On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:39:30 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
.. .
brevity snip

It may become a problem, I can see lots of potentials. People might
try to game the timezones to avoid a particular moderator. Like
you say, if requests are allowed some moderators might squawk at being
overburdened or virtually ignored. Perhaps some form of banning may
be necessary, but I hope not.

Banning those who constantly post profanity/smutty posts and degrading
personal attacks on others should be done. Those kinds of posts are a turn
off to any moderator and they shouldn't have to be exposed to them. They
cause bad vibes and negativity.

Many things are trivial to change, I've
been able to change my IP at will over the past few weeks. There just
isn't much to work with in header information, and I think more and
more folks will find it easier and easier to screw with header
information as time goes on. It's pretty hard to disguise your text
and still get a message across.

THERE YOU GO! That's just what I told Gill and Jan and a few people from
the aquarium groups when they wanted me to try and come back with a new nym
and persona to stop the troll attacks. It seems others here were ether
forced off the group or had to resort to this trickery because of the SAME
person/troll personally attacking them. You cannot disguise yourself
forever. The mods on the other hand are going to have to learn how to spot
forged headers. As Roy recently found out, the messages I've been accused
of sending are not from my account.

You are dealing with shrewd, experienced, obsessed "mission" trolls here as
Jayne called them Galen, and they have no intention of letting this go
because of a moderated group.

On the one hand you suggest banning certain posters, and then in the
next paragraph you argue against the very using the very same
characteristics used to identify certain posters. Banning simply
requires faith in using header information to determine identity. I
don't have such faith, the information is too easily forged/changed.

Carol Gulley the winfgless wonder and defender of posters integrity on
USENET. Have all these oflks asked you to take up their issues with me
on USENET or do you have a service that they subscribe to..sort of
like a one person vigilante group? Your a lunatic CArol, a real
lunatic...
Might I suggest, Hell no I know your not gonna take anything I
suggest to heart) that you mind your own business and if those folks
have an issue let them take it up, since they know more about their
issue than yu do...Youknow little to nothing of what has gone on
behind the scenes only what 9y perceived you read.........get a clue
carol . and for trashing your an dyour husband integrity, since when
were Gulleys ever instilled with any such thing as integrity........it
did not happen......you need to earn it,comstrhing clearly seen that
you and Randy have not made an attemp at obtaining...Integrity and
morales is not a Carol Gulley trait.......face it! You sure like to
poke yiur snoot into other affairs.....you old biddy. If they are not
worried about it then why would you be.......you have no reputation
worth saving at this point, nor any morales so why worry......its
futile your a loser anyhow!


On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:24:34 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Tristan" wrote in message
m...

Oh, I trust those involved, however there is one or two folks around
who would think nnothing of trashing a persons integrity if their
posts were kicked back.....
==============
Like you trashed Gills, Derek's, Dicks, Eds, Gail's mine and about 20 other
people's integrity with personal attacks because you couldn't get your way?
You even attacked my husband's integrity, a total stranger to you who never
once posted or read any of these fish or pond groups.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

I nominate CArol Gulley aka Zebulon a sa moderator since she seems to
be of the iopinion she is never in error and she has the most intact
reputation and integrity of all involved in the usenet groups.


Do I have to send her recomendation into the big 8 or what....I think
caro lwould make a jam up moderator..........



On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:29:07 -0500, Galen Hekhuis
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:02:58 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

This may cause a problem Galen. There are a lot of hurt feelings and anger
where two of these proposed moderators are concerned. Human nature being
what it is they may not be able to remain neutral when "judging" someone's
messages they're angry at for whatever reason. That's why I feel we should
really try and find neutral moderators and those who can keep their cool
when disagreements come up.

I think all the moderators realize it could become a problem, and
we've tried to combat this. Hopefully it will be accomplished by
having fairly clear criteria spelled out in the charter and by judging
by content, and not header information (author). But if you can scare
up any willing would-be moderators, especially in differing timezones,
go for it.

Human nature again. I doubt they'd agree and admit their animosity for
certain posters, and offer to step back so a neutral person can take their
place. Because if favoritism or censorship starts even a moderated group
would be doomed. I've seen that happen on Forums and posting boards over the
years. All but one are now gone from the scene.

We'll try to keep from doing that.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Twisting words and phrases around again huh carol., I said I founf out
the bellsouth attacks were not in fact from a bellsouth accounmt, but
they were in fact made by you through alt.net account using
hipcrime. They were in fact made by you carol. Just yet one more of
yur sneaky avenues unwrapped. YOu think allthese other nntps are
lettig you go on with your crap. Guess again, they are mnapping each
and every post you make......lots of behind rthe scene stuff
conducted by lots of foks in these groups in conjuncitn with ISP's and
NNTP, and the finger keeps point to CArol Gulley for some reason or
toher.

