There is a movement afoot (mostly in Europe) to design "Natural"
swimming pools with veggie filters (they call it regeneration zones).
They build the pool about 1.5 times the swimming area, build a wall that
is just short of the top of the water in front of the 1/2 and use that
for planting lots of veggies. This allows NO chlorine or other killing
chemicals to be needed for pure clean safe swimming water.

I bought the book (Natural Swimming Pools by Michael Littlewood) that
preached this eco-friendly concept and I am buying into it. It has a
lot to do with this list and your approaches to low-maintenance ponds
with veggie filters. In fact, reading the book is almost like reading
this list. I want both fish and swimming and this seems to fit that to a T.

Now the questions since I had a pool guy out and he raised a few.

1) If I have a 450sq ft surface, how big do I need the veggie filter? I
will have pre-filters for the big stuff.

2) What veggies will survive a PHX summer of 110F days on end? The
water in the veggie filter will get warm if not hot, since it is only
about 3' deep. But I will be drawing water from the 8 1/2' depth with a
bottom drain.

Chip

you will need shade. build that into the design. there is going to be no way to
keep a pool cool enough for koi or GF without some kind of shade.

understand that nobody can go "pee pee" in the pond with fish in there.


On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:25:56 EDT, Chip wrote:

There is a movement afoot (mostly in Europe) to design "Natural"
swimming pools with veggie filters (they call it regeneration zones).
They build the pool about 1.5 times the swimming area, build a wall that
is just short of the top of the water in front of the 1/2 and use that
for planting lots of veggies. This allows NO chlorine or other killing
chemicals to be needed for pure clean safe swimming water.

I bought the book (Natural Swimming Pools by Michael Littlewood) that
preached this eco-friendly concept and I am buying into it. It has a
lot to do with this list and your approaches to low-maintenance ponds
with veggie filters. In fact, reading the book is almost like reading
this list. I want both fish and swimming and this seems to fit that to a T.

Now the questions since I had a pool guy out and he raised a few.

1) If I have a 450sq ft surface, how big do I need the veggie filter? I
will have pre-filters for the big stuff.

2) What veggies will survive a PHX summer of 110F days on end? The
water in the veggie filter will get warm if not hot, since it is only
about 3' deep. But I will be drawing water from the 8 1/2' depth with a
bottom drain.

Chip

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:25:56 EDT, Chip wrote:

This allows NO chlorine or other killing
chemicals to be needed for pure clean safe swimming water.

This doesn't make pure clean safe swimming water for humans either.
Ask your doctor. Ask your health department. Ask your lawyer before
you invite a neighbor to swim with you.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

Hal wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:25:56 EDT, Chip wrote:

This allows NO chlorine or other killing
chemicals to be needed for pure clean safe swimming water.

This doesn't make pure clean safe swimming water for humans either.
Ask your doctor. Ask your health department. Ask your lawyer before
you invite a neighbor to swim with you.

To answer 2 comments at the same time.

Yes, I have planned lots of shade for the pond by having a 12' dia
"island" built just over it. This island will have a tiki roof, so even
more shade. This will give the fish someplace to hang out during the
warmest part of the day. Still I am concerned about what veggies will
survive the hot water in the filter.

These "Natural" pools are all over Europe and many of them are
commercial or municipalities owned. I'm sure they check the water.
Don't want to get sued! BTW, didn't you ever swim in a lake before they
all became polluted with industrial runoff? There were fish and other
critters in there, doing what fish and other critters do. I'm just
trying to re-create that.

Chip

Hal wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:25:56 EDT, Chip wrote:

This allows NO chlorine or other killing
chemicals to be needed for pure clean safe swimming water.

This doesn't make pure clean safe swimming water for humans either.
Ask your doctor. Ask your health department. Ask your lawyer before
you invite a neighbor to swim with you.

Is this what America's come to? No, not using chlorine doesn't mean that
your pond will be clean, but getting legal advice before swimming??? I'd
trust a well filtered semi-natural pond before most public beaches... but
then, these days, most public beaches are closed every summer because of
coliform issues.
--
derek

Oh, I think this is what people are coming too.
Don't get me started on parrots going to french class...

k :-)

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:46:38 EDT, Chip wrote:

These "Natural" pools are all over Europe and many of them are
commercial or municipalities owned.

