Houston, we have a problem......Y'all gonna have to modify the RFD to
allow potential posters the right to specify what mmoderator will
infact read their posts for approval. Seems some have troupble with
who may or may not read their posts now. If CArol can get special
priveledges on who gets to read her posts I also request that only
certain ones read and approve mine and no one but them.........

Just how far is this moderation requirement gonna need tobe refined
just to suit the problems created by one............I think it would
have been a whole lot quicker and really more efective if a consensus
of foks banded together and went after a certain person ISP and got
rif of the cancer totally.........Then all of usenet would be a better
place moderated or not.


I trust specialized moderator treatment will not put a delay in the
reading and posting of posts will it? I sure hate to miss any posts
that one has as its sure been a very enlightening experieince wth that
persons methods....



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:55:17 -0600, Tristan
wrote:

Houston, we have a problem......Y'all gonna have to modify the RFD to
allow potential posters the right to specify what mmoderator will
infact read their posts for approval. Seems some have troupble with
who may or may not read their posts now. If CArol can get special
priveledges on who gets to read her posts I also request that only
certain ones read and approve mine and no one but them.........

Just how far is this moderation requirement gonna need tobe refined
just to suit the problems created by one............I think it would
have been a whole lot quicker and really more efective if a consensus
of foks banded together and went after a certain person ISP and got
rif of the cancer totally.........Then all of usenet would be a better
place moderated or not.


I trust specialized moderator treatment will not put a delay in the
reading and posting of posts will it? I sure hate to miss any posts
that one has as its sure been a very enlightening experieince wth that
persons methods....

We aren't set up to do anything at all like that right now. About
the only thing like that we have addressed is a common feeling that
moderators would not moderate their own posts. Even that requires
that a moderator recognize their own post and pass on it, sort of an
"honor system." It is pretty much chance as to what moderator reads
what post. It's doable in the software, but isn't written yet. For
now, it seems that the most effective thing is to raise objections to
the proposed moderator(s) about whether or not they should even be
moderators.
--
Galen Hekhuis
We'll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head

The moderators are not the problem, its assumptions made about the
mods and subtle changes certainposts may make by posters. Mods are
fine.........no need to change anything there...IMHO

I just know with the amount a few posters post and then wanting to be
choosey on who actually pases or denies their posts its gonna put a
lot of work onthat one mod, and leave other mods open for attacks with
claims to being biased ect from certain disgruntled posters.......Its
pretty bad that mods are getting trashed and opinions formed by one
whos posts get spread around like a viral infection long before they
get to do real moderator work.........That certianly can not be good
for a new group ,moderated or not. If thatone person cannot get rid of
certain mods its not going to take much to see that thye will do their
best to disupt the group with numerous posts......Somehow I think
actually banning is not a bad idea......and before its all over I bet
others are gonna see it that way too.



On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:29:23 -0500, Galen Hekhuis
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:55:17 -0600, Tristan
wrote:

Houston, we have a problem......Y'all gonna have to modify the RFD to
allow potential posters the right to specify what mmoderator will
infact read their posts for approval. Seems some have troupble with
who may or may not read their posts now. If CArol can get special
priveledges on who gets to read her posts I also request that only
certain ones read and approve mine and no one but them.........

Just how far is this moderation requirement gonna need tobe refined
just to suit the problems created by one............I think it would
have been a whole lot quicker and really more efective if a consensus
of foks banded together and went after a certain person ISP and got
rif of the cancer totally.........Then all of usenet would be a better
place moderated or not.


I trust specialized moderator treatment will not put a delay in the
reading and posting of posts will it? I sure hate to miss any posts
that one has as its sure been a very enlightening experieince wth that
persons methods....