Dream on Carol Dream on. You may not be on usenet to have to worry
about your posts getting past a moderator. May even give you more time
to go throw broken glass and nails on the roadway so randy can tow em
in! CArol Gulley with scruples or morales...what a joke!


On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:39:30 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
m...
brevity snip

It may become a problem, I can see lots of potentials. People might
try to game the timezones to avoid a particular moderator. Like
you say, if requests are allowed some moderators might squawk at being
overburdened or virtually ignored. Perhaps some form of banning may
be necessary, but I hope not.

Banning those who constantly post profanity/smutty posts and degrading
personal attacks on others should be done. Those kinds of posts are a turn
off to any moderator and they shouldn't have to be exposed to them. They
cause bad vibes and negativity.

Many things are trivial to change, I've
been able to change my IP at will over the past few weeks. There just
isn't much to work with in header information, and I think more and
more folks will find it easier and easier to screw with header
information as time goes on. It's pretty hard to disguise your text
and still get a message across.

THERE YOU GO! That's just what I told Gill and Jan and a few people from
the aquarium groups when they wanted me to try and come back with a new nym
and persona to stop the troll attacks. It seems others here were ether
forced off the group or had to resort to this trickery because of the SAME
person/troll personally attacking them. You cannot disguise yourself
forever. The mods on the other hand are going to have to learn how to spot
forged headers. As Roy recently found out, the messages I've been accused
of sending are not from my account.

You are dealing with shrewd, experienced, obsessed "mission" trolls here as
Jayne called them Galen, and they have no intention of letting this go
because of a moderated group.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Facts are facts there is only one person with any intent on forging
headers and thats carol contrary as to what she says with other
supposedly using hipcrime., Its just not so......no proof has ben
given any posts made by Tristan or others sop accused have used
hipcrime but its clearly evident she is ussing hipcrime and forgeing
posts as her last rampage this past week on JAn has demonstrated and
her Bellsouth forgeries......What better domain to use than your own
with forged headers to make it appear that way.......too mbad the
truth came out especially when she confessed to Gill she is behind the
trashing of rref group.....and they were all the forged bellsouth
posts made through alt.net server......Can't get much better than a
self confession by trhe queen bee herself and no one used a rubber
hose on her in th eprocess, she just screwed up and it was caught by
others......I guess carol is losing her touch and control with those
sokcs she keeps! Too may socks, too many lies, too many free news
servcer accounts to keep up with. Normal folks only need one....



..On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:00:38 -0500, Galen Hekhuis
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:39:30 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
om...
brevity snip

It may become a problem, I can see lots of potentials. People might
try to game the timezones to avoid a particular moderator. Like
you say, if requests are allowed some moderators might squawk at being
overburdened or virtually ignored. Perhaps some form of banning may
be necessary, but I hope not.

Banning those who constantly post profanity/smutty posts and degrading
personal attacks on others should be done. Those kinds of posts are a turn
off to any moderator and they shouldn't have to be exposed to them. They
cause bad vibes and negativity.

Many things are trivial to change, I've
been able to change my IP at will over the past few weeks. There just
isn't much to work with in header information, and I think more and
more folks will find it easier and easier to screw with header
information as time goes on. It's pretty hard to disguise your text
and still get a message across.

THERE YOU GO! That's just what I told Gill and Jan and a few people from
the aquarium groups when they wanted me to try and come back with a new nym
and persona to stop the troll attacks. It seems others here were ether
forced off the group or had to resort to this trickery because of the SAME
person/troll personally attacking them. You cannot disguise yourself
forever. The mods on the other hand are going to have to learn how to spot
forged headers. As Roy recently found out, the messages I've been accused
of sending are not from my account.

You are dealing with shrewd, experienced, obsessed "mission" trolls here as
Jayne called them Galen, and they have no intention of letting this go
because of a moderated group.

On the one hand you suggest banning certain posters, and then in the
next paragraph you argue against the very using the very same
characteristics used to identify certain posters. Banning simply
requires faith in using header information to determine identity. I
don't have such faith, the information is too easily forged/changed.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:39:30 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
. ..
brevity snip

It may become a problem, I can see lots of potentials. People might
try to game the timezones to avoid a particular moderator. Like
you say, if requests are allowed some moderators might squawk at being
overburdened or virtually ignored. Perhaps some form of banning may
be necessary, but I hope not.

