I love Unix and have since 1970. Linux isn't there yet (NeXT was! and was
10 years ahead of its time). DK
"Skooch" wrote in message
...
Kathleen wrote:
Sam Hopkins wrote:

Hello,

It's had over 2,000 hours of testing with live fish, plants and even
a turtle with no ill effects detected. It's important to note that
the product does not mix with water so the fish are not subjected to
the product (even though it is non-toxic).


2,000 hours. Just over 83 days. Not hardly long term from where I'm
sitting.

So this stuff just sort of floats on the surface of the water like an
oil slick?

What if you drop a fish through it from above, or a fish jumps through
it? Can it occlude their gills?

How does it affect reproduction? What does it do to eggs, insect
larvae, tadpoles?

Kathleen


;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) (~; (~;
(~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~;

Hey Sam

I bet you'll never find a better product testing, and critiquing group
than here @ rec.ponds.
If this group could test a lot of the products being made, we might not
have as many recalls
or hazardous items released upon the public.

Maybe this group should beta test Bill Gates new windows operating
system " Long horn "
perhaps it could help the public avoid getting "gored" by the bull...
ahem... I mean Bill again. ;~)

VIVA la Lixux!!!
I only use windoze when I have to.
I'm beginning to hate windoze more every day.
(Now if i can ever get SUSE 9.0 to ftp install )

Chagoi

Http://www.ourkoipond.com
(under construction)

;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) ;~) (~; (~;
(~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~; (~;

I love Unix and have since 1970. Linux isn't there yet (NeXT was! and was
10 years ahead of its time). DK

I use it every day now, most of the day. The company I work at has moved all
of it's apps to web-based apps so the platform doesn't mean much anymore for
every day stuff.

"D Kat" wrote in message ...
I love Unix and have since 1970. Linux isn't there yet (NeXT was! and was
10 years ahead of its time). DK

Have you checked the *BSD branch of UNIX yet?

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:42:09 -0500
"D Kat" wrote:

I love Unix and have since 1970. Linux isn't there yet (NeXT was! and
was 10 years ahead of its time). DK

?!? Shocking statement! Where is it that you think Linux is lacking in
regard to Unix?

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Unofficial "Wizard of Odds," A.H.P.
Original PORG "Water Wizard," R.P.
"Wize(ned) Wizard," A.P.F-P-Y.
Barely Tolerated Wizard, A.J.L & A.A.L

"D Kat" wrote in message
...
I love Unix and have since 1970. Linux isn't there yet (NeXT was! and was
10 years ahead of its time). DK
snip

Linux is not ready for prime time as a desktop OS. Clearly.

BV.

rant

Not clear to me at all. The only thing linux is missing is acceptance
and the following application/driver base. The only time I have
problems with linux, compared to windows, is finding drivers for
whatever hardware I'm adding because most vendors don't include linux
drivers. Other than that linux is just as functional and quite a bit
more stable than windows.

On the other hand, if M$ gets their way with digital rights management
they'll be able to log into your machine and erase files, legally, and
without any recourse by you. And then they can complete their monopoly
by preventing any other software not written by them to read any files
generated by any of their products. I'd much rather try Sam's stuff.

/rant

BenignVanilla wrote:
"D Kat" wrote in message
...

I love Unix and have since 1970. Linux isn't there yet (NeXT was! and was
10 years ahead of its time). DK

snip

Linux is not ready for prime time as a desktop OS. Clearly.

BV.

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:54:22 -0500
"BenignVanilla" wrote:


"D Kat" wrote in message
...
I love Unix and have since 1970. Linux isn't there yet (NeXT was!
and was 10 years ahead of its time). DK
snip

Linux is not ready for prime time as a desktop OS. Clearly.

BV.

