How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.

Here's what you do.

Place the liner.

Spray the foam onto the liner and then place the rock over the foam. It
won't be 100%, but pretty close. The foam works better this way than trying
to lay a "bead" of it afterwards.

FYI, This past weekend I reworked my stream a bit and tried the cheap stuff
from the home depot rather than the black stuff hawked by the pond industry.
Worked like a charm. Kind of ugly though. But others on this list seem
assured it will turn a less offensive color soon (If not I can always go
back to the black stuff later)

Joe


On 3/15/04 3:23 PM, "grubber" wrote:

How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.



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Here's what you do.

Place the liner.

Spray the foam onto the liner and then place the rock over the foam. It
won't be 100%, but pretty close. The foam works better this way than trying
to lay a "bead" of it afterwards.

FYI, This past weekend I reworked my stream a bit and tried the cheap stuff
from the home depot rather than the black stuff hawked by the pond industry.
Worked like a charm. Kind of ugly though. But others on this list seem
assured it will turn a less offensive color soon (If not I can always go
back to the black stuff later)

Joe


On 3/15/04 3:23 PM, "grubber" wrote:

How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Here's what you do.

Place the liner.

Spray the foam onto the liner and then place the rock over the foam. It
won't be 100%, but pretty close. The foam works better this way than trying
to lay a "bead" of it afterwards.

FYI, This past weekend I reworked my stream a bit and tried the cheap stuff
from the home depot rather than the black stuff hawked by the pond industry.
Worked like a charm. Kind of ugly though. But others on this list seem
assured it will turn a less offensive color soon (If not I can always go
back to the black stuff later)

Joe


On 3/15/04 3:23 PM, "grubber" wrote:

How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

joe wrote:
Here's what you do.

Place the liner.

Spray the foam onto the liner and then place the rock over the foam. It
won't be 100%, but pretty close. The foam works better this way than trying
to lay a "bead" of it afterwards.

FYI, This past weekend I reworked my stream a bit and tried the cheap stuff
from the home depot rather than the black stuff hawked by the pond industry.
Worked like a charm. Kind of ugly though. But others on this list seem
assured it will turn a less offensive color soon (If not I can always go
back to the black stuff later)

Joe


On 3/15/04 3:23 PM, "grubber" wrote:


How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.


And later on, if you develop a leak - check this place first.

The best thing to seal two pieces of liner together is the
expensive tape.
--
Bonnie
NJ

Xref: kermit rec.ponds:140469

I agree. What we did when we built our stream and ponds was this. After
laying the liner out we ended up with 3 seperate pieces. We sealed them
together with the sealing tape. Then we placed the mirror stones and checked
the flow-over. We used the regular expanding foam (low expansion type). We
shot a line of foam at the backside of the mirror stone and placed the stone
in it. After it cured we trimmed it down. It does turn brownish and green.
If it's exposed to sunlight though it will break-down over time...
Janet in snowy Niagara Falls! O

--

"Bonnie" wrote in message
...
joe wrote:
Here's what you do.

Place the liner.

Spray the foam onto the liner and then place the rock over the foam. It
won't be 100%, but pretty close. The foam works better this way than
trying
to lay a "bead" of it afterwards.

FYI, This past weekend I reworked my stream a bit and tried the cheap
stuff
from the home depot rather than the black stuff hawked by the pond
industry.
Worked like a charm. Kind of ugly though. But others on this list seem
assured it will turn a less offensive color soon (If not I can always go
back to the black stuff later)

Joe


On 3/15/04 3:23 PM, "grubber" wrote:


How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are
many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using
EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I
would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock
and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over
the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have
standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water
level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I
know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.


And later on, if you develop a leak - check this place first.

The best thing to seal two pieces of liner together is the
expensive tape.
--
Bonnie
NJ

Xref: kermit rec.ponds:140469

I agree. What we did when we built our stream and ponds was this. After
laying the liner out we ended up with 3 seperate pieces. We sealed them
together with the sealing tape. Then we placed the mirror stones and checked
the flow-over. We used the regular expanding foam (low expansion type). We
shot a line of foam at the backside of the mirror stone and placed the stone
in it. After it cured we trimmed it down. It does turn brownish and green.
If it's exposed to sunlight though it will break-down over time...
Janet in snowy Niagara Falls! O

--

"Bonnie" wrote in message
...
joe wrote:
Here's what you do.

