I just added about 5 Koi in my garden pond Saturday, and I notice that
one of them seems to be swimming close to the surface, almost with his
head out of the water. A smaller gold fish also follows it around and
seems to be nibbling on the Koi like it is hungry. Is this something I
should be concerned about? I have a few dozen goldfish, guppies,
mosqutio fish, etc. I also seem to be losing a couple of the smaller
fish every day or so.

Here is the response you may get:

How big is your pond?
Do you have filtration, etc
Did you test your water parameters!
What is the size of your new Koi?
Did you quarantine them before putting them in your pond?
Few dozens? How few is few?
Where are you located?
......
......
.......
........
Basically you need to provide more info before others can really help you.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"itten" wrote in message
...
I just added about 5 Koi in my garden pond Saturday, and I notice that
one of them seems to be swimming close to the surface, almost with his
head out of the water. A smaller gold fish also follows it around and
seems to be nibbling on the Koi like it is hungry. Is this something I
should be concerned about? I have a few dozen goldfish, guppies,
mosqutio fish, etc. I also seem to be losing a couple of the smaller
fish every day or so.

itten wrote:
I just added about 5 Koi in my garden pond Saturday, and I notice that
one of them seems to be swimming close to the surface, almost with his
head out of the water. A smaller gold fish also follows it around and
seems to be nibbling on the Koi like it is hungry. Is this something I
should be concerned about? I have a few dozen goldfish, guppies,
mosqutio fish, etc. I also seem to be losing a couple of the smaller
fish every day or so.

Where the fish healthy? Did you quarantine them? Sounds
like you've got a problem if you're losing fish regularly.

--
Bonnie
NJ
http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/

And I will add, do you have a fountain or waterfall
as swimming at the surface with head almost out of the water sounds like a fish
starved for oxygen.

You may have too many fish in there among other problems.

let us know, we'll get you on the right track ;-)


k30a

I have 5 Koi and all the others seem to be doing well. They range from
7" max down to about 3". I bought them from a water garden business
that seems to take an interest in their fish, so I'm sure they were
healthy. I have never tested the water.
I have about 20 small goldfish, 10 guppies and mosquito fish.
My pond is filtered with a fountain. It is 16" deep, 7 feet long and
4'wide and I have another 2 foot square section. I added a chemical to
treat the tap water before I put the fish in.

In article ,
ESPMER (K30a) wrote:

And I will add, do you have a fountain or waterfall
as swimming at the surface with head almost out of the water sounds like a
fish
starved for oxygen.

You may have too many fish in there among other problems.

let us know, we'll get you on the right track ;-)


k30a

I live in Charleston, South Carolina. I had the feeder fish in the pond
for about a week before I added the Koi. I did not quarantine them. I
just added them when I bought them.



In article , "Just Me \"Koi\""
wrote:

Here is the response you may get:

How big is your pond?
Do you have filtration, etc
Did you test your water parameters!
What is the size of your new Koi?
Did you quarantine them before putting them in your pond?
Few dozens? How few is few?
Where are you located?
.....
.....
......
.......
Basically you need to provide more info before others can really help you.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"itten" wrote in message
...
I just added about 5 Koi in my garden pond Saturday, and I notice that
one of them seems to be swimming close to the surface, almost with his
head out of the water. A smaller gold fish also follows it around and
seems to be nibbling on the Koi like it is hungry. Is this something I
should be concerned about? I have a few dozen goldfish, guppies,
mosqutio fish, etc. I also seem to be losing a couple of the smaller
fish every day or so.

You pond sounds too small for koi.
Current recommendations are starting with
1,000 gallons and then adding 100 gallons per
koi. So your pond should be 1500 gallons without
any fish in it at all. Add 20 gallons per 20 goldfish and that is another 400
gallons.
You should take the fish back to the dealer.

A fountain isn't going to do the best job filtering a pond with koi, they have
higher standards for their water quality.