We aren't set up to do anything at all like that right now. About
the only thing like that we have addressed is a common feeling that
moderators would not moderate their own posts. Even that requires
that a moderator recognize their own post and pass on it, sort of an
"honor system." It is pretty much chance as to what moderator reads
what post. It's doable in the software, but isn't written yet. For
now, it seems that the most effective thing is to raise objections to
the proposed moderator(s) about whether or not they should even be
moderators.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

As it isn't entirely clear here what prompted this post I have cut and
pasted it from the original which can be found under the thread "Sick
koi and need advice (with pics)"

"Since you have such a negative attitude where I'm concerned Jan, I
would rather you don't even look at anything I post on a m.r.p. Let
someone else handle my messages.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*"

I strongly believe that noone can "pick" who moderates their posts as
this in fact casts aspersions on the integrity of the moderation team as
a whole......I believe we all trust one another sufficiently and have
built in safeguards to prevent any accusations being made as to the
neutrality of one or more of the team....

Gill

"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:55:17 -0600, Tristan
wrote:

Houston, we have a problem......Y'all gonna have to modify the RFD to
allow potential posters the right to specify what mmoderator will
infact read their posts for approval. Seems some have troupble with
who may or may not read their posts now. If CArol can get special
priveledges on who gets to read her posts I also request that only
certain ones read and approve mine and no one but them.........

Just how far is this moderation requirement gonna need tobe refined
just to suit the problems created by one............I think it would
have been a whole lot quicker and really more efective if a consensus
of foks banded together and went after a certain person ISP and got
rif of the cancer totally.........Then all of usenet would be a better
place moderated or not.


I trust specialized moderator treatment will not put a delay in the
reading and posting of posts will it? I sure hate to miss any posts
that one has as its sure been a very enlightening experieince wth that
persons methods....
----------
We aren't set up to do anything at all like that right now. About
the only thing like that we have addressed is a common feeling that
moderators would not moderate their own posts. Even that requires
that a moderator recognize their own post and pass on it, sort of an
"honor system." It is pretty much chance as to what moderator reads
what post.

This may cause a problem Galen. There are a lot of hurt feelings and anger
where two of these proposed moderators are concerned. Human nature being
what it is they may not be able to remain neutral when "judging" someone's
messages they're angry at for whatever reason. That's why I feel we should
really try and find neutral moderators and those who can keep their cool
when disagreements come up.

It's doable in the software, but isn't written yet. For
now, it seems that the most effective thing is to raise objections to
the proposed moderator(s) about whether or not they should even be
moderators.

Human nature again. I doubt they'd agree and admit their animosity for
certain posters, and offer to step back so a neutral person can take their
place. Because if favoritism or censorship starts even a moderated group
would be doomed. I've seen that happen on Forums and posting boards over the
years. All but one are now gone from the scene.

--
Galen Hekhuis
We'll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:39:54 -0600, Tristan
wrote:


The moderators are not the problem, its assumptions made about the
mods and subtle changes certainposts may make by posters. Mods are
fine.........no need to change anything there...IMHO

I just know with the amount a few posters post and then wanting to be
choosey on who actually pases or denies their posts its gonna put a
lot of work onthat one mod, and leave other mods open for attacks with
claims to being biased ect from certain disgruntled posters.......Its
pretty bad that mods are getting trashed and opinions formed by one
whos posts get spread around like a viral infection long before they
get to do real moderator work.........That certianly can not be good
for a new group ,moderated or not. If thatone person cannot get rid of
certain mods its not going to take much to see that thye will do their
best to disupt the group with numerous posts......Somehow I think
actually banning is not a bad idea......and before its all over I bet
others are gonna see it that way too.

It may become a problem, I can see lots of potentials. People might
try to game the timezones to avoid a particular moderator. Like
you say, if requests are allowed some moderators might squawk at being
overburdened or virtually ignored. Perhaps some form of banning may
be necessary, but I hope not. Many things are trivial to change, I've
been able to change my IP at will over the past few weeks. There just
isn't much to work with in header information, and I think more and
more folks will find it easier and easier to screw with header
information as time goes on. It's pretty hard to disguise your text
and still get a message across.

Oh, I trust those involved, however there is one or two folks around
who would think nnothing of trashing a persons integrity if their
posts were kicked back.....and we allkknow that. Then the request to
have certain mods read certain posters posts for fear they will be
refused........it does not dfo the new grop any good to have any such
policy to single out what mods read what posters posts......HOpefull
there is not a wayt to show who approved or dissaproved a
post.........

