Hello to all ponding experts. I would appreciate a few of you taking
the time to post a reply to the following question. I am in dire need
of help.

My setup consists of a 2200 gallon concrete lined pond with a hayward
1.5 hp pool pump which pumps at about 90 gpm and it has a filter
basket, and a hayward s180t sand filter, which has a flow rate of
about 35 gpm. My pond has a water fall and a bottom drain. When i
first filled the pond everything was good for about 3 months, then it
started getting green. The initial media for the filter was silica
sand. But after a few months i had to backwash everyother day. So then
i switched to lava rocks. They worked ok for about a month and then
started clogging up just as fast as the sand. I have some plants in
the pond, but the sand filter is about the only filter i have on the
system. I wouldnt mind flushing the filter if at least the water
stayed clear. I live in Tucson AZ, where it gets pretty hot and sunny.
My backyard is new so i dont have a lot of shade. i planted trees, but
they just dont seem to grow fats enough. I had a total of 4 koi to
start with, but 2 have died off, and im pretty sure it has something
to do with the green water. I am looking to find a home for these 2
fish if anyone in the tucson area is interested. ohh yes, also my
electricity bills are way too high because of running the pool pump
24/7.
So with all of my pond problems listed, i would greatly
appreciate some help. I have been looking to buy a moderate priced
filter and pump system, or maybe build one myself. If anyone has any
ideas on how to modify my current setup, or media types for the filter
i could use all the help i can get. Or if anyone has suggestions as
for what to but to fix my problem. I also forgot to mention that i did
try the liquid pond cleaner bacteria and had no luck.

I really will appreciate any advice. Thanks for the help in advance.

Matt Clark

I am not sure what model of pump you have. The majority of pool pumps are
electricity very inefficient as you have found out. Look at a pump such as
this one for a replacement that should pay for itself in electricity.

http://www.mdminc.com/Sequence_750.htm

As for the green water it most likely did not kill you fish. Take the water
to a local pet store and ask about getting it checked. Maybe the place you
bought the Koi from. Let us know the results of the water test and we can
help more. There are several things that can be checked including pH,
ammonia, nitrate and nitrite.



"matt clark" wrote in message
om...
Hello to all ponding experts. I would appreciate a few of you taking
the time to post a reply to the following question. I am in dire need
of help.

My setup consists of a 2200 gallon concrete lined pond with a hayward
1.5 hp pool pump which pumps at about 90 gpm and it has a filter
basket, and a hayward s180t sand filter, which has a flow rate of
about 35 gpm. My pond has a water fall and a bottom drain. When i
first filled the pond everything was good for about 3 months, then it
started getting green. The initial media for the filter was silica
sand. But after a few months i had to backwash everyother day. So then
i switched to lava rocks. They worked ok for about a month and then
started clogging up just as fast as the sand. I have some plants in
the pond, but the sand filter is about the only filter i have on the
system. I wouldnt mind flushing the filter if at least the water
stayed clear. I live in Tucson AZ, where it gets pretty hot and sunny.
My backyard is new so i dont have a lot of shade. i planted trees, but
they just dont seem to grow fats enough. I had a total of 4 koi to
start with, but 2 have died off, and im pretty sure it has something
to do with the green water. I am looking to find a home for these 2
fish if anyone in the tucson area is interested. ohh yes, also my
electricity bills are way too high because of running the pool pump
24/7.
So with all of my pond problems listed, i would greatly
appreciate some help. I have been looking to buy a moderate priced
filter and pump system, or maybe build one myself. If anyone has any
ideas on how to modify my current setup, or media types for the filter
i could use all the help i can get. Or if anyone has suggestions as
for what to but to fix my problem. I also forgot to mention that i did
try the liquid pond cleaner bacteria and had no luck.

I really will appreciate any advice. Thanks for the help in advance.

Matt Clark

Hi Matt,

You need a pond pump and a pond filter, a plant filter is best,
(see below).
Forget the pool stuff ;-)
I'll post my green water tips and they will give you better idea of how a pond
runs.
As for the fish, I agree with Mickey, you need to test the water and see where
you are in that area. Watch for posts by Ingrid (Solo) and click on her
website(s), good overall fish information there.