It is the fault of many store owners who sell koi in that they don't inform you
what the fish really need. I've seen pet stores sell koi for aquariums!
ak!

Did you say other fish had been dying? You need to test the water. If you see
any trace of ammonia that means your fountain is not working as a filter.

good luck!


k30a

Lost that Koi.
I found that Koi dead this morning.
How do I go about testing my water for ammonia?
My water is being filtered because I have a 12" x 12" filter attached
to my pump.




In article ,
ESPMER (K30a) wrote:

You pond sounds too small for koi.
Current recommendations are starting with
1,000 gallons and then adding 100 gallons per
koi. So your pond should be 1500 gallons without
any fish in it at all. Add 20 gallons per 20 goldfish and that is another 400
gallons.
You should take the fish back to the dealer.

A fountain isn't going to do the best job filtering a pond with koi, they have
higher standards for their water quality.

It is the fault of many store owners who sell koi in that they don't inform
you
what the fish really need. I've seen pet stores sell koi for aquariums!
ak!

Did you say other fish had been dying? You need to test the water. If you see
any trace of ammonia that means your fountain is not working as a filter.

good luck!


k30a

What you have is not a filter. It is a pre-screen to keep junk out of your
pump.

I don't think you have a pond ready for Koi yet. Goldfish yes, Koi maybe
not.

If you want to keep your koi, then you need to build a filter for them, and
also get some Zeolite. And cut back on how much you are feeding them. And
read a lot of the post here for information you definitely need. Start with
testing the water parameters definitely!

Here are couple of links that may help you in building a DIY filter.

Filters:
Blondie Type-
http://www.blondieswebdesigns.com/wa...biofilter.html
Skippy Type - http://www.skippysstuff.com/biofiltr.htm

Both sites will also give you a ton more info. Your pond is probably more
appropriate with a Skippy type filter.


Happy ponding itten.
--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"itten" wrote in message
...
Lost that Koi.
I found that Koi dead this morning.
How do I go about testing my water for ammonia?
My water is being filtered because I have a 12" x 12" filter attached
to my pump.

itten wrote How do I go about testing my water for ammonia?

Pet stores that sell fish should have test kits for sale. Usually with a test
tube that you put pond water in and add a few drops of testing liquid in.
You then compare the color of what shows up in the test tube to a chart.
With ponds any trace of ammonia is bad.

Goldfish can survive in ponds where koi can not.
Koi are usually the first fish to go when water conditions are not up to par.

You can also test for a number of other things, like
Ph, nitrites and/or nitrates.
Many times test kits are sold in a group.

Most pond problems are the result of overstocking the pond. Then overfeeding
those fish.


k30a

I don't feed my fish as recommended by my pond supply dealer. They eat
off the aquatic plants.
I just tested my water and I got a water hardness indication that was
high. What do I need to soften the water?




In article ,
ESPMER (K30a) wrote:

itten wrote How do I go about testing my water for ammonia?

Pet stores that sell fish should have test kits for sale. Usually with a test
tube that you put pond water in and add a few drops of testing liquid in.
You then compare the color of what shows up in the test tube to a chart.
With ponds any trace of ammonia is bad.

Goldfish can survive in ponds where koi can not.
Koi are usually the first fish to go when water conditions are not up to par.

You can also test for a number of other things, like
Ph, nitrites and/or nitrates.
Many times test kits are sold in a group.

Most pond problems are the result of overstocking the pond. Then overfeeding
those fish.


k30a

On Fri, 16 May 2003 14:04:22 -0400, itten wrote:

I don't feed my fish as recommended by my pond supply dealer. They eat
off the aquatic plants.
I just tested my water and I got a water hardness indication that was
high. What do I need to soften the water?