Place the liner.

Spray the foam onto the liner and then place the rock over the foam. It
won't be 100%, but pretty close. The foam works better this way than
trying
to lay a "bead" of it afterwards.

FYI, This past weekend I reworked my stream a bit and tried the cheap
stuff
from the home depot rather than the black stuff hawked by the pond
industry.
Worked like a charm. Kind of ugly though. But others on this list seem
assured it will turn a less offensive color soon (If not I can always go
back to the black stuff later)

Joe


On 3/15/04 3:23 PM, "grubber" wrote:


How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are
many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using
EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I
would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock
and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over
the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have
standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water
level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I
know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.


And later on, if you develop a leak - check this place first.

The best thing to seal two pieces of liner together is the
expensive tape.
--
Bonnie
NJ

"grubber" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies.

But I'm not trying to seal liner together. I have a very large flat rock
that is mostly buried. The downslope edge hangs out a little over a 6"
drop. I want to dig back further under the rock to form a small pool
under
the drop. The stream would flow over the rock, fall into the pool below
and
then continue on its way. The pool would have a liner bottom.

My basic question is, "Is it possible to make a waterproof join between
the
pool liner and the immovable rock, and if so, how?"

If I understand correctly, you can't move the rock so lifting it and placing
say some sealing tape under it, would not work. What I would do is place a
small strip of liner over the edge of the rock where it meets the liner, and
seal that. Or squirt foam into the crevace, trim and then fill.

BV.

"grubber" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies.

But I'm not trying to seal liner together. I have a very large flat rock
that is mostly buried. The downslope edge hangs out a little over a 6"
drop. I want to dig back further under the rock to form a small pool
under
the drop. The stream would flow over the rock, fall into the pool below
and
then continue on its way. The pool would have a liner bottom.

My basic question is, "Is it possible to make a waterproof join between
the
pool liner and the immovable rock, and if so, how?"

If I understand correctly, you can't move the rock so lifting it and placing
say some sealing tape under it, would not work. What I would do is place a
small strip of liner over the edge of the rock where it meets the liner, and
seal that. Or squirt foam into the crevace, trim and then fill.

BV.

I wouldn't count on just the foam. It's supposedly something like 95%
water-blocking. My experience on a waterfall that cascades through three
pools with about 8' of drop substantiates this. In my case, the foam directs
MOST of the water over the falls, but not all of it.

As far as what WILL work, I have no experience with this, but they make
those fake-rock waterfalls waterproof using concrete (textured with a
rock-like pad), then painted with waterproofing, then painted. Maybe you
could bridge the gap that way. You'd still have a joint between concrete
and rock though.You can't jack the flat rock up, and slip liner underneath?


"grubber" wrote in message
news
How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using
EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over
the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water
level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I
know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.

I wouldn't count on just the foam. It's supposedly something like 95%
water-blocking. My experience on a waterfall that cascades through three
pools with about 8' of drop substantiates this. In my case, the foam directs
MOST of the water over the falls, but not all of it.

As far as what WILL work, I have no experience with this, but they make
those fake-rock waterfalls waterproof using concrete (textured with a
rock-like pad), then painted with waterproofing, then painted. Maybe you
could bridge the gap that way. You'd still have a joint between concrete
and rock though.You can't jack the flat rock up, and slip liner underneath?


"grubber" wrote in message
news
How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using
EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over
the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water
level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I
know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.

Will there be liner under the stone grubber?? If there is then I would say
you need to use the sealing tape to make a waterproof seam in the liner. Our
stream is completely lined with liner. We have 3 mirror stones set in with
eddy's (small pools) underneath. The foam alone will not make a completely
waterproof seal. We do have a very small amount of water that leaks
underneath the mirror stones. It does seal over the season with debris and
sludge....
Janet in "0" visibility snowy Niagara Falls! O

--

"grubber" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies.

