Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

I have a 5000+ gps pump with a 11/2" outlet, I do have an fitting on the
pump side of the hose that takes it up to 2", as I understand it the larger
hose reduces the friction and increases flow....it works for me as I appear
to have great flow at my falls....I can't answer your question about a
bottom drain. as for the liner that comes to $.55 a sq ft. go to a pond
store and buy edpm rubber which is $.60-65 a ft. or go to someplace
(www.justliners.com) and buy a synthetic for much less per ft. I have
uniguard liner in my 5000 gal pond, I am very happy with it.

"DAN" wrote in message
om...
Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

Oops, 5000 gph pump, 5000 gps would be 300,000gph and yes, quite a flow :-).

"Bob H" wrote in message
...
I have a 5000+ gps pump with a 11/2" outlet, I do have an fitting on the
pump side of the hose that takes it up to 2", as I understand it the
larger
hose reduces the friction and increases flow....it works for me as I
appear
to have great flow at my falls....I can't answer your question about a
bottom drain. as for the liner that comes to $.55 a sq ft. go to a pond
store and buy edpm rubber which is $.60-65 a ft. or go to someplace
(www.justliners.com) and buy a synthetic for much less per ft. I have
uniguard liner in my 5000 gal pond, I am very happy with it.

"DAN" wrote in message
om...
Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

"DAN" wrote in message
om...
Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

1 1/2" pipe has much less friction loss than 1" and may be adequate for your
size pond. There is probably little benefit above 2". The choice to go
above 1 1/2" depends on how long the pipe is. Unless you are piping 30' or
have several right angles, I'd stay with the 1 1/2".

As for strainer on the pipe vs bottom drain, that's just one less potential
headache to deal with. The chance of bottom drain failure may be small, but
that doesn't matter when it's your bottom drain that failed. I went with
the strainer.

Liner is cheap, and the savings on second rate liner is small. 20'x20' EPDM
for the same price as your 17x18 pvc he http://www.pondliner.com/EPDM.htm
although shipping will add a good bit. You may have a local pond store with
reasonable prices on this stuff.

The smaller the pipe, the more friction, and consequently the less water
flow. There is a table showing the friction values for different sizes of
pipe at http://www.mdminc.com/friction_loss_chart.htm. I have looked at
Beckett to try to find the efficiency curves that show flow at different
heads, but they do not post them. You should be able to see the amount of
head loss due to friction for different size pipes and see that there is a
point of diminishing returns on pipe size.

As for the PVC liner, I have never heard of anyone having long term success
with it. The majority of ponds are made with the heavier EPDM, though there
are a couple of other materials that you can research by doing a Google of
rec.ponds.

My bottom drain is just a pipe that runs to the lowest part of the pond and
it works fine. It might have been better to have a true domed bottom drain,
but the vertical pipe into a deliberately created low spot has worked.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"DAN" wrote in message
om...
Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

When we can do a FULL cleaning of our ponds all we do is ge ta couple
of clean garden and drain the water out into the flower bed. When it
get down to where to will no longer drain we get a shop vac and suck
up the rest on the water and slug out .
On 10 Apr 2004 23:30:25 -0700, (DAN) wrote:

Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

Rich,
about how far from the bottom of the pond does the pipe sit?
How large a pipe are you using? And what size pump do you
have for this configuration?
Nedra

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:yflec.14094$xn4.33119@attbi_s51...
The smaller the pipe, the more friction, and consequently the less water
flow. There is a table showing the friction values for different sizes of
pipe at http://www.mdminc.com/friction_loss_chart.htm. I have looked at
Beckett to try to find the efficiency curves that show flow at different
heads, but they do not post them. You should be able to see the amount of
head loss due to friction for different size pipes and see that there is a
point of diminishing returns on pipe size.

As for the PVC liner, I have never heard of anyone having long term
success
with it. The majority of ponds are made with the heavier EPDM, though
there
are a couple of other materials that you can research by doing a Google of
rec.ponds.

My bottom drain is just a pipe that runs to the lowest part of the pond
and
it works fine. It might have been better to have a true domed bottom
drain,
but the vertical pipe into a deliberately created low spot has worked.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"DAN" wrote in message
om...
Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks for all the input. Can I put rocks with the strainer, or is it
better to leave rocks out of the pond.


"Grubber" wrote in message link.net...
"DAN" wrote in message
om...
Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

1 1/2" pipe has much less friction loss than 1" and may be adequate for your
size pond. There is probably little benefit above 2". The choice to go
above 1 1/2" depends on how long the pipe is. Unless you are piping 30' or
have several right angles, I'd stay with the 1 1/2".

As for strainer on the pipe vs bottom drain, that's just one less potential
headache to deal with. The chance of bottom drain failure may be small, but
that doesn't matter when it's your bottom drain that failed. I went with
the strainer.