I just hate to see any mod get trashed over the likes of one or two
individuals with a heap of issues, mostly personal baggage they seem
to keep hanging on to, but always looking to create turmoil when they
do not get their way. or when dissagreed with. No sense beating
around the bush,m the only one concerned is CArol........so is the mod
team gonna bow down to her and kiss her sorry ass for fear of getting
trashed in unmmoderated groups? I can see it now, carol is gonna use
thr unmoderated rec.ponds group as a place to air dirty laundry and
bitch about how fair she is being treated if a posts of hers gets
fired back at her.....Trust me its coming! Odds are she will do to
others just like she did to jan with all those obscene posts she made
after getting brow beat this past weekend.......Yea, she won't be
able to do it on the rec ponds moderataed forum, but yu can be sure
she will make it readily viewable in all kinds of other
forums......when she throws a tantrum after getting dissagreed
with.Her past posting and reply history is proof positive to this.
It may not really be a problem of rpm, what a poster does ouotside of
the forum, but its sure not gonna reap any good feelings among groups
that will get trolled in retalliation is it?

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:49:12 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

As it isn't entirely clear here what prompted this post I have cut and
pasted it from the original which can be found under the thread "Sick
koi and need advice (with pics)"

"Since you have such a negative attitude where I'm concerned Jan, I
would rather you don't even look at anything I post on a m.r.p. Let
someone else handle my messages.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

"Tristan" wrote in message
...
Just how far is this moderation requirement gonna need tobe refined
just to suit the problems created by one............

And the one who has viciously attacked other posters here and posted all the
porn and smut running everyone off is YOU Roy Hauer. The proof is all
archived. You now flood the group with off-topic HATE messages 7 days a
week.

I think it would
have been a whole lot quicker and really more efective if a consensus
of foks banded together and went after a certain person ISP and got
rif of the cancer totally.........Then all of usenet would be a better
place moderated or not.

You've already tried that an they found no abuse on my part. Even Bellsouth
and Hughes told you the messages you accuse/accused me of posting are not
from my account. Earthlink on the other hand was shocked when I personally
sent the security dept. 12 of your messages including the one where you play
the pimp trying to pimp me off........

There is no abuse coming from our accounts and you admitted that on the reef
group.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
As it isn't entirely clear here what prompted this post I have cut and
pasted it from the original which can be found under the thread "Sick koi
and need advice (with pics)"

"Since you have such a negative attitude where I'm concerned Jan, I would
rather you don't even look at anything I post on a m.r.p. Let someone
else handle my messages.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*"

I strongly believe that noone can "pick" who moderates their posts as this
in fact casts aspersions on the integrity of the moderation team as a
whole......I believe we all trust one another sufficiently and have built
in safeguards to prevent any accusations being made as to the neutrality
of one or more of the team....

Gill
==============================
On the team as a whole? I don't think so. :-) No two people think alike
or feel the same about the same issues. Before MRP is even set up I'm
already being "questioned" about things this proposed moderator never
questioned me about before. Why is that? Is that what those who disagree
with this proposed moderator are going to have to face in a moderated group?
Where does "questioning" someone, second guessing them, accusing them etc
end and harassment and censorship begin?

Not one thing was said to another poster who advised someone to illegally
shoot and kill our protected herons. Not even a suggestion he mention it's
illegal amd immoral to do that in the USA. But my post about the farm pond
had them in hysterics!!!!!!!! :-O Why was that Gill?
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Tristan" wrote in message
...

Oh, I trust those involved, however there is one or two folks around
who would think nnothing of trashing a persons integrity if their
posts were kicked back.....
==============
Like you trashed Gills, Derek's, Dicks, Eds, Gail's mine and about 20 other
people's integrity with personal attacks because you couldn't get your way?
You even attacked my husband's integrity, a total stranger to you who never
once posted or read any of these fish or pond groups.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:02:58 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

This may cause a problem Galen. There are a lot of hurt feelings and anger
where two of these proposed moderators are concerned. Human nature being
what it is they may not be able to remain neutral when "judging" someone's
messages they're angry at for whatever reason. That's why I feel we should
really try and find neutral moderators and those who can keep their cool
when disagreements come up.