Banning those who constantly post profanity/smutty posts and degrading
personal attacks on others should be done. Those kinds of posts are a turn
off to any moderator and they shouldn't have to be exposed to them. They
cause bad vibes and negativity.

Many things are trivial to change, I've
been able to change my IP at will over the past few weeks. There just
isn't much to work with in header information, and I think more and
more folks will find it easier and easier to screw with header
information as time goes on. It's pretty hard to disguise your text
and still get a message across.

THERE YOU GO! That's just what I told Gill and Jan and a few people from
the aquarium groups when they wanted me to try and come back with a new
nym
and persona to stop the troll attacks. It seems others here were ether
forced off the group or had to resort to this trickery because of the SAME
person/troll personally attacking them. You cannot disguise yourself
forever. The mods on the other hand are going to have to learn how to
spot
forged headers. As Roy recently found out, the messages I've been accused
of sending are not from my account.

You are dealing with shrewd, experienced, obsessed "mission" trolls here
as
Jayne called them Galen, and they have no intention of letting this go
because of a moderated group.
==============================
On the one hand you suggest banning certain posters,

There are posters on this group just here to troll. One doesn't even own a
pond or fishtank. He's never posted even one on-topic message since he came
to this group.

and then in the
next paragraph you argue against the very using the very same
characteristics used to identify certain posters.

Ok, you lost me here. I've been on this group since 1996 and have both ponds
and fish tanks. Until the troll invasion virtually all my posts were
on-topic. I seldom even read the off-topic threads.

Banning simply
requires faith in using header information to determine identity. I
don't have such faith, the information is too easily forged/changed.

This is true. I didn't think of that.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/fo...ay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Tristan" wrote in message
...


Facts are facts there is only one person with any intent on forging
headers and thats carol contrary as to what she says with other
supposedly using hipcrime............
======================
You were the one who lost his ISP because of just what you're accusing me
of. When Earthlink's security dept. was sent your messages complete with
headers they were identified as YOURS coming from your account. You didn't
realize you can't use Hipcrime's NewsAgent without your ISP's logs picking
it up. You thought you were going to blame those messages on me, but found
out you shot yourself in your own foot. Keep using that software and your
new ISP will also soon be aware of it. BTW, you seemed to forget the post
where you admitted using this software right on this NG last year. The
header had your ID which is what your last ISP went by. Logs were checked.

As you already admitted in the reef group - the messages did not come from
*my account* nor are any new ones coming from my account. You already
called them. The logs showed no use of such software or any abuse whatsoever
at Bellsouth or Hughes. So who's sending them again this time Roy? Since
you were already caught once, I would guess it's you at it again.

So thanks Tristan for showing the world what habitual or pathological liar
you are! How you will stoop to any level to get me to comply with your
wishes.

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:02:58 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

This may cause a problem Galen. There are a lot of hurt feelings and anger
where two of these proposed moderators are concerned. Human nature being
what it is they may not be able to remain neutral when "judging" someone's
messages they're angry at for whatever reason. That's why I feel we
should
really try and find neutral moderators and those who can keep their cool
when disagreements come up.

I think all the moderators realize it could become a problem, and
we've tried to combat this. Hopefully it will be accomplished by
having fairly clear criteria spelled out in the charter and by judging
by content, and not header information (author). But if you can scare
up any willing would-be moderators, especially in differing timezones,
go for it.

I'm hoping I can convince BoyPete from the UK to serve as he is level
headed, intelligent, sincere and I believe he can hold himself above petty
nonsense, personalities and disagreements between posters and not get
emotionally involved.

Human nature again. I doubt they'd agree and admit their animosity for
certain posters, and offer to step back so a neutral person can take their
place. Because if favoritism or censorship starts even a moderated group
would be doomed. I've seen that happen on Forums and posting boards over
the
years. All but one are now gone from the scene.

We'll try to keep from doing that.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/fo...ay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Tristan" wrote in message
...

Call whoever you need to call and have the person's service pulled. That is
unless you're afraid they'll pull your *OWN* service like Earthlink did.

"Tristan" wrote in message
...
They are forged posts injected through a news service company out of
Seattle Washington, by the name of Alt.net, which is actually
altopia.com
If your looking to kill filter posts kill filter on email addy not
user.......results are much better. I have spent a bit of time on the
phone with Bellsouth as well as ATT and they assure me those posts are
not going through their servers. They stated they are indeed forged to
appear like they originate from Bellsouth, and then they pointed the
finger to Altopia.com and their news server company alt.net!