I record music from my old LPs to CD, create and manipulate graphics,
surf and post to the 'net, use office software (word processor,
spreadsheet, presentation), scan old pics, drop in new pics from the
digicam or from my memory keyfob, keep all my appointments (alarmed)
and address book, access my desktop remotely from any modem equipped
computer, write small scripts to help control my system, run a firewall,
have all my computers networked together, Linux and Windows (controlled
by a Linux machine), have many more options for desktop style, usage,
and configuration, and about 3500 software packages that came (free)
with my OS. I also have full control over everything my system does at
all times. Oh, yes, my system will also reinvent itself, updating not
only the OS but also every single software package when updates
become available, all by itself and free of charge. I have been using
Linux alone, no Windows, for a couple of years and do not miss Windows
at all, especially the crashes, hang ups, and BSODs. Currently my
GNU/Linux box has been up and running for 23 days, 18 hours, and
40 minutes. Some have run continuously for up to three years.
Where, again, is Linux lacking?
In the user base. That's the only place.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Unofficial "Wizard of Odds," A.H.P.
Original PORG "Water Wizard," R.P.
"Wize(ned) Wizard," A.P.F-P-Y.
Barely Tolerated Wizard, A.J.L & A.A.L

Linux is not ready for prime time as a desktop OS. Clearly.

I have been using linux for 7 years now.... for over two as my only OS
at home. I love the gnome x-windows environment, all my favorite
windows apps/functionality for free. Last year, had linux hooked up in
my car running my mp3's, gps and dvd's while I was one the road. It is
much more stable that windows ever was. I had my home pc up for over
400 days without reboot... until my daughter pulled the plug. I never
get infected by stupid windows viruses. I have much beter security.
Why, even right now I am securely running a remote desktop in which I am
posting this message in. It still has the speed as if I was sitting at
my desktop. By the way, my wife could be using it at home right now
too, since you can have as many different desktops running as your
hardware will support. I will admit that when I switched to linux you
needed to know some linux, but my recent experience with RedHat & SUSE
running both Gnome and KDE make me believe that it is ready.

....my non-techy wife uses my linux desktop more than her crash-every-day
windows desktop... It is getting to the point where I have to kick her
off my computer so I can use it...

"MattR" wrote in message
...
rant

Not clear to me at all. The only thing linux is missing is acceptance
and the following application/driver base. The only time I have
problems with linux, compared to windows, is finding drivers for
whatever hardware I'm adding because most vendors don't include linux
drivers. Other than that linux is just as functional and quite a bit
more stable than windows.
snip

Exactly my point. I do agree most all Unix kernels are more robust and more
stable then any MS kernel, but that does not make them ready for prime time
on the desktop. Servers maybe, desktops no way. Many people have trouble
configuring windows machines, and you can't get much simpler then that.
Linux is still far too complex.

On the other hand, if M$ gets their way with digital rights management
they'll be able to log into your machine and erase files, legally, and
without any recourse by you. And then they can complete their monopoly
by preventing any other software not written by them to read any files
generated by any of their products. I'd much rather try Sam's stuff.
snip

That just sounds like typical anti-MS paranoia.

BV.

"Cybe R. Wizard" Cybe_R_Wizard@WizardsTower wrote in message
news:20031106051919.51d49799.Cybe_R_Wizard@Wizards Tower...
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:54:22 -0500
"BenignVanilla" wrote:


"D Kat" wrote in message
...
I love Unix and have since 1970. Linux isn't there yet (NeXT was!
and was 10 years ahead of its time). DK
snip

Linux is not ready for prime time as a desktop OS. Clearly.

BV.

I record music from my old LPs to CD, create and manipulate graphics,
surf and post to the 'net, use office software (word processor,
spreadsheet, presentation), scan old pics, drop in new pics from the
digicam or from my memory keyfob, keep all my appointments (alarmed)
and address book, access my desktop remotely from any modem equipped
computer, write small scripts to help control my system, run a firewall,
have all my computers networked together, Linux and Windows (controlled
by a Linux machine), have many more options for desktop style, usage,
and configuration, and about 3500 software packages that came (free)
with my OS. I also have full control over everything my system does at
all times. Oh, yes, my system will also reinvent itself, updating not
only the OS but also every single software package when updates
become available, all by itself and free of charge. I have been using
Linux alone, no Windows, for a couple of years and do not miss Windows
at all, especially the crashes, hang ups, and BSODs. Currently my
GNU/Linux box has been up and running for 23 days, 18 hours, and
40 minutes. Some have run continuously for up to three years.
Where, again, is Linux lacking?
In the user base. That's the only place.

