I'll be building a 5k gallon pond this spring and need to know what type of
filtration others are having success with.....
Should I build a filter or buy commercial which should run roughly $1500??

Thank you

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:59:06 CST, "John Arruda" wrote:

I'll be building a 5k gallon pond this spring and need to know what type of
filtration others are having success with.....
Should I build a filter or buy commercial which should run roughly $1500??

Thank you
What will the dimensions of the pond be?
The dimensions will determine how many bottom drains you'll need, and the size
of the settlement chamber before the filters. Normally, the settlement chamber
is 10% of the pond volume or more. There should be a mechanical filter after
the settlement chamber and the skimmer, then biological filters after that.
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Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

Web Site: www.destarr.com
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David Starr wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:59:06 CST, "John Arruda" wrote:

I'll be building a 5k gallon pond this spring and need to know what type of
filtration others are having success with.....
Should I build a filter or buy commercial which should run roughly $1500??

Thank you
What will the dimensions of the pond be?
The dimensions will determine how many bottom drains you'll need, and the size
of the settlement chamber before the filters. Normally, the settlement chamber
is 10% of the pond volume or more. There should be a mechanical filter after
the settlement chamber and the skimmer, then biological filters after that.


I thought I had read just about all the requirements for plumbing a
large pond, but this is something new. I never heard of a "settlement
chamber". Is this a "pre-filter"?

I am planning several bottom drains and a skimmer, to run through a
large pool sand filter w/ backwash capabilities, then to a veggie or bog
filter, finally over a stone lip to a waterfall back to the pond. Are
you saying I should have a "settlement chamber" and/or a pre-filter
before the sand filter?

Chip

Try here
http://www.happykoi.co.za/1.%20all%2...filtration.htm

or here http://www.hendersons.co.uk/filtration/page2.html

or here
http://www.koi.com.my/forum/KOI_Talk...Urgent!_P2381/

Don't think I would use a swimming pool sand filter but if you must try one
I would use it last just before you return the water to the pond.

Brushes work well as a coarse filter after the settlement basin. Then a
veggie filter.

Pat wrote:
Try here
http://www.happykoi.co.za/1.%20all%2...filtration.htm

or here http://www.hendersons.co.uk/filtration/page2.html

or here
http://www.koi.com.my/forum/KOI_Talk...Urgent!_P2381/

Don't think I would use a swimming pool sand filter but if you must try one
I would use it last just before you return the water to the pond.

Brushes work well as a coarse filter after the settlement basin. Then a
veggie filter.

Thank you.

Ques 1: The 1st article says use a mechanical filter before a sand
filter. That is exactly what I am planning. There is a plastic basket
that has fairly small 1/8" slots that all the water from the drains and
skimmer go through before my sand filter. This is easily cleaned.

Ques 2: Why not a sand filter w/backwash? BTW, I am converting a
swimming pool into a pond w/ swimming "hole". I would like to use as
much of the current plumbing and filter set-up as possible.

Ques 3: I read that the veggie filter should be the last thing before
re-entering the pond?

Ques 4: These articles don't address what a "settlement tank" is. My
original question.

Chip

"Chip" wrote in message ...
Ques 4: These articles don't address what a "settlement tank" is. My
original question.
=============================
My settling tank is a converted heavy duty rubber cattle trough that pond
water slowly circulates through and then returns to the pond... it's also a
plant filter since I have it loaded with pond plants. I flush it out several
times over the summer as it has a bottom drain. The muck runs over the
lawn - good fertalizer. :-)
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Chip" wrote in message ...
Ques 1: The 1st article says use a mechanical filter before a sand
filter. That is exactly what I am planning. There is a plastic basket
that has fairly small 1/8" slots that all the water from the drains and
skimmer go through before my sand filter. This is easily cleaned.

It's easily cleaned because it's not meant to catch anything small. It's
designed to snag bugs and leaves. A "mechanical filter" is a much more
effective thing. A rule of thumb is that it should filter out anything large
enough to see. Dense plastic mesh, polyfoam sheets, foam pads, enmeshed
brushes, and other materials with very small water passages/openings are
often used for this purpose. Your plastic strainer bucket just isn't enough.