That surprises me! I would think more people in a pool would mean
higher chances of contamination. I never swam in a pool in another
country that wasn't on an AFB and wouldn't have noticed. I also never
swam in a pool that wasn't treated with chlorine or ozone.

I'm sure they check the water.
Don't want to get sued! BTW, didn't you ever swim in a lake before they
all became polluted with industrial runoff? There were fish and other
critters in there, doing what fish and other critters do. I'm just
trying to re-create that.

It is a neat idea and yes I did swim in local creeks and lakes and so
did my father years before me, but he blamed swimming in one for the
case of typhoid fever he had as a child. I was vaccinated and thought
myself bullet proof.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

we arent talking about getting a little sick, we are talking about kids dying from
microbes. especially in the south. most of those hit on by alligators dont die of
the bites, they die from aeromonas and other microbes in the "greenish" water.
our hot spa was fine just using an ozonator, but then it was only us in the water.
the minute you start inviting other people in there can be problems. Ingrid

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:47:09 EDT, Derek Broughton wrote:
Is this what America's come to? No, not using chlorine doesn't mean that
your pond will be clean, but getting legal advice before swimming??? I'd
trust a well filtered semi-natural pond before most public beaches... but
then, these days, most public beaches are closed every summer because of
coliform issues.

a swimming pool doesnt have the quantity of water that lakes do, or even quarries.
pee-pee in a lake doesnt have the impact like it does in a swimming pool. we sure
never went swimming in "green" ponds. Ingrid

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:46:38 EDT, Chip wrote:
BTW, didn't you ever swim in a lake before they
all became polluted with industrial runoff? There were fish and other
critters in there, doing what fish and other critters do. I'm just
trying to re-create that.

wrote:

we arent talking about getting a little sick, we are talking about kids
dying from microbes.

And I'm not talking about getting a little sick, or dying. I'm talking
about the ridiculous notion that anybody should need to consult a lawyer
before inviting someone to use their swimming hole.
--
derek

wrote:
we arent talking about getting a little sick, we are talking about kids
dying from microbes.

And I'm not talking about getting a little sick, or dying. I'm talking
about the ridiculous notion that anybody should need to consult a lawyer
before inviting someone to use their swimming hole. Derek

Aren't they one and the same? If you invite someone over and they get sick
from your pond, they could sue. Yea... creepy I know. Scary doubly so, but
that's what made umbrella policies so popular... all these what ifs.

Personally, I wouldn't want someone kicking my koi. ;-) Recommendations?
Check anyone for open sores, scratches, and make them use the restroom
before swimming. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

it is even more important to consult your insurance agent!!!!!!

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:02:42 EDT, Derek Broughton wrote:

wrote:

we arent talking about getting a little sick, we are talking about kids
dying from microbes.

And I'm not talking about getting a little sick, or dying. I'm talking
about the ridiculous notion that anybody should need to consult a lawyer
before inviting someone to use their swimming hole.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:44:26 EDT, ~ jan wrote:

wrote:
we arent talking about getting a little sick, we are talking about kids
dying from microbes.

And I'm not talking about getting a little sick, or dying. I'm talking
about the ridiculous notion that anybody should need to consult a lawyer
before inviting someone to use their swimming hole. Derek

Aren't they one and the same? If you invite someone over and they get sick
from your pond, they could sue. Yea... creepy I know. Scary doubly so, but
that's what made umbrella policies so popular... all these what ifs.

Personally, I wouldn't want someone kicking my koi. ;-) Recommendations?
Check anyone for open sores, scratches, and make them use the restroom
before swimming. ~ jan

I'd think posting some signs that said something like "Swim at your
own risk" and "No lifeguard on duty" would suffice. Anyway, on a
related note, I've looked all over (briefly searched the Internet) and
have found all kinds of signs, but not the one I want. I want to post
my property with "Beware of the Frog" signs, but I can't find one. One
with a sketch of a menacing frog would be nice, but I'd take most
anything. Anyone know where I can find them?
--
Galen Hekhuis
Hell hath no fury like a bird in the hand

I like this one
http://tinyurl.com/2qbfxp

k :-)

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:44:43 EDT, kathy wrote:

I like this one
http://tinyurl.com/2qbfxp

k :-)

Far out. Thanks.
--
Galen Hekhuis
I have no idea what happened, but I assure you it was all proper.