Hi all, just started up a 1/2 barrel liner pond /w fountain pump after
reading the posts here, but have a few questions..

I did not put gravel at the bottom. Can you tell me what kind of
gravel is ideal? It is in a sunny location, I picked up 25 lbs of
aquarium gravel (epoxy coated or something like that), but I thought
was expensive. Can I get the small river pebbles from Lowes
landscaping section? It is alot cheaper more natural looking.

I got 3 plants: Anacharis, variegated Acorous, and sword plant, the
latter 2 have a small basket, Do I need soil or are they supposed to be
held in place by gravel? the Anacharis have a metal ring on it. I
read the acrorous needs shallow planting and my liner is 16" deep.
What is a good way to install the plants higher?

I saw some bareroot water lily in bags and instrutions calls for
gardening soil, I was wondering, You can put these with garden soil in
a basket and put in the pond? Wouldn't it make a mess? Do I get the
"aquatic soil" from the same section of the store?

What kind of floating plants do you recommend beside dwarf water lily?
I have been to the gardening centers and have trouble finding floating
plants.

I am using tap water right now, bought a bottle of declorinator, but I
read the chlorine will disperes in a few days. Do I need to use this
or not?

Finally, when can I add a couple of gold fish?

Thanks in advance

On 21 Aug 2005 21:11:55 -0700, wrote:

Hi all, just started up a 1/2 barrel liner pond /w fountain pump after
reading the posts here, but have a few questions..

I did not put gravel at the bottom. Can you tell me what kind of
gravel is ideal? It is in a sunny location, I picked up 25 lbs of
aquarium gravel (epoxy coated or something like that), but I thought
was expensive. Can I get the small river pebbles from Lowes
landscaping section? It is alot cheaper more natural looking.

Gravel for the botton of the container? Aquarium gravel is way too
expensive for that, the decorative river pebbles cost too much as
well. Once the water garden gets going the bottom of the container
won't be very visible, so it won't mattter. If I were going to use
rock I'd get some of the 3/4 inch crushed rock sold at Lowes in the
Building supply section, near the cement.


I got 3 plants: Anacharis, variegated Acorous, and sword plant, the
latter 2 have a small basket, Do I need soil or are they supposed to be
held in place by gravel? the Anacharis have a metal ring on it. I
read the acrorous needs shallow planting and my liner is 16" deep.
What is a good way to install the plants higher?

Anacharis can be planted is something, or just left to float. It does
well either way. Varigated Acorus should be planted in a container.
A way to raise it to the proper height is with bricks of concrete
blocks, set them on the bottom, set the plants on top of the brick.

I'm guessing that the sword plant came from an aquarium store, if so
it can go on the bottom of the container. A larger pot would be well,
if this is what I think it is the plant now is growing in mineral
wool. For aquarium use that is usually removed, I don't think it
matters here, but I'd use a bigger pot, some place for the roots to
grow. there are a lot of things called sword plants, I'm guessing
that you have some form of Echinodorous (Hope I spelled that right)
It may be tropical and not survive the winter outdoors, if that's
important to you.

I saw some bareroot water lily in bags and instrutions calls for
gardening soil, I was wondering, You can put these with garden soil in
a basket and put in the pond? Wouldn't it make a mess? Do I get the
"aquatic soil" from the same section of the store?

It's getting late in the season for starting lilies or floating
plants. (I presume you are in the Northern Hemisphere. The water
lilies work in regular dirt, or you can use some more of the rock I
mentioned, either way. Dirt does make a mess, but it settles out.
People put rocks on top the dirt to keep it from getting to be such a
mess, also to keep fish from digging in the dirt.

Water lilies don't like surface disturbance, I notice you are putting
in a fountain and have a rather small container. The lilies might not
do well. At the shop I frequent they have water features near the
lilies, and all seems well, so there is some latitude.

You could use aquatic potting soil, but that is a bit expensive and
doesn't work any better than the rock would.