Ques 2: Why not a sand filter w/backwash? BTW, I am converting a swimming
pool into a pond w/ swimming "hole". I would like to use as much of the
current plumbing and filter set-up as possible.

The typical "sand" or "diatomaceous earth" filter will work fine if you want
to take it apart and clean it every day. I'm guessing that you don't. Have a
look at the very good links that Pat sent previously. There are a number of
fairly inexpensive ones available. The difference between a "pool" and a
"pond" is wildlife including bacteria, unseeable algae, fish, and things
that will crawl up your leg. You have to create an ecosystem in the pond to
keep everything alive and healthy. It's more complicated than just not
throwing chlorine into the pool.

In addition, the filter should promote the growth of certain bacteria that
convert nitrogen compounds generated by fish and other plants & animals in
the water to more friendly ones. Shredded plastic, rocks, and other
materials are used to provide a place for these bacteria to live and do
their work. And if you have fish, you need aeration to provide the oxygen
they need.


Ques 3: I read that the veggie filter should be the last thing before
re-entering the pond?

That's correct, although I've seen folks who have a large enough and well
enough constructed veggie filter that they don't even need a mechanical
filter. But the veggie filter ends up being nearly as large as the pond.


Ques 4: These articles don't address what a "settlement tank" is. My
original question.

If you live in the country, you already have one. The septic tank buried in
your yard does the same thing. It is a tank with one or more dividing walls
in it that the water can flow over/under to get from the inlet on one side
to the outlet on the other. Things that are heavy or which floar cannot make
it through and remain in the tank. Occassionally, you have to shut the
system down and clean out the stuff it caught.

Good luck!

Michael
New Orleans, Louisiana USA
================================================== ==============

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:50:46 CST, Chip wrote:

David Starr wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:59:06 CST, "John Arruda" wrote:

I'll be building a 5k gallon pond this spring and need to know what type of
filtration others are having success with.....
Should I build a filter or buy commercial which should run roughly $1500??

Thank you
What will the dimensions of the pond be?
The dimensions will determine how many bottom drains you'll need, and the size
of the settlement chamber before the filters. Normally, the settlement chamber
is 10% of the pond volume or more. There should be a mechanical filter after
the settlement chamber and the skimmer, then biological filters after that.


I thought I had read just about all the requirements for plumbing a
large pond, but this is something new. I never heard of a "settlement
chamber". Is this a "pre-filter"?

Bottom drains connect to the settlement chamber. The pipes enter the chamber in
a way that gets the incoming water to swirl around in the chamber. This allows
the fish waste and other larger debris to settle to the bottom. The cleaner
water then goes to the other filters. This way, the other filters don't require
cleaning as often. The chamber is sized - 10% of the pond volume or more - to
allow the waste time to settle out. You can either have a drain at the bottom
of the chamber to drain off the accumulated waste, or use a trash pump to pump
it out.

I am planning several bottom drains and a skimmer, to run through a
large pool sand filter w/ backwash capabilities, then to a veggie or bog
filter, finally over a stone lip to a waterfall back to the pond. Are
you saying I should have a "settlement chamber" and/or a pre-filter
before the sand filter?


A bottom drain connected to 4" pipe should flow about 3600 gallons per hour, and
with an air dome attached, clean an area about 12ft in diameter. The number of
bottom drains would be determined by the dimensions of the pond.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

Web Site: www.destarr.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Do look into vortex filters. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Ques 1: The 1st article says use a mechanical filter before a sand
filter. That is exactly what I am planning. There is a plastic basket
that has fairly small 1/8" slots that all the water from the drains and
skimmer go through before my sand filter. This is easily cleaned.

The basket is probably going to need to be cleaned too often to work.
I like a sloping screen where the clean water falls thru and the crud stays
on top and gradually collects at the bottom of the screen.
Look here http://www.nahuelco.com/eng/productos_tamices.php?id=1


Ques 2: Why not a sand filter w/backwash?

A swimming pool has very clean water compared to a pond.
A sand filter will need frequent cleaning/backwashing.

BTW, I am converting a
swimming pool into a pond w/ swimming "hole". I would like to use as much
of the current plumbing and filter set-up as possible.

The skimmers should work okay. You will need need new bottom drains with 4
inch pipes.