-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

snip mindless BS
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Galen Hekhuis wrote:


On the one hand you suggest banning certain posters, and then in the
next paragraph you argue against the very using the very same
characteristics used to identify certain posters. Banning simply
requires faith in using header information to determine identity. I
don't have such faith, the information is too easily forged/changed.

I agree with Galen here about not having faith in making a banning
decision on the basis of header information or ID - both can be forged
or changed and therefore not only is it unreliable but open to all sorts
of pitfalls - including the fact that someone determined enough could
get another poster banned unfairly.....I am also not comfortable with
the whole concept of banning posters who are capable of making a
contribution to the group (I feel slightly differently about obvious
spammers that only post to advertise either their commercial interests,
scams or links to dubious material.) This is the reason why I am a firm
believer in moderating on content only.....anyone can post on RPM as far
as I am concerned as long as they don't violate the charter (and that
goes for both Carol and Roy).....any non-clear rejections should always
be discussed by more than one moderator - not only because one person
might read something one way and another person another, additionally
it gives a degree of protection to the moderator in question (pressing
the reject button) from any slurs made against their integrity or
neutrality....

Gill

For the umpteenth time Earthlink did not pull my service dipshit, I
terminated it for another isp costing less than half of Earthlinks.
How about uyour numeorus isps such s HOTN and other services carol,
care to elaborate on them perhaps..Sorry bitch, I do not have your
habits or integrity level.

Then again youy would not belive anyhtin gsaid anyhow so why do I
bother repeating myself..... You dumbass!

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:34:31 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Tristan" wrote in message
m...

Call whoever you need to call and have the person's service pulled. That is
unless you're afraid they'll pull your *OWN* service like Earthlink did.

"Tristan" wrote in message
m...
They are forged posts injected through a news service company out of
Seattle Washington, by the name of Alt.net, which is actually
altopia.com
If your looking to kill filter posts kill filter on email addy not
user.......results are much better. I have spent a bit of time on the
phone with Bellsouth as well as ATT and they assure me those posts are
not going through their servers. They stated they are indeed forged to
appear like they originate from Bellsouth, and then they pointed the
finger to Altopia.com and their news server company alt.net!

-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

snip mindless BS



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

What does owning a fish tank or pond have to do withthe price of tea
in china CArol. There is a mod who does not have koi or a pond with
anyhtin gother than frogs in it. Everyone has to start somewhere and
who the hellare you to say that so called person may not osmeday get
themself a tank or pond........stranger things have happend, look at
you found hubby number 5 , you manage to scrape by with insinuations
and slanderous remarks without someone knocking yur head off.......so
heys its possible this person can really get a pond or fish tank. Why
do you feel the propensity to play god and dictate what others do or
don;t in regards to what yu want them to do...Your a freaking
hipocrite carol.....plain and simple. A babbling idiotic hipocrite
free of any scruples and morales of any kind.

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:59:25 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:39:30 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
news:hekbt21fmlabupc1nsbht60du5k6iaacj9@4ax. com...
brevity snip

It may become a problem, I can see lots of potentials. People might
try to game the timezones to avoid a particular moderator. Like
you say, if requests are allowed some moderators might squawk at being
overburdened or virtually ignored. Perhaps some form of banning may
be necessary, but I hope not.

Banning those who constantly post profanity/smutty posts and degrading
personal attacks on others should be done. Those kinds of posts are a turn
off to any moderator and they shouldn't have to be exposed to them. They
cause bad vibes and negativity.

Many things are trivial to change, I've
been able to change my IP at will over the past few weeks. There just
isn't much to work with in header information, and I think more and
more folks will find it easier and easier to screw with header
information as time goes on. It's pretty hard to disguise your text
and still get a message across.

THERE YOU GO! That's just what I told Gill and Jan and a few people from
the aquarium groups when they wanted me to try and come back with a new
nym
and persona to stop the troll attacks. It seems others here were ether
forced off the group or had to resort to this trickery because of the SAME
person/troll personally attacking them. You cannot disguise yourself
forever. The mods on the other hand are going to have to learn how to
spot
forged headers. As Roy recently found out, the messages I've been accused
of sending are not from my account.

You are dealing with shrewd, experienced, obsessed "mission" trolls here
as
Jayne called them Galen, and they have no intention of letting this go
because of a moderated group.
==============================
On the one hand you suggest banning certain posters,

There are posters on this group just here to troll. One doesn't even own a
pond or fishtank. He's never posted even one on-topic message since he came
to this group.

and then in the
next paragraph you argue against the very using the very same
characteristics used to identify certain posters.