Sick Fish & Sick Pond form:

Please fill out the form below and repost to rec.ponds. Answer what you
can, leave the others blank that you can't, but don't delete the questions:

Pond Size in Gallons? (litres*.26=US Gallons):

Water Source (Well, Irrigation, City?)
If City how is water treated?: =

Time in Operation?
(How old is the pond/water?):

Liner type? (EPDM,PVC,RUBBER,Cement/Concrete etc):

Fish Population?
Type? Size? QTY, Time in Pond:

Food? Type and Frequency of feedings.:

Pump Type, IN/OUT of pond, GPH etc
(Describe your filtration system as well as possible):

Prefilter media type? Last cleaned?:

Filter is BIO or Mechanical? Last cleaned? How?:

Carbon added? How much? When last changed?:

Aeration? Waterfalls? Bubblers?
Venturies?:

Water Temp?

PH?:

Ammonia (ppm or mg/l):

Nitrite (ppm or mg/l):

Nitrate (ppm or mg/l):

Water Color, cloudiness, odor?:

Water changes? (% of pond volume and how often):

Additives used (water conditioners etc):

Tests done by self or another?:

Weather (what's it been like lately?):

Medications used?:

What Zone or Country of residence?:

~ jan
See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

In article , ~ jan
wrote:

On Fri, 16 May 2003 14:04:22 -0400, itten wrote:

I don't feed my fish as recommended by my pond supply dealer. They eat
off the aquatic plants.
I just tested my water and I got a water hardness indication that was
high. What do I need to soften the water?

Sick Fish & Sick Pond form:

Please fill out the form below and repost to rec.ponds. Answer what you
can, leave the others blank that you can't, but don't delete the questions:

Pond Size in Gallons? (litres*.26=US Gallons):

I haven't figured that out yet. My pond is seven feet long by four feet wide
by sixteen inches deep. It has another section two feet square and
also sixteen inches deep. I don't know how many gallons I have.

Water Source (Well, Irrigation, City?)
If City how is water treated?

City water and I treated it with Ponc Clear and something else that was
supposed to be used in fresh tap water.

Time in Operation?
(How old is the pond/water?):

I've had my pond up and running for about three weeks now.


Liner type? (EPDM,PVC,RUBBER,Cement/Concrete etc):

I don't know the type. It looked like black rubber that I got from my
pond supply.


Fish Population?
Type? Size? QTY, Time in Pond:

5 Koi, 10 guppies, 20 small feeder goldfish, 10 mosquito fish. The Koi range from about 7" down to about 4". The Koi have been in a week tomorrow.

Food? Type and Frequency of feedings.:
I don't feed the fish. There are plenty of aquatic plants in my pond.


Pump Type, IN/OUT of pond, GPH etc
(Describe your filtration system as well as possible):

Pondmaster Magnetic Drive Utility Pump in the pond. 1800 gallons per hour.
I use a Bio-Mech 1200 Submerged Filtration System with a filter size of
15 x 15 x 8".


Prefilter media type? Last cleaned?:
Foam filter. I clean it weekly.

Filter is BIO or Mechanical? Last cleaned? How?:

Carbon added? How much? When last changed?:

Aeration? Waterfalls? Bubblers?

Fountain and spitter.

Venturies?:

Water Temp?

PH?: Tested acceptable per my test strip today.

Ammonia (ppm or mg/l): Not tested for this.

Nitrite (ppm or mg/l): Safe level

Nitrate (ppm or mg/l): Caution indication on my test strip.

Water Color, cloudiness, odor?:
No odor. It is not clear but not real cloudy either.

Water changes? (% of pond volume and how often):
Haven't changed the water yet.


Additives used (water conditioners etc):

Tests done by self or another?:

Did testing myself with my test kit today.

Weather (what's it been like lately?):
Rain today, otherwise fair in the 80's.

Medications used?:
No medications added to my pond.

What Zone or Country of residence?:
Charleston, South Carolina.

~ jan
See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

On Fri, 16 May itten replied to sick fish form:

Pond Size in Gallons? (litres*.26=US Gallons):

I haven't figured that out yet. My pond is seven feet long by four feet wide
by sixteen inches deep. It has another section two feet square and
also sixteen inches deep. I don't know how many gallons I have.