What kind of floating plants do you recommend beside dwarf water lily?
I have been to the gardening centers and have trouble finding floating
plants.

for floating plants, water hyacinth or water lettuce would be good.
they soak up a lot of nutrients.

I am using tap water right now, bought a bottle of declorinator, but I
read the chlorine will disperes in a few days. Do I need to use this
or not?

The chlorine will dispurse by itself, but if you are going to put fish
in there, when the time comes to add more water you will need the
dechlorinator. Might as well use it to begine with. Do you have just
chlorine or do you have chloramine? Your water company can tell you.

Finally, when can I add a couple of gold fish?

I'd wait until you get the plants in there. They will help neutralize
the ammonia that the fish will give off. Otherwise, as soon as the
chlorine is gone, almost instantly if you use the dechlor.

Thanks in advance

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all, just started up a 1/2 barrel liner pond /w fountain pump after
reading the posts here, but have a few questions..

I did not put gravel at the bottom. Can you tell me what kind of
gravel is ideal? It is in a sunny location, I picked up 25 lbs of
aquarium gravel (epoxy coated or something like that), but I thought
was expensive. Can I get the small river pebbles from Lowes
landscaping section? It is alot cheaper more natural looking.\

## Yes, buy it at Lowe's or Home Depot. The pond and aquarium stores are a
real rip-off.

I got 3 plants: Anacharis, variegated Acorous, and sword plant, the
latter 2 have a small basket, Do I need soil or are they supposed to be
held in place by gravel?

## Just about all the pond plants do better planted in a good clay soil.
The anacharis can be left to float. It will root itself in a nearby pot.

the Anacharis have a metal ring on it. I
read the acrorous needs shallow planting and my liner is 16" deep.
What is a good way to install the plants higher?

## Anything you can fit in the barrel.

I saw some bareroot water lily in bags and instrutions calls for
gardening soil, I was wondering, You can put these with garden soil in
a basket and put in the pond? Wouldn't it make a mess? Do I get the
"aquatic soil" from the same section of the store?

## Use clean soil from your yard and a pot with holes in the bottom - or
line a large pond plant basket. Cover the soil with 1 to 2" of gravel. It
wont make a mess unless something knocks it over.

What kind of floating plants do you recommend beside dwarf water lily?
I have been to the gardening centers and have trouble finding floating
plants.

## Water lilies are rooted on the bottom. Just the leaves float. Water
lettuce and water hyacinth both float free in the water.

I am using tap water right now, bought a bottle of declorinator, but I
read the chlorine will disperes in a few days. Do I need to use this
or not?

## Not unless you plan to put fish in the barrel within a few days of
filling it.

Finally, when can I add a couple of gold fish?

## Don't add more than two. I replace the two I have in my barrels with
smaller fish each spring. Healthy well fed GF grow quickly.

Thanks in advance
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Thanks for the replies so far.

It sounds like I can get either the small river rock pebbles or the pea
gravel from the construction section. Which one is better? Is the
pebble smooth surface preferred or gravel rough surface? Anything
related to beneficial bateria here?

Still debating about the sunken pots vs lining the bottom of the barrel
with soil, how thick a layer of soil do I need? Can I use regular
nursery pots instead of the aquatic pots (more holes). It might be
easier to plant with the bottom soil layed out than having about a
gallon pot for each plant, right?

I am thinking of using a regular nursery pot up side down and cutting a
door out for the fish to hide in the shade and also use as a "plant
shelf".

I have trouble locating a dwarf water lily. Can I get a regular water
lily? Where do I look for these because aquarium stores don't sell
floating plants.

I have read about they don't like ripples, the pump valve adjustable
and I am running it for aeration, I could make it very gentle if
needed.

I am in Northern California do you think I can run it during the winter
here? It might get to 32F at the coldest point of the year, but with
the fountain pump I don't think it would freeze.

Thanks again

I think it helps to look at the specific nature
of each plant.
Lilies like to be down about 18 inches and can
be down further.
Marginals are plants that like to grow on the edges
of ponds, you see them in water depth varying from
damp to several inches deep.
Your barrel only has one depth. If you want to mimic
a pond in a barrel you have to prop up the marginals
so it is best to plant them in containers and rest
those containers on bricks or an overturned plant
basket.

