of the waters
hardness?




Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

I think a chemist would call it buffering capacity. It does represent the
ability of the water to resist acidifcation.

--
Jim and Sara Humphries, Victoria, BC
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
Is this an american thing (total alkalinity)? I haven't seen a measure
(tester) for it in the UK. How does it compare to kH, gH & pH?

Sky

The test for KH is for, equal to, Total Alkalinity. If it is an "American
thing" it would be an "American chemistry thing". So ask a UK Chemist and
find out what answer you get there.

The test kits call it KH, but chemist say the correct term is Total
Alkalinity. So why the test kit isn't called TA is beyond little old me.
;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I think a chemist would call it buffering capacity. It does represent the
ability of the water to resist acidifcation.

--
Jim and Sara Humphries, Victoria, BC
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
Is this an american thing (total alkalinity)? I haven't seen a measure
(tester) for it in the UK. How does it compare to kH, gH & pH?

Sky

The test for KH is for, equal to, Total Alkalinity. If it is an "American
thing" it would be an "American chemistry thing". So ask a UK Chemist and
find out what answer you get there.

The test kits call it KH, but chemist say the correct term is Total
Alkalinity. So why the test kit isn't called TA is beyond little old me.
;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

From what I understand in other posts, the high pH is why my plants
aren't thriving.
Gabrielle

Jim Humphries wrote:

You do not need to lower your pH. The pond is clearly buffered at that pH,
perhaps from Baking Soda. The thing is acidity is the inverse of
alkalinity - if one increases the other decreases.

8 snip

It seems no matter what you do its
all a chemical juggling act to get it balanced out..........one thing
I am certainly not crazy over. With a ph of 8.4 I certainly would not
wory about it.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.


I wouldn't worry so much about the 8.4 except that I've been led to
believe that could be why my WH and other floaters are failing to thrive.
Gabrielle