I think all the moderators realize it could become a problem, and
we've tried to combat this. Hopefully it will be accomplished by
having fairly clear criteria spelled out in the charter and by judging
by content, and not header information (author). But if you can scare
up any willing would-be moderators, especially in differing timezones,
go for it.

Human nature again. I doubt they'd agree and admit their animosity for
certain posters, and offer to step back so a neutral person can take their
place. Because if favoritism or censorship starts even a moderated group
would be doomed. I've seen that happen on Forums and posting boards over the
years. All but one are now gone from the scene.

We'll try to keep from doing that.

"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
...
brevity snip

It may become a problem, I can see lots of potentials. People might
try to game the timezones to avoid a particular moderator. Like
you say, if requests are allowed some moderators might squawk at being
overburdened or virtually ignored. Perhaps some form of banning may
be necessary, but I hope not.

Banning those who constantly post profanity/smutty posts and degrading
personal attacks on others should be done. Those kinds of posts are a turn
off to any moderator and they shouldn't have to be exposed to them. They
cause bad vibes and negativity.

Many things are trivial to change, I've
been able to change my IP at will over the past few weeks. There just
isn't much to work with in header information, and I think more and
more folks will find it easier and easier to screw with header
information as time goes on. It's pretty hard to disguise your text
and still get a message across.

THERE YOU GO! That's just what I told Gill and Jan and a few people from
the aquarium groups when they wanted me to try and come back with a new nym
and persona to stop the troll attacks. It seems others here were ether
forced off the group or had to resort to this trickery because of the SAME
person/troll personally attacking them. You cannot disguise yourself
forever. The mods on the other hand are going to have to learn how to spot
forged headers. As Roy recently found out, the messages I've been accused
of sending are not from my account.

You are dealing with shrewd, experienced, obsessed "mission" trolls here as
Jayne called them Galen, and they have no intention of letting this go
because of a moderated group.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Since when are morales so important an issue for yuu of all people
carol?
You lack even the slightest remote resemblence or morale fiber. And
for the final time, there are those that can and do harvest herons
both SBH and GBH legally and those that can ot. I fit in the former,
thank you! Y'a know alligators are also protected yet I am legal to
harvest a certain amount of gators as well......ironic huh. Your just
an old blow hard who is gonna dissagree with anything that is said to
her......... All I can say is, Are yu totally 100% sure that surgeon
removed your opvaries, and not your brain? Better go get a second
opinion, you may just possess them things.......as we all know your
lacking in the brain department.


On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:21:36 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
As it isn't entirely clear here what prompted this post I have cut and
pasted it from the original which can be found under the thread "Sick koi
and need advice (with pics)"

"Since you have such a negative attitude where I'm concerned Jan, I would
rather you don't even look at anything I post on a m.r.p. Let someone
else handle my messages.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*"

I strongly believe that noone can "pick" who moderates their posts as this
in fact casts aspersions on the integrity of the moderation team as a
whole......I believe we all trust one another sufficiently and have built
in safeguards to prevent any accusations being made as to the neutrality
of one or more of the team....

Gill
==============================
On the team as a whole? I don't think so. :-) No two people think alike
or feel the same about the same issues. Before MRP is even set up I'm
already being "questioned" about things this proposed moderator never
questioned me about before. Why is that? Is that what those who disagree
with this proposed moderator are going to have to face in a moderated group?
Where does "questioning" someone, second guessing them, accusing them etc
end and harassment and censorship begin?

Not one thing was said to another poster who advised someone to illegally
shoot and kill our protected herons. Not even a suggestion he mention it's
illegal amd immoral to do that in the USA. But my post about the farm pond
had them in hysterics!!!!!!!! :-O Why was that Gill?