Ok, you lost me here. I've been on this group since 1996 and have both ponds
and fish tanks. Until the troll invasion virtually all my posts were
on-topic. I seldom even read the off-topic threads.

Banning simply
requires faith in using header information to determine identity. I
don't have such faith, the information is too easily forged/changed.

This is true. I didn't think of that.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:09:37 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Tristan" wrote in message
m...
Just how far is this moderation requirement gonna need tobe refined
just to suit the problems created by one............

And the one who has viciously attacked other posters here and posted all the
porn and smut running everyone off is YOU Roy Hauer. The proof is all
archived. You now flood the group with off-topic HATE messages 7 days a
week.

Oh, and those posts that wind up in the various aquaria groups and
slams on proposed mods and slaps given to folks that callyour hand at
your giving out erroneous info all is done by this suppsedly bad
person who badgers you? YOu do have a very vivid imagination. Is it
the voices in yur head that tells you this? Is it all part of yur
illness you suffer from, well make that mental illness as your a real
mental case, any head doc would love to have for a case study in
mul;tiple personalities and paranoia traits......YOur beyond bi
polar.....so just bear with the folks until they can come up with a
name befitting your problems......I am sure it will be in yur best
interest....I hear its proposed to call it the Gulley or the Carol
Gulley syndrome.......

I think it would
have been a whole lot quicker and really more efective if a consensus
of foks banded together and went after a certain person ISP and got
rif of the cancer totally.........Then all of usenet would be a better
place moderated or not.

You've already tried that an they found no abuse on my part. Even Bellsouth
and Hughes told you the messages you accuse/accused me of posting are not
from my account. Earthlink on the other hand was shocked when I personally
sent the security dept. 12 of your messages including the one where you play
the pimp trying to pimp me off........


Thats right, they are messages forged tolook like they are from those
ISP's created with hipcrime by you and interjected into usenet by way
of your altopia (alt.net) account carol.......We all ready know you
have an account there......Altopia confirmed your IP addy as to the
user and poster........and also other NNTP's that have dumped your
free access have also confirmed this with identical IP addy........all
pointing to you carol......and only you. Addingin Bellsouth is a
nice touch as it serves to buy you time while folks go off on a wild
goose chase, while you continue on forgeing headers and posts and
sending them out via alt.net..

Real class act yu did on Jan there too, and after all that Jan has
done for you. You sure can not stand it when yu see others getting
along without a hassle, where as yu are in capable of doing the same
so you insist on undermining or trying to undermine those folks
friendships. Its just too bad you have never experieinced a real
friendship of a person. But to dothat yu have to give and take and
have trust.....none of which you posess, so that leaves you out,
Evident in yur incessant need to create your list of friends through
other derelics and perverts and a long list of socks........

Your a pityfull excuse for a human being there miss queen bee gully, a
real pityfull excuse without reason to do what you do.......There is
no such thing as water under the bridge with you for anyone concerned
as your so adapt at dredge up past crap and beating those dead horses.
I bet your trailer park stinks to high heaven with all those dead
horse carcasses out there getting their daily ritual of a beating. I
bet your neighbors havea blast watching y u have a melt down and
beating those dead horses as well as Randy beating his dumb brain dead
mule named Carol.


Have a good day Carol, so far its not really been in your best
interests has it! ;-) Actually these last couple of weeks has not
been in your best interests now that I think of it. I guess once a
loser always a loser, so its robbaly not gonna get any b etter if
thats what your hoping for......a moderated group is not in your
favor now or in the future, so rememebr that..

There is no abuse coming from our accounts and you admitted that on the reef
group.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

How the hell do yoou kmnow what I post carol, you make claims that you
do not ready ANY of my posts and only see what I wrote if its a reply
from someone else, well the last 2 dozen posts I made had no such
replies yet you still had something to say about them. You lie ,
always will lie and probably squeal like a hog when caught with your
hands in a cookie jar too.......your dispicable carol totally uterrly
dispicable!


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Just for the record, I'm neither angry, annoyed, etc. at any poster on any
topic recent to RP. Nor do I plan to use being a mod as a power trip as
implied.

As far as attacks to me personally on free usenet after RPM.... Not too
worried about that either. No one will know who rejected what, and it takes
2 to reject anyway. So, imo, if 2 people say 1 post is reject able, I guess
that poster might as well get over it and do a re-write. ~ jan