Algae fighting tips
~ Nutrients for all forms of algae are sun, new water, fish waste, fertilized
run off, rotting plants, blown in dirt.
~ New ponds and spring ponds need time for plants to get established, algae is
quicker at getting going.
~ add plants, of any kind, in the pond. Especially underwater plants.
~ Shade is good - provided by lily pads, floating plants or artificial shade
for part of the day.
~ LOW fish stocking (20 gallons per goldfish, 100 per koi after starting with
1,000 gallons) and *not* overfeeding the fish. Too many fish and too much
feeding is probably responsible for most pea soup water, followed closely by
too much decaying plant matter, sludge and overall gunk in the water
~ adding a combination mechanical and biological filter to screen gunk and
convert fishy ammonia waste for fish health.
~ build a veggie filter, to run water through plants, as easy as floating water
hyacinth in your filter (or in your pond).
~ clean up dead plant matter and screen for falling leaves
in the fall.
~ water movement, occasional water changes of 10%
~ add a sludge consumer, concentrated bacteria.
many rec.ponders use http://www.united-tech.com/m-aq4u-toc.html
~ Check your pH, too high, over 8.8, or too low, under 6.4, and most higher
plant forms can't take up the nutrients.
~ building ponds with bottom drains and skimmers.
~ do not use algaecides, they only make lots of suddenly dead algae
and that will feed the next algae bloom.
~ do not worry about algae that grows on things (substrate algae) this is good
for a pond
~ gently remove string algae
~ UV lights work on suspended algae (green water) - does cost some $$.
~ patience and time ;-)



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Pool sand filters are "mechanical" filters - you need to go to a biological
filter - in a pool you solve the green, suspended algae problem with
chlorine, in a pond you remove the nutrients the suspended algae lives on
with a bio filter so the algae dies off and you end up with clear water. As
well a bio filter, whether it's a "veggie" or a container of "media" type
has water flowing through it a lot slower than a pool filter ( less
electricity)
Gale :~)
Hello to all ponding experts. I would appreciate a few of you taking
the time to post a reply to the following question. I am in dire need
of help.

My setup consists of a 2200 gallon concrete lined pond with a hayward
1.5 hp pool pump which pumps at about 90 gpm and it has a filter
basket, and a hayward s180t sand filter, which has a flow rate of
about 35 gpm. My pond has a water fall and a bottom drain. When i
first filled the pond everything was good for about 3 months, then it
started getting green. The initial media for the filter was silica
sand. But after a few months i had to backwash everyother day. So then
i switched to lava rocks. They worked ok for about a month and then
started clogging up just as fast as the sand. I have some plants in
the pond, but the sand filter is about the only filter i have on the
system. I wouldnt mind flushing the filter if at least the water
stayed clear. I live in Tucson AZ, where it gets pretty hot and sunny.
My backyard is new so i dont have a lot of shade. i planted trees, but
they just dont seem to grow fats enough. I had a total of 4 koi to
start with, but 2 have died off, and im pretty sure it has something
to do with the green water. I am looking to find a home for these 2
fish if anyone in the tucson area is interested. ohh yes, also my
electricity bills are way too high because of running the pool pump
24/7.
So with all of my pond problems listed, i would greatly
appreciate some help. I have been looking to buy a moderate priced
filter and pump system, or maybe build one myself. If anyone has any
ideas on how to modify my current setup, or media types for the filter
i could use all the help i can get. Or if anyone has suggestions as
for what to but to fix my problem. I also forgot to mention that i did
try the liquid pond cleaner bacteria and had no luck.

I really will appreciate any advice. Thanks for the help in advance.

Matt Clark

Fish produce ammonia through their gills and other waste. Ammonia is toxic.
Bacteria convert the ammonia to nitrIte. Nitirite is toxic. Bacteria
convert nitrIte to nitrAte. NitrAte is fertilizer. If you don't have
enough plants to use up all the fertilizer, then algae does the job for you.
The bacteria form on all surfaces in what is called a biofilm. The biofilm
covers the pond, the plumbing, plant roots, and filter media. With a sand
filter, the biofilm builds up on the sand grains and clogs the filter such
that you are running very high pressures indicating a need to backwash. The
biofilm is stubborn to wash off, and you don't want it to be washed off.
Therefore sand is a poor filter material. Find a material that is smooth
and will barely sink to make backwashing easier and the filter run better.
The bead filters are sand filters that have the water run through in an up
flow method with floating plastic beads, but there are plastic bead media
that are heavy enough to settle, and these should be used in the standard
downflow mode of a sand filter. The beads should all be the same size to
accommodate water flow without clogging.