But I'm not trying to seal liner together. I have a very large flat rock
that is mostly buried. The downslope edge hangs out a little over a 6"
drop. I want to dig back further under the rock to form a small pool
under
the drop. The stream would flow over the rock, fall into the pool below
and
then continue on its way. The pool would have a liner bottom.

My basic question is, "Is it possible to make a waterproof join between
the
pool liner and the immovable rock, and if so, how?"

"grubber" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies.

But I'm not trying to seal liner together. I have a very large flat rock
that is mostly buried. The downslope edge hangs out a little over a 6"
drop. I want to dig back further under the rock to form a small pool
under
the drop. The stream would flow over the rock, fall into the pool below
and
then continue on its way. The pool would have a liner bottom.

My basic question is, "Is it possible to make a waterproof join between
the
pool liner and the immovable rock, and if so, how?"

What's wrong with good old fashinoed Silicone and lots of it :-)

That stuff will make anything watertight and it's practically indestructible
if the right type is used.


The good thing about Silicone is that it can only be removed with brute
force, the bad thing about Silicone is tha it can only be removed with brute
force...


Just make sure that both surfaces are dry, clean and dust free and you'll be
fine using Silicone...



/Morten




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.611 / Virus Database: 391 - Release Date: 03/03/2004

Xref: kermit rec.ponds:140469

I agree. What we did when we built our stream and ponds was this. After
laying the liner out we ended up with 3 seperate pieces. We sealed them
together with the sealing tape. Then we placed the mirror stones and checked
the flow-over. We used the regular expanding foam (low expansion type). We
shot a line of foam at the backside of the mirror stone and placed the stone
in it. After it cured we trimmed it down. It does turn brownish and green.
If it's exposed to sunlight though it will break-down over time...
Janet in snowy Niagara Falls! O

--

"Bonnie" wrote in message
...
joe wrote:
Here's what you do.

Place the liner.

Spray the foam onto the liner and then place the rock over the foam. It
won't be 100%, but pretty close. The foam works better this way than
trying
to lay a "bead" of it afterwards.

FYI, This past weekend I reworked my stream a bit and tried the cheap
stuff
from the home depot rather than the black stuff hawked by the pond
industry.
Worked like a charm. Kind of ugly though. But others on this list seem
assured it will turn a less offensive color soon (If not I can always go
back to the black stuff later)

Joe


On 3/15/04 3:23 PM, "grubber" wrote:


How waterproof is that stuff? I'm putting in a stream and there are
many
wide flat limestone rocks that I would like to incorporate, while using
EPDM
liner for most of the stream. In particular, there is a rock about five
feet in diameter, about 4 inches thick that has a nice overhang. I
would
like to dig the dirt back about a foot, lay liner back under the rock
and
foam the seam where liner meets rock so I can have the stream flow over
the
rock and fall to the pool below.

Will the foam be good enough to waterproof the seam so I can have
standing
water there, or only enough to deflect splashing water with the water
level
lower than the edge of the liner? Is there a better way to do this? I
know
I can do the Gatorgard spray-in stuff, but that's on the pricey side of
things.


And later on, if you develop a leak - check this place first.

The best thing to seal two pieces of liner together is the
expensive tape.
--
Bonnie
NJ

"stricks760" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I wouldn't count on just the foam. It's supposedly something like 95%
water-blocking. My experience on a waterfall that cascades through three
pools with about 8' of drop substantiates this. In my case, the foam
directs
MOST of the water over the falls, but not all of it.

As far as what WILL work, I have no experience with this, but they make
those fake-rock waterfalls waterproof using concrete (textured with a
rock-like pad), then painted with waterproofing, then painted. Maybe you
could bridge the gap that way. You'd still have a joint between concrete
and rock though.You can't jack the flat rock up, and slip liner
underneath?


I'll probably go with the concrete. There was some white fiberous
waterproof concrete that I'd used before that would probably work. As for
jacking up the rock, the exposed part is 5 foot in diameter , although only
a few inches thick. If that's all, then I could probably jack it up, but I
have a feeling that's just the tip of the iceberg. We've got lots of rocks.
There used to be a quarry about a mile from here. When I dug my 20'x30'
pond, I could only go down 20" because it was one single rock for the entire
area. I had to raise the edge another 15" with the excavated dirt.