Aquatic plants really put on a lot of growth over
the summer and where you are at, into the fall.
They are going to need to be divided. Having them
in containers makes that a lot easier job.

I have a ten ft by ten ft, shallow pond, the Frog
Bog. The plants have quickly filled the entire
bog up and are marching out into the grass.
If we want to keep the bog viable for frog breeding
in the spring we have to get in every fall and
rip plants out from the middle. It is A LOT of work.
The plants are in rock (big mistake) and it takes
teenage boy power to get them out of the bog.
I would not do that again.

The nice thing about the rampant growth of aquatic
plants is that you will have divides to start another
barrel pond or an inground pond if you want.

kathy :-) www.blogfromthebog.com
this week's entry - aquatic snails
Pond 101 page for new pond keepers ~
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the replies so far.

It sounds like I can get either the small river rock pebbles or the pea
gravel from the construction section. Which one is better?

## I use all sizes for different things but I don't use them in my barrels.
Why? Because they get foul very fast and are hard to clean. I leave the
bottom bare.

Is the
pebble smooth surface preferred or gravel rough surface? Anything
related to beneficial bateria here?

## I read that bacteria more easily colonize a rough surface.

Still debating about the sunken pots vs lining the bottom of the barrel
with soil, how thick a layer of soil do I need? Can I use regular
nursery pots instead of the aquatic pots (more holes).

## The plants will do best if you lined the barrel with soil and planted
them in that. Any pot can be used just make sure there are HOLES in and
around the bottom.

It might be
easier to plant with the bottom soil layed out than having about a
gallon pot for each plant, right?

## Easier? No matter how you do it there is maintenance involved.

I am thinking of using a regular nursery pot up side down and cutting a
door out for the fish to hide in the shade and also use as a "plant
shelf".

## Yep! I've done that! :-)

I have trouble locating a dwarf water lily. Can I get a regular water
lily? Where do I look for these because aquarium stores don't sell
floating plants.

## Skip the water lily if you already have other plants already - and
something to move the water.

I have read about they don't like ripples, the pump valve adjustable
and I am running it for aeration, I could make it very gentle if
needed.

## But a normal water lily (non mini) can get over 6' across. I find they
don't do all that well in barrels as the leaves start to fall over the edge,
break, burn and turn brown. They need a lot of surface area to thrive.

I am in Northern California do you think I can run it during the winter
here? It might get to 32F at the coldest point of the year, but with
the fountain pump I don't think it would freeze.

## Make sure what you buy are HARDY. Avoid the tropicals as few (none?)
will survive 32F even for one night. None of mine ever did. Hold the water
lilies until you can dig a regular pond of at least 300 to 500 gallons. Or
you can sink a 150 $9.99 kiddy pool from Wal*Mart. Line it with a black
drop cloth, add 4 or 5" of soil and plant the lily right in the bottom. :-)

Thanks again

--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

Hi, I did more reading on plants, I have decided my "pond" is too small
and I will just leave the bottom bare as you suggested, just plants in
small herb pots for now. And keep the gravel to a minimum

What do you think if I just anchor the plant with gravel in pots and
soil in the tank at all? I think a bit of soil might likely cause a
big mess in my barrel, with the fountain pump running and small volume
of water, etc.

I was thinking water lily because I havn't got a floating plant of any
kind yet (but will continue to look for stores with hyacinth)
The pond get 6 hours of sun now and I think it will be too warm for
fish at certain hours without shading the surface quite well. And I
really want fish, even though can only support a couple of them.

BTW, any bigger pond is out of the question right now until I make this
barrel rather attractive, before approval for in-ground project will be
granted.

Next I have been wondering something else. If I add a small aquarium
filter to hang on there, would I be able to support more fishes?

Some folks like to use gravel to plant in.
I found it heck to work with when it came
time to divide the plants.