Start with testing of the water to see if the filter is working to get rid
of ammonia and nitrites since these can kill fish.

Once the filter has been converted, a lower energy pump, like a Sequence,
should be adequate, and will save you mega bucks in electricity.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"matt clark" wrote in message
om...
Hello to all ponding experts. I would appreciate a few of you taking
the time to post a reply to the following question. I am in dire need
of help.

My setup consists of a 2200 gallon concrete lined pond with a hayward
1.5 hp pool pump which pumps at about 90 gpm and it has a filter
basket, and a hayward s180t sand filter, which has a flow rate of
about 35 gpm. My pond has a water fall and a bottom drain. When i
first filled the pond everything was good for about 3 months, then it
started getting green. The initial media for the filter was silica
sand. But after a few months i had to backwash everyother day. So then
i switched to lava rocks. They worked ok for about a month and then
started clogging up just as fast as the sand. I have some plants in
the pond, but the sand filter is about the only filter i have on the
system. I wouldnt mind flushing the filter if at least the water
stayed clear. I live in Tucson AZ, where it gets pretty hot and sunny.
My backyard is new so i dont have a lot of shade. i planted trees, but
they just dont seem to grow fats enough. I had a total of 4 koi to
start with, but 2 have died off, and im pretty sure it has something
to do with the green water. I am looking to find a home for these 2
fish if anyone in the tucson area is interested. ohh yes, also my
electricity bills are way too high because of running the pool pump
24/7.
So with all of my pond problems listed, i would greatly
appreciate some help. I have been looking to buy a moderate priced
filter and pump system, or maybe build one myself. If anyone has any
ideas on how to modify my current setup, or media types for the filter
i could use all the help i can get. Or if anyone has suggestions as
for what to but to fix my problem. I also forgot to mention that i did
try the liquid pond cleaner bacteria and had no luck.

I really will appreciate any advice. Thanks for the help in advance.

Matt Clark

Hi Matt
Yup, more plants will help. I live in Mesa so I know how hard it is
for some pond plants to grow in the desert sun.
Lilies will do OK, but seems like you need at least a little shade
from marginal plants for them to survive. I have had good luck with
Hardy Lilies, Umbrella Palms (they are doing great), catails from the
Salt River, and pennywort. If you want Arizona grown plants, try
www.azgardens.com, they are actually located in Tucson. I've never
gotten pond plants from them, but my brother got some nice aquarium
plants a few months back. You can email me if you want.

On Wed, 05 May 2004 00:51:00 +0000, RichToyBox wrote:

The biofilm is stubborn to wash off, and you don't want it to
be washed off. Therefore sand is a poor filter material. Find a material
that is smooth and will barely sink to make backwashing easier and the
filter run better. The bead filters are sand filters that have the water
run through in an up flow method with floating plastic beads, but there
are plastic bead media that are heavy enough to settle, and these should
be used in the standard downflow mode of a sand filter. The beads should
all be the same size to accommodate water flow without clogging.


RTB

Is that the only difference between a swimming pool sand filter and a
pond bead filter. Is there an easy way to convert a normal pool filter to
have the water flow up? Would it be a simple enough diy job? What do you
think of the efficiency of a down flow (pool) filter when filled with a
more appropriate media than sand?

Trev

"RichToyBox" wrote in message news:TTWlc.24510$_41.1774337@attbi_s02...
Fish produce ammonia through their gills and other waste. Ammonia is toxic.
Bacteria convert the ammonia to nitrIte. Nitirite is toxic. Bacteria
convert nitrIte to nitrAte. NitrAte is fertilizer. If you don't have
enough plants to use up all the fertilizer, then algae does the job for you.
The bacteria form on all surfaces in what is called a biofilm. The biofilm
covers the pond, the plumbing, plant roots, and filter media. With a sand
filter, the biofilm builds up on the sand grains and clogs the filter such
that you are running very high pressures indicating a need to backwash. The
biofilm is stubborn to wash off, and you don't want it to be washed off.
Therefore sand is a poor filter material. Find a material that is smooth
and will barely sink to make backwashing easier and the filter run better.
The bead filters are sand filters that have the water run through in an up
flow method with floating plastic beads, but there are plastic bead media
that are heavy enough to settle, and these should be used in the standard
downflow mode of a sand filter. The beads should all be the same size to
accommodate water flow without clogging.