1) Your nick implies you have some computer knowledge, so I am not surprised
you are able to run Linux without an issue. What about the regular Joe
Schmoe's? Can they find and configure drivers easily on a Linux box like
they can on an MS box? I doubt it.

2) If Linux is so superior why are we all not using? Because is is only
superiour in some ways, and right now those ways do not out weigh the pro's
of windows.

BV.

"Chad" wrote in message ...
Linux is not ready for prime time as a desktop OS. Clearly.

I have been using linux for 7 years now.... for over two as my only OS
at home. I love the gnome x-windows environment, all my favorite
windows apps/functionality for free. Last year, had linux hooked up in
my car running my mp3's, gps and dvd's while I was one the road. It is
much more stable that windows ever was. I had my home pc up for over
400 days without reboot... until my daughter pulled the plug. I never
get infected by stupid windows viruses. I have much beter security.
Why, even right now I am securely running a remote desktop in which I am
posting this message in. It still has the speed as if I was sitting at
my desktop. By the way, my wife could be using it at home right now
too, since you can have as many different desktops running as your
hardware will support. I will admit that when I switched to linux you
needed to know some linux, but my recent experience with RedHat & SUSE
running both Gnome and KDE make me believe that it is ready.

...my non-techy wife uses my linux desktop more than her crash-every-day
windows desktop... It is getting to the point where I have to kick her
off my computer so I can use it...

Severel people have responded to my post, and all have talked about how
Linux is free and much more stable. I do not argue against that at all. I am
an IT professional. I understand the stability of the unix kernels. I get
it. My point is simply that the MS OS with bugs and all is easier for the
common (wo)man to manage in a day to day environment.

As for security and MS virus', I speculate that if Linux was on 90% of the
workstations in the world, we'd be reading about more Linux virus'. I agree
that MS has been lax in it's security and vulnerability protection, but
surely the number of machines running the OS make it a good statistical
target. Why attack a small number of computer savvy people if I can attack a
larger group not so savvy users?

BV.

Yes it is bad that you might have to read a little and learn something to learn
about
using Linux. I use it for about 90 percent of my work now including my
electronics
design and schematic programs at work and had never seen it until I went to
work
for the company I work for now 3 years ago. I did have to spend some time
reading
and learning but hey made me a little smarter. The latest releases are almost
self
installing almost as easy as windows and stability is fantastic. I also use
linux based
IPCop firewall for both the Knology connection at work and the dial up at home
and
with dial on demand I have three systems networked into it so all machines can
be
online at the same time. The best way is to set up an old computer and get a
copy
of RedHat and start playing with it you might surprise yourself and like it.
Course
still haven't figured out what this has to do with ponding!

Bob


BenignVanilla wrote:

"Chad" wrote in message ...
Linux is not ready for prime time as a desktop OS. Clearly.

I have been using linux for 7 years now.... for over two as my only OS
at home. I love the gnome x-windows environment, all my favorite
windows apps/functionality for free. Last year, had linux hooked up in
my car running my mp3's, gps and dvd's while I was one the road. It is
much more stable that windows ever was. I had my home pc up for over
400 days without reboot... until my daughter pulled the plug. I never
get infected by stupid windows viruses. I have much beter security.
Why, even right now I am securely running a remote desktop in which I am
posting this message in. It still has the speed as if I was sitting at
my desktop. By the way, my wife could be using it at home right now
too, since you can have as many different desktops running as your
hardware will support. I will admit that when I switched to linux you
needed to know some linux, but my recent experience with RedHat & SUSE
running both Gnome and KDE make me believe that it is ready.

...my non-techy wife uses my linux desktop more than her crash-every-day
windows desktop... It is getting to the point where I have to kick her
off my computer so I can use it...

Severel people have responded to my post, and all have talked about how
Linux is free and much more stable. I do not argue against that at all. I am
an IT professional. I understand the stability of the unix kernels. I get
it. My point is simply that the MS OS with bugs and all is easier for the
common (wo)man to manage in a day to day environment.

As for security and MS virus', I speculate that if Linux was on 90% of the
workstations in the world, we'd be reading about more Linux virus'. I agree
that MS has been lax in it's security and vulnerability protection, but
surely the number of machines running the OS make it a good statistical
target. Why attack a small number of computer savvy people if I can attack a
larger group not so savvy users?