Now I use the black rigid mesh basket and
use the aquatic soil - which is a nice brown
colour. You can use plain, unscented kitty
litter (grey) and it is the same thing.

I flood the basket several times to rinse
off most of the dust and lower it gently
in. There will be some dust but it will
settle.

Or you can flood it (or garden soil) and
cover the top of the planting medium with
pebbles. This will keep the fish out of it.
Some fish like to pick up gravel, clay bits
and spit them out. Some fish have even
been known to get a rock stuck in their
mouths (they aren't that bright...)

You can put in an aquarium filter if you
want. Some people put in a pump in a
plant basket surround it with some kind
of filter media (I use plastic screening)
and filter the water that way with a small
spitter or bell fountain attached.

Starting small is a great way to learn.
I used a old sandbox when I was waiting for
the big pond to be dug.


kathy :-) www.blogfromthebog.com
this week's entry - aquatic snails
Pond 101 page for new pond keepers ~
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

On 22 Aug 2005 02:13:04 -0700, wrote:

Thanks for the replies so far.

It sounds like I can get either the small river rock pebbles or the pea
gravel from the construction section. Which one is better? Is the
pebble smooth surface preferred or gravel rough surface? Anything
related to beneficial bateria here?

Still debating about the sunken pots vs lining the bottom of the barrel
with soil, how thick a layer of soil do I need? Can I use regular
nursery pots instead of the aquatic pots (more holes). It might be
easier to plant with the bottom soil layed out than having about a
gallon pot for each plant, right?

I am thinking of using a regular nursery pot up side down and cutting a
door out for the fish to hide in the shade and also use as a "plant
shelf".

I have trouble locating a dwarf water lily. Can I get a regular water
lily? Where do I look for these because aquarium stores don't sell
floating plants.

I have read about they don't like ripples, the pump valve adjustable
and I am running it for aeration, I could make it very gentle if
needed.

I am in Northern California do you think I can run it during the winter
here? It might get to 32F at the coldest point of the year, but with
the fountain pump I don't think it would freeze.

Thanks again


Some notes:

Larger rocks are easier to remove & replace when cleaning, and they
hold less sludge. I use 1-2-inch river rocks in my barrel pond,
thinking of removing those, too.

If you do the inverted pot with a cutout, run a lighter flame over the
cut edges after making the cut. This will round the edge of the
plastic so the fish won't get cut while passing through.

Water lilies can be found in any nursery that sells pond plants. There
are also native lilies that can be found in local ponds. In addition,
my local Lowes and Home Depot sells them.

I wouldn't put a layer of soil in the bottom for the same reasons soil
isn't used in aquariums. Fish sewage builds up and becomes toxic. Rock
can be rinsed and reused, soil can't.

HTH
Mike


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody...I should have been more specific..." - Lily Tomlin

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, I did more reading on plants, I have decided my "pond" is too small
and I will just leave the bottom bare as you suggested, just plants in
small herb pots for now. And keep the gravel to a minimum

What do you think if I just anchor the plant with gravel in pots and
soil in the tank at all? I think a bit of soil might likely cause a
big mess in my barrel, with the fountain pump running and small volume
of water, etc.

## You can try it but I've never had anything but eel grass (vellisneria ?)
do well in nothing but a fine gravel. It doesn't supply the micronutrients
the plants need. You can try adding liquid plant food and see if that
works.

I was thinking water lily because I havn't got a floating plant of any
kind yet (but will continue to look for stores with hyacinth)

## Remember that floating plants will shade out anything UNDER the water.

The pond get 6 hours of sun now and I think it will be too warm for
fish at certain hours without shading the surface quite well. And I
really want fish, even though can only support a couple of them.

## Use a thermometer. I have 3 barrels and they are in the sun most of the
day. They are shaded by water lilies and stay cooler than the air (mid 90s
here in summer). But as I said only the mini's really do well and look good
in barrels. I'm just overrun with lilies so stuck a few in the barrels. My
barrels have plastic liners so the wood insulates the water from the sun and
heat I believe. The small goldfish do fine.