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

WRONG......I have faith in each and every one of the mmoderators
integrity to give any of my posts a fair shake. I for one had
literally abused each and every one of them over the years, some more
so than others, and yet I have no fear they will treat my posts as
they should be. I am not paranoid nor am I suffering form aprehension
for stuff I said previously. Whats has been said and what has been
done is history, so I accept what ever falls..........I just feel for
"ALL" of the mods if they kick back a post CArol makes as frompast
history its allevident its gonna be a sign of an attack, True she can
not create a ruckus on the moderated group, but she sure is capable of
dragging that persons name through the various other groups trashing
it to no end, as she is so wellknown for doing,. Just looik at her
posts in the varous aquaria groups since this past weekend. Look how
she has beeninstrumental in trashing Jans name.....You can not deal
properly and fairly with a person without any judgement or morales or
common sense. ...as your gonna be at odds all the time with a simple
dissagreement. While things are still being worke don I suggest a
means to ban be looked at so when the time comes and its ineveitable
it is coming, it can be implemented. Course that is not gonna help
when she drags folks names through the mud now is it.....but there is
ways to handle that if folks take a stand.

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:02:58 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:55:17 -0600, Tristan
wrote:

Houston, we have a problem......Y'all gonna have to modify the RFD to
allow potential posters the right to specify what mmoderator will
infact read their posts for approval. Seems some have troupble with
who may or may not read their posts now. If CArol can get special
priveledges on who gets to read her posts I also request that only
certain ones read and approve mine and no one but them.........

Just how far is this moderation requirement gonna need tobe refined
just to suit the problems created by one............I think it would
have been a whole lot quicker and really more efective if a consensus
of foks banded together and went after a certain person ISP and got
rif of the cancer totally.........Then all of usenet would be a better
place moderated or not.


I trust specialized moderator treatment will not put a delay in the
reading and posting of posts will it? I sure hate to miss any posts
that one has as its sure been a very enlightening experieince wth that
persons methods....
----------
We aren't set up to do anything at all like that right now. About
the only thing like that we have addressed is a common feeling that
moderators would not moderate their own posts. Even that requires
that a moderator recognize their own post and pass on it, sort of an
"honor system." It is pretty much chance as to what moderator reads
what post.

This may cause a problem Galen. There are a lot of hurt feelings and anger
where two of these proposed moderators are concerned. Human nature being
what it is they may not be able to remain neutral when "judging" someone's
messages they're angry at for whatever reason. That's why I feel we should
really try and find neutral moderators and those who can keep their cool
when disagreements come up.

It's doable in the software, but isn't written yet. For
now, it seems that the most effective thing is to raise objections to
the proposed moderator(s) about whether or not they should even be
moderators.

Human nature again. I doubt they'd agree and admit their animosity for
certain posters, and offer to step back so a neutral person can take their
place. Because if favoritism or censorship starts even a moderated group
would be doomed. I've seen that happen on Forums and posting boards over the
years. All but one are now gone from the scene.

--
Galen Hekhuis
We'll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Ah, excuse me carol its you and only you. It sproven yur the bellsouth
account thorugh alt.net with hipcrime software as it is probven y9yr
the other on motzarella as well. Admin on that news server is working
hand in hand in tracking and getting the good oon you girl......its
only a matter of time till yur not on usenet period! You trash each
and every group related to aquaria whemn your sdissagreed with and
make groups unuseable in yur so called payback to those that do not
agree with you. I have yet to "attack" you so get a clue. Now do I
dissagree w ith you , most certainly I do, your a paranoid simple
minded loon......not hard to figure out is it!
Show me porn, show me smut,.,.your not talking with your hubby Randy
here Carol........Ironic how you tolerate porn at home but fear it so
in public...Are you a southern baptist by chance? No, your a godless
bimbo without a frieind anywhere!


On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:09:37 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Tristan" wrote in message
m...
Just how far is this moderation requirement gonna need tobe refined
just to suit the problems created by one............

And the one who has viciously attacked other posters here and posted all the
porn and smut running everyone off is YOU Roy Hauer. The proof is all
archived. You now flood the group with off-topic HATE messages 7 days a
week.

I think it would
have been a whole lot quicker and really more efective if a consensus
of foks banded together and went after a certain person ISP and got
rif of the cancer totally.........Then all of usenet would be a better
place moderated or not.

You've already tried that an they found no abuse on my part. Even Bellsouth
and Hughes told you the messages you accuse/accused me of posting are not
from my account. Earthlink on the other hand was shocked when I personally
sent the security dept. 12 of your messages including the one where you play
the pimp trying to pimp me off........

There is no abuse coming from our accounts and you admitted that on the reef
group.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!