Liner is cheap, and the savings on second rate liner is small. 20'x20' EPDM
for the same price as your 17x18 pvc he http://www.pondliner.com/EPDM.htm
although shipping will add a good bit. You may have a local pond store with
reasonable prices on this stuff.

First bottom drain was a vertical 2 inch pipe going from the skimmer to the
deep area. When I retrofitted with a vortex, I put in a new 4 inch vertical
pipe. Both ended about 1/2 inch to an inch off the bottom. They have been
known to pick up rocks out of the deep area. The small pond still has the 2
inch vertical pipe through the front of the skimmer. The large pond has
always had large volume Sequence pumps on it. The small pond has two
submersible pumps in the skimmer. Both started out being 1200 GPH but one
has been replaced with a 1800 GPH.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Nedra" wrote in message
ink.net...
Rich,
about how far from the bottom of the pond does the pipe sit?
How large a pipe are you using? And what size pump do you
have for this configuration?
Nedra

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:yflec.14094$xn4.33119@attbi_s51...
The smaller the pipe, the more friction, and consequently the less water
flow. There is a table showing the friction values for different sizes
of
pipe at http://www.mdminc.com/friction_loss_chart.htm. I have looked at
Beckett to try to find the efficiency curves that show flow at different
heads, but they do not post them. You should be able to see the amount
of
head loss due to friction for different size pipes and see that there is
a
point of diminishing returns on pipe size.

As for the PVC liner, I have never heard of anyone having long term
success
with it. The majority of ponds are made with the heavier EPDM, though
there
are a couple of other materials that you can research by doing a Google
of
rec.ponds.

My bottom drain is just a pipe that runs to the lowest part of the pond
and
it works fine. It might have been better to have a true domed bottom
drain,
but the vertical pipe into a deliberately created low spot has worked.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"DAN" wrote in message
om...
Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the info, Rich. I may use this technique and forget
using the Savio. It (the Savio) is still in the garage. Great
for sitting the groceries on while I open the door ;-)

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:EEDec.24527$rg5.40942@attbi_s52...
First bottom drain was a vertical 2 inch pipe going from the skimmer to
the
deep area. When I retrofitted with a vortex, I put in a new 4 inch
vertical
pipe. Both ended about 1/2 inch to an inch off the bottom. They have
been
known to pick up rocks out of the deep area. The small pond still has the
2
inch vertical pipe through the front of the skimmer. The large pond has
always had large volume Sequence pumps on it. The small pond has two
submersible pumps in the skimmer. Both started out being 1200 GPH but one
has been replaced with a 1800 GPH.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Nedra" wrote in message
ink.net...
Rich,
about how far from the bottom of the pond does the pipe sit?
How large a pipe are you using? And what size pump do you
have for this configuration?
Nedra

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:yflec.14094$xn4.33119@attbi_s51...
The smaller the pipe, the more friction, and consequently the less
water
flow. There is a table showing the friction values for different
sizes
of
pipe at http://www.mdminc.com/friction_loss_chart.htm. I have looked
at
Beckett to try to find the efficiency curves that show flow at
different
heads, but they do not post them. You should be able to see the
amount
of
head loss due to friction for different size pipes and see that there
is
a
point of diminishing returns on pipe size.

As for the PVC liner, I have never heard of anyone having long term
success
with it. The majority of ponds are made with the heavier EPDM, though
there
are a couple of other materials that you can research by doing a
Google
of
rec.ponds.

My bottom drain is just a pipe that runs to the lowest part of the
pond
and
it works fine. It might have been better to have a true domed bottom
drain,
but the vertical pipe into a deliberately created low spot has worked.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"DAN" wrote in message
om...
Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5
inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So
if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for
the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave
it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for
$169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should
just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would
just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.

IMHO, having used both a retro fit bottom drain and thru the liner, go thru
the liner.

IMNHO, leave the rocks out of the pond. ~ jan )


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I use a retro fit that sits on the bottom. If you are going to use one of
them weight it down at more than the four corner tabs like some have. Mine
floated to the top to many times last year. This year I am going to cover it
with rocks if I use it at all. Not to mention the rocks keep the fish from
getting sucked into the bottom drain.
"DAN" wrote in message
om...
Hello all,

I have a few questions and hope someone might be able to help.

I have a Beckett pump, forgot the rating, but its outlet is 1.5 inch.
I've read that you need to push the water through 3 inch pipes. So if
I use adapters I can go from 1.5 to 3 inch. Would this be ok for the
pump, would I gain anything from doing this or should I just leave it
at 1.5 inch.

Home Depot sells 20 mil PVC liner. Is this any good. 17x18 for $169
Can I get something better and cheaper.

A pond store guy told me that instead of a bottom drain, I should just
run a pipe to the deepest part of the pond. The end of it would just
be a strainer/grill that prevents fish from getting sucked in. This
way I don't have to put the drain through a liner and worry if it
leaks. Any opinions/advice about this.

Thanks in advance.