BTW, any bigger pond is out of the question right now until I make this
barrel rather attractive, before approval for in-ground project will be
granted.

## Uh oh,... :-)))

Next I have been wondering something else. If I add a small aquarium
filter to hang on there, would I be able to support more fishes?

## Yes. These barrels hold something like 30 gallons of water so 3 or 4
smallish goldfish would do ok, or about 8 rosy reds. Remember that the GF
will not utilize the bottom of the barrels. It's wasted water as far as
they're concerned. They will mainly stay around the surface - at least
that's what mine always do. I think the bottom is too dark and lacks
oxygen.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Thanks for all the replies.

I found some aquatic soil made by schultz and it is a clay granite, not
muddy stuff like I thought so I am going to use that, and then a layer
aquarium gravel over it. I am trying to keep the tank clean as
possible here, my liner is 20 gallon.


I found some 4" square black nursery pots, can I use these for now,
plants don't always need to be in a gallon pot, right? Since it would
take up a lot of space in a 26" round barrel, the 4" pot and some 6"
round pint pots I found should be ok.

Aquatic soil says shade cloth can be used to line the pots, which is a
plastic material and I have some so that is what I am going to do.

About the goldfish do I have to feed them? I am planning a 10 day
vacation next month. To create a better eco system (if we could call
it that) should I add a piece of river rock or aqurium rock for algae
and beneficial bacteria to grow?

wrote in message
ups.com...

About the goldfish do I have to feed them? I am planning a 10 day
vacation next month. To create a better eco system (if we could call
it that) should I add a piece of river rock or aqurium rock for algae
and beneficial bacteria to grow?
=========================
The beneficial algae will grow on everything under the water so adding a
rock wont matter that much. If you only have 2 small goldfish they may find
enough to eat for 10 days. I know mine wouldn't. We leave our fish for
long weekends but any longer than that and I have someone come over and feed
them at least every other day.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

"Reel Mckoi" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...

About the goldfish do I have to feed them? I am planning a 10 day
vacation next month. To create a better eco system (if we could call
it that) should I add a piece of river rock or aqurium rock for algae
and beneficial bacteria to grow?
=========================
The beneficial algae will grow on everything under the water so adding a
rock wont matter that much. If you only have 2 small goldfish they may
find enough to eat for 10 days. I know mine wouldn't. We leave our fish
for long weekends but any longer than that and I have someone come over
and feed them at least every other day.
--
I dunno....I had a goldfish in a barrel for five years and never fed him a
thing. Thought he might be a little lonely but otherwise he did fine.

--
J.D. Stone
http://www2.itexas.net/jdstone

Really, and just what scientific method did you use to come up with
the 10 days or is this just your opinion?

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 21:45:12 -0500, "Reel Mckoi"
wrote:

===
wrote in message
glegroups.com...
===
=== About the goldfish do I have to feed them? I am planning a 10 day
=== vacation next month. To create a better eco system (if we could call
=== it that) should I add a piece of river rock or aqurium rock for algae
=== and beneficial bacteria to grow?
============================
===The beneficial algae will grow on everything under the water so adding a
===rock wont matter that much. If you only have 2 small goldfish they may find
===enough to eat for 10 days. I know mine wouldn't. We leave our fish for
===long weekends but any longer than that and I have someone come over and feed
===them at least every other day.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

OK, my sword plant is ported in a 4" herb pot for now, Acrorus is in a
6" pot near the top.

Now my question about the filter. I asked about adding an aquarium
filter, but my fountain pump already has a big sponge cylinder over the
intake. 600 GPH per hour, this is already providing pretty good
filtration, right? I can just take it out and wash the sponge
regularly?

Would the goldfish die from the heat? I checked temperature it gets
to over 80 around 5pm. 1pm-5pm would probably be the worse times.
The fountain is on a bubbler nozzle I don't think there will be a lack
of oxygen.

I was under the impression the goldfish will eat anything when they are
hungry enough, like the Anacharis and other plants to support
themselves.