Start with testing of the water to see if the filter is working to get rid
of ammonia and nitrites since these can kill fish.

Once the filter has been converted, a lower energy pump, like a Sequence,
should be adequate, and will save you mega bucks in electricity.


Could anyone give me some clear instructions on how to convert an
existing sand filter to a bead filter. from what i get , you can can
just add beads and replace the sand. If i am wrong please correct me.
Thank yo uall very much for the posts so far.

Matt

The bead filters are just sand filters with the flow reversed, using
polyethylene beads. I think that some of the manufacturers actually are
able to buy a backwards control valve, but some just take the plumbing apart
on the inside, sending the current down pipe from the bottom to the top, and
vice versa. The bead cake will sometimes glue itself together with the
biofilm, so the better filters have installed a jacuzzi blower and mounted
it on the intake piping so that during the backwash, the blower sends a lot
of air up under the beads breaking the bead pack. Look at some of the bead
filter manufacturer's sites and they show the internal plumbing and the
mounting of the blower. See
http://www.pondtech.net/PDF%27s/CHAL...N%20MANUAL.pdf and
http://www.sacramentokoi.com/comparison.htm

--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"Trevor" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 05 May 2004 00:51:00 +0000, RichToyBox wrote:

The biofilm is stubborn to wash off, and you don't want it to
be washed off. Therefore sand is a poor filter material. Find a
material
that is smooth and will barely sink to make backwashing easier and the
filter run better. The bead filters are sand filters that have the water
run through in an up flow method with floating plastic beads, but there
are plastic bead media that are heavy enough to settle, and these should
be used in the standard downflow mode of a sand filter. The beads
should
all be the same size to accommodate water flow without clogging.


RTB

Is that the only difference between a swimming pool sand filter and a
pond bead filter. Is there an easy way to convert a normal pool filter to
have the water flow up? Would it be a simple enough diy job? What do you
think of the efficiency of a down flow (pool) filter when filled with a
more appropriate media than sand?

Trev

I agree, I have used for years "Magna-Drive" (magnetic driven) Supreme
Pumps for years. I have one that has had continual use since 1996 and have
only had to replace the impeller once. Thanks Mike
"Mickey" wrote in message
...
I am not sure what model of pump you have. The majority of pool pumps are
electricity very inefficient as you have found out. Look at a pump such as
this one for a replacement that should pay for itself in electricity.

http://www.mdminc.com/Sequence_750.htm

As for the green water it most likely did not kill you fish. Take the
water
to a local pet store and ask about getting it checked. Maybe the place you
bought the Koi from. Let us know the results of the water test and we can
help more. There are several things that can be checked including pH,
ammonia, nitrate and nitrite.



"matt clark" wrote in message
om...
Hello to all ponding experts. I would appreciate a few of you taking
the time to post a reply to the following question. I am in dire need
of help.

My setup consists of a 2200 gallon concrete lined pond with a hayward
1.5 hp pool pump which pumps at about 90 gpm and it has a filter
basket, and a hayward s180t sand filter, which has a flow rate of
about 35 gpm. My pond has a water fall and a bottom drain. When i
first filled the pond everything was good for about 3 months, then it
started getting green. The initial media for the filter was silica
sand. But after a few months i had to backwash everyother day. So then
i switched to lava rocks. They worked ok for about a month and then
started clogging up just as fast as the sand. I have some plants in
the pond, but the sand filter is about the only filter i have on the
system. I wouldnt mind flushing the filter if at least the water
stayed clear. I live in Tucson AZ, where it gets pretty hot and sunny.
My backyard is new so i dont have a lot of shade. i planted trees, but
they just dont seem to grow fats enough. I had a total of 4 koi to
start with, but 2 have died off, and im pretty sure it has something
to do with the green water. I am looking to find a home for these 2
fish if anyone in the tucson area is interested. ohh yes, also my
electricity bills are way too high because of running the pool pump
24/7.
So with all of my pond problems listed, i would greatly
appreciate some help. I have been looking to buy a moderate priced
filter and pump system, or maybe build one myself. If anyone has any
ideas on how to modify my current setup, or media types for the filter
i could use all the help i can get. Or if anyone has suggestions as
for what to but to fix my problem. I also forgot to mention that i did
try the liquid pond cleaner bacteria and had no luck.