I come up with a rough estimate of 240 gallons.

Summarizing: Great, you are dechlorinating the tap water. Pond is 3 weeks
old, liner is EPDM or PVC most likely,

5 Koi, 10 guppies, 20 small feeder goldfish, 10 mosquito fish. The Koi range from about 7" down to about 4".

OMG!!!! Oops, sorry.

The Koi have been in a week tomorrow.

I don't feed the fish. There are plenty of aquatic plants in my pond.

At this point, that's a good thing, if you were feeding them, more would
have died from water pollution.

Pondmaster Magnetic Drive Utility Pump in the pond. 1800 gallons per hour.
I use a Bio-Mech 1200 Submerged Filtration System with a filter size of
15 x 15 x 8".

That's great for the size of pond, unfortunately not good enough for that
many residents.

Foam filter. I clean it weekly.

Aeration?

Fountain and spitter.

Water Temp?

Get a thermometer.

PH?: Tested acceptable per my test strip today.

If your test kit doesn't give you a number rating, you need a better kit.
If it does, we need the numbers. If one took a child to the doctor and Doc
asked what has said child's temperature been running, you wouldn't say
"acceptable" you'd give Doc the numbers and let Doc decide if it is
acceptable. ;o)

Ammonia (ppm or mg/l): Not tested for this.

This is *Thee No. 1 most important test.* An your pH number makes a
difference on how toxic the ammonia is to the fish and the eventual
treatment protocol.

Nitrite (ppm or mg/l): Safe level

Again, we'll decide that we know the numbers. The only safe level is Zero,
but we can work around a low level by using salt.

Nitrate (ppm or mg/l): Caution indication on my test strip.

Water Color, cloudiness, odor?:
No odor. It is not clear but not real cloudy either.

Water changes? (% of pond volume and how often):
Haven't changed the water yet.

Well we're gonna start here. I'd LOVE to say "make a water change of 20%
right now!" But without knowing your pH I don't dare. I'm quite sure your
ammonia reading is up there, but if your pH is 7.0 or less and your tap
water is 7.5 and up, we could make a bad situation worst. Therefore I
suggest you get a product called Amquel, treat the entire pond with that
after which do a water change of 20%, using the Amquel to treat the tap
water. Why?

Treating the entire pond with Amquel will detox the ammonia right off, the
water change w/Amquel after, will rid the pond of some of the nitrates &
nitrites.

Additives used (water conditioners etc):
Tests done by self or another?:

Did testing myself with my test kit today.

Weather (what's it been like lately?):
Rain today, otherwise fair in the 80's.

Charleston, South Carolina.

Additional information: For a new pond and a new pond person you overloaded
your pond with residents. If the LFS knew what was going on they should be
severely scolded, imo. They think we're fish keepers, when really we are
water quality keepers, the fish just add interest. ;o)

What is important to you, koi or goldfish? Get rid of the guppies and
mosquito fish. I'd let you keep the koi if you removed the goldfish and
started digging a new pond or put a BIG out-of-the-pond filter on the
current pond. ;o)

Personally, if you want to stay with the smaller pond for now. I'd take
back all the fish and trade them in for 2-3 pretty shubunkins (calico
single tailed goldfish) or 2-3 fantails, they will have babies.

Filtration, your filter isn't getting a chance to mature if you are
cleaning it once a week. *Looks like I need to change my form a tad and ask
what kind of water (straight from the tap or chlorine-free) is being used
to clean the filter?*

If you were to drop your fish numbers & type to what I suggest I bet you
might find that your filter cleaning drops to once-a-month, if that. Now
wouldn't that be more fun? Who needs an extra weekly chore? I know I don't,
I just cleaned my pre-filter today, first time since October. I won't clean
my bio-filter till late fall shut-down. ;o) ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website