BV.

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:54:39 -0500
"BenignVanilla" wrote:

As for security and MS virus', I speculate that if Linux was on 90% of
the workstations in the world, we'd be reading about more Linux
virus'. I agree that MS has been lax in it's security and
vulnerability protection, but surely the number of machines running
the OS make it a good statistical target. Why attack a small number of
computer savvy people if I can attack a larger group not so savvy
users?

BV.

Because one would have to logged in as root (/) which is the number one
no-no in the Linux world, just as in the Unix world. Otherwise a
cracker would need your root password which is fairly well protected.
As an IT professional I'm surprised you even asked. Unless, of course,
your IT career is mostly using Microsoft products? Not that this is a
bad thing. A whole lot of the internet would disappear if Microsoft
products suddenly did likewise.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Unofficial "Wizard of Odds," A.H.P.
Original PORG "Water Wizard," R.P.
"Wize(ned) Wizard," A.P.F-P-Y.
Barely Tolerated Wizard, A.J.L & A.A.L

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:51:17 -0500
"BenignVanilla" wrote:

Where, again, is Linux lacking?
In the user base. That's the only place.

1) Your nick implies you have some computer knowledge, so I am not
surprised you are able to run Linux without an issue. What about the
regular Joe Schmoe's? Can they find and configure drivers easily on a
Linux box like they can on an MS box? I doubt it.

Therein lies the money maker for Linux-knowledgeable people. A small
shop selling Linux-compatible hardware, installing and setting up a
system with users already installed, permissions on users set to
disallow any messing with the system. It would be simplicity itself to
update/install software remotely on machines from your shop, lessons
could be given...
OTOH, my Libranet Linux distro (a variety of Debian for you propeller
heads) was easy to install, easy to use, easy to update or install new
software, has up to date hardware detection, will automatically set up a
dual-boot system if there is another OS already on the hard drive(s),
and has the look and feel of Windows to a large extent using the Ice
window manager.

2) If Linux is so superior why are we all not using? Because is is
only superiour in some ways, and right now those ways do not out weigh
the pro's of windows.

BV.

Linux is not in popular use /in the US/ because Microsoft long had
exclusive use contracts with major manufacturers of computers, thereby
getting PC buyers used only to the Windows way. It is easier to do
nothing than to make an effort to load and learn a new system when
you already /have/ learned one. Today, after the recent lawsuit,
Microsoft is no longer allowed to hold these exclusive contracts but
most manufacturers still will not anger the giant by even releasing
hardware specs so Linux folks can write their own drivers, much less
write the drivers, themselves.

That said, it is possible to use a wide variety of Windows-only hardware
under Linux, just as it is possible to use lots of Windows-only software
because Linux coders aren't afraid to acknowledge the existence of other
OSs.

OTOH, there /is/ a steep learning curve, not because Linux is so hard,
but because it is not the same as Windows.
On the gripping hand, those who learn Linux first learn just as fast as
Windows users and will not even consider switching to such inferior
OSs as any of the Microsoft offerings, each new iteration of which has
its own learning curve.

BTW, have I said that I'm rebuilding my backyard pond? It's almost done
and will be ready for plants soon. I will be waiting for spring to put
in any fish, though.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Unofficial "Wizard of Odds," A.H.P.
Original PORG "Water Wizard," R.P.
"Wize(ned) Wizard," A.P.F-P-Y.
Barely Tolerated Wizard, A.J.L & A.A.L

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:49:03 -0500
"BenignVanilla" wrote:

On the other hand, if M$ gets their way with digital rights
management they'll be able to log into your machine and erase files,
legally, and without any recourse by you. And then they can complete
their monopoly by preventing any other software not written by them
to read any files generated by any of their products. I'd much
rather try Sam's stuff.
snip

That just sounds like typical anti-MS paranoia.

BV.

Not at all, read up on the digital rights management system. It's
really scary if you imagine the uses to which it can be put.
Have you read your Microsoft EULA?

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Unofficial "Wizard of Odds," A.H.P.
Original PORG "Water Wizard," R.P.
"Wize(ned) Wizard," A.P.F-P-Y.
Barely Tolerated Wizard, A.J.L & A.A.L