I really will appreciate any advice. Thanks for the help in advance.

Matt Clark

On Thu, 06 May 2004 02:08:19 +0000, RichToyBox wrote:

The bead filters are just sand filters with the flow reversed, using
polyethylene beads. I think that some of the manufacturers actually are
able to buy a backwards control valve, but some just take the plumbing
apart on the inside, sending the current down pipe from the bottom to the
top, and vice versa. The bead cake will sometimes glue itself together
with the biofilm, so the better filters have installed a jacuzzi blower
and mounted it on the intake piping so that during the backwash, the
blower sends a lot of air up under the beads breaking the bead pack. Look
at some of the bead filter manufacturer's sites and they show the internal
plumbing and the mounting of the blower. See
http://www.pondtech.net/PDF%27s/CHAL...N%20MANUAL.pdf and
http://www.sacramentokoi.com/comparison.htm

Thnaks for the explananyion and the sites RTB i will have a look and
decide if I will try and modify the filter or use it as is.

Trev

(matt clark) wrote in message . com...
"RichToyBox" wrote in message news:TTWlc.24510$_41.1774337@attbi_s02...
Fish produce ammonia through their gills and other waste. Ammonia is toxic.
Bacteria convert the ammonia to nitrIte. Nitirite is toxic. Bacteria
convert nitrIte to nitrAte. NitrAte is fertilizer. If you don't have
enough plants to use up all the fertilizer, then algae does the job for you.
The bacteria form on all surfaces in what is called a biofilm. The biofilm
covers the pond, the plumbing, plant roots, and filter media. With a sand
filter, the biofilm builds up on the sand grains and clogs the filter such
that you are running very high pressures indicating a need to backwash. The
biofilm is stubborn to wash off, and you don't want it to be washed off.
Therefore sand is a poor filter material. Find a material that is smooth
and will barely sink to make backwashing easier and the filter run better.
The bead filters are sand filters that have the water run through in an up
flow method with floating plastic beads, but there are plastic bead media
that are heavy enough to settle, and these should be used in the standard
downflow mode of a sand filter. The beads should all be the same size to
accommodate water flow without clogging.

Start with testing of the water to see if the filter is working to get rid
of ammonia and nitrites since these can kill fish.

Once the filter has been converted, a lower energy pump, like a Sequence,
should be adequate, and will save you mega bucks in electricity.


Could anyone give me some clear instructions on how to convert an
existing sand filter to a bead filter. from what i get , you can can
just add beads and replace the sand. If i am wrong please correct me.
Thank yo uall very much for the posts so far.

Matt

Matt I have a friend who has been a pool mechanic for 20 years and he
hates Hayward products (calls them junk). Play around with your beeds
but when that pump gives up the ghost, don't fix it, replace it.

(matt clark) wrote in message . com...
"RichToyBox" wrote in message news:TTWlc.24510$_41.1774337@attbi_s02...
Fish produce ammonia through their gills and other waste. Ammonia is toxic.
Bacteria convert the ammonia to nitrIte. Nitirite is toxic. Bacteria
convert nitrIte to nitrAte. NitrAte is fertilizer. If you don't have
enough plants to use up all the fertilizer, then algae does the job for you.
The bacteria form on all surfaces in what is called a biofilm. The biofilm
covers the pond, the plumbing, plant roots, and filter media. With a sand
filter, the biofilm builds up on the sand grains and clogs the filter such
that you are running very high pressures indicating a need to backwash. The
biofilm is stubborn to wash off, and you don't want it to be washed off.
Therefore sand is a poor filter material. Find a material that is smooth
and will barely sink to make backwashing easier and the filter run better.
The bead filters are sand filters that have the water run through in an up
flow method with floating plastic beads, but there are plastic bead media
that are heavy enough to settle, and these should be used in the standard
downflow mode of a sand filter. The beads should all be the same size to
accommodate water flow without clogging.

Start with testing of the water to see if the filter is working to get rid
of ammonia and nitrites since these can kill fish.

Once the filter has been converted, a lower energy pump, like a Sequence,
should be adequate, and will save you mega bucks in electricity.


Could anyone give me some clear instructions on how to convert an
existing sand filter to a bead filter. from what i get , you can can
just add beads and replace the sand. If i am wrong please correct me.
Thank yo uall very much for the posts so far.

Matt

replace it with a non Hayward product that is.