Ques 3: I read that the veggie filter should be the last thing before
re-entering the pond?

True. However if you are going to use a sand filter place it last so that
the water going into it will be as clean as possible.
Use very coarse sand or small rocks. You will need to backwash frequently.
The lost water will need to be replaced.


Ques 4: These articles don't address what a "settlement tank" is. My
original question.


A settlement tank allows the debris time to sink to the bottom. It will do
about 50% of the work.
A good one will be circular in shape with a cone shaped bottom with drain
for easy cleaning.
The water will revolve in a circle with the clean water leaving at the top.
There are other types.
Try here http://www.aquaart.com/vortex.html

John,

The previous posters are correct about the problems of running a pool
filter for a pond. they do clog very fast.

Phyllis and I have a system with about 4,000 gal. We wanted a minimum
maintenance system.

The bottom drain is the submerged pump set in 5 gal bucket with as
many 1/2" holes as I could make in the bucket. The bucket sits one
brick off the bottom of a pit at the low point of the pond. The koi
swimming stir the muck, which then drifts with gravity and the water
flow to the pit. The big stuff (pine cones and needles and some
leaves) stays in the pit and is netted out once a year. We NEVER have
to clean the bottom of the main pond.

Our filter system is extremely simple and low maintenacne. We have
two series of smaller ( 8' long and 4' wide and 18" deep) ponds on a
berm that serve as veggie filters.. We have more than we need, but
that makes life easier. The berm ponds are full of water celery and
water hyacinth (with some parrots feather as well). The plant roots
serve as mechanical filters and as surfaces for bacteria. The growth
of the plants pulls waste nutrients from the pond. The water moves
slow enough through the veggie filters (about 45 min) that all the
muck settles out. The berm ponds have 2"bottom drains. Cleaning them
is simply opening the drain valves to let them drain onto the lawn.
They have 2+" of muck in them by the end of the year.

The water returns to the main pond over water falls and streams.

We run a UV filter only at the start of the year when the green water
algae start before the plants begin their growth.

The result has been very clear main pond water and a minimum of
maintenance work for the pond. The veggie filters are simply enough
to handle the entire thing. No settlement tank needed. No filter
pads to clean. Total maintenance is netting larger stuff from the pit
once a year and draining the berm ponds once a year. For our
purposes, this absolutely beats the tar out of more complex filtration
systems.

Here is a link to our pond site that has pics of the pond, for what
they may be worth.

home.bellsouth.net/personalpages/pwp-jameshurley

Jim

"~ jan" wrote
Do look into vortex filters. ~ jan


Why? Is there something worth seeing in there?


Michael
New Orleans, Louisiana USA
================================================== ==============

"Pat" wrote
A settlement tank allows the debris time to sink to the bottom. It will
do about 50% of the work.
A good one will be circular in shape with a cone shaped bottom with drain
for easy cleaning.
The water will revolve in a circle with the clean water leaving at the
top. There are other types.
Try here http://www.aquaart.com/vortex.html


Note: My reply yesterday concerning "settling tanks" was not the same as the
above description, because were were talking about two different types. The
"vortex" type described above removes the material through a swirling action
that sort of flushes out the suspended materials. The divided tank type I
described accomplishes the same thing, but does it by slowing the movement
of water and allowing the suspended and floating material to remain in the
tank.

Both work fine, but a divided settling tank is usually bigger than the
vortex type and needs to be cleaned out from time to time. And many people
claim the vortex variety is very efficient and requires less maintenance.
Personally, I think either one will do the job, it's just a matter of
preference and cost.


Michael
New Orleans, Louisiana USA
================================================== ==============

MLF wrote:


"~ jan" wrote
Do look into vortex filters. ~ jan


Why? Is there something worth seeing in there?


LOL! Thankfully, I still don't have my morning coffee...
--
derek

yep. I got a veggie filter, cleaned once a year. bottom of my pond
has the gravel on it that my koi knocked out of the lily pot. Ingrid

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:18:11 CST, Phyllis and Jim
wrote:
Our filter system is extremely simple and low maintenacne. We have
two series of smaller ( 8' long and 4' wide and 18" deep) ponds on a
berm that serve as veggie filters..