I am going to stick my neck out on this one. It is based
purely on a few observations and a few situations of elm stands. One
case in particular is a american elm
dutch elm free and where there are no maples in the vicinity.

And where there are alot of maples, especially silver maple, there is
a die-off of elms from dutch elm disease.

Now I looking in the literature for any reports of a connection
between maples and elms as vector of
dutch elm disease of either the beetles or the fungus,
and I found none.

So let me make this Hypothesis or Speculation that Maples provide a
host affect or a vector affect for Dutch Elm Disease and when maples
are absent from a region with elms that the elms will not have Dutch
Elm Disease. However, some of the elms will be attacked by the disease
but not killed for the beetle or fungus have their life cycles
interrupted due to the absence of maples.

Maybe it is the maple sap that is required by the beetles or the
fungus, or it could be something else.

I have noticed that where dense elms, and live elms grow there are few
if no maples around. And if a few catch Dutch Elm where no maples are
around, they can recover and grow back to normal.

I have noticed that where maples are well established
nearby to elms that all the elms disappear due to dutch elm disease.

So, if anyone cares to prove or disprove the above Conjecture? Feel
free to jump into it.

And perhaps one clue is offered by the fact that Siberian Elm is very
tolerant to dutch elm diseases DED and maples are native to Asia where
Siberian elm is native. So that the nativity of both over geological
time formed a elm resistant to DED but on other continents of elms, no
resistance was developed. And in North America and Europe, the elms
are dying in large percent leaving behind, over time, resistant elms,
much like what played out already in Asia with the Siberian Elm
resistance.

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Another factor that appears to be supporting evidence of this
Hypothesis-- maples are hosts
of DED, is the evidence that in the southern USA of around starting
with Arkansas that the
elms have fared nicely relative to DED disease free. Whereas the
northern states of elms,
of course there are alot of maples and of course Canada's national
tree is the maple.

I do not know if a detailed history has been kept of the sweeping of
DED across the USA.
Detailed as to die-off of elms, where and when for the past century of
DED. But from a
overall observation, it appears that DED has eliminated the elm of
american and rock-elm
from nearly all the northern states and Canada. Whereas the southern
states have not had
that devastation.

Of course, that is not proof, for to have proof we actually need to
find out how maples interact
with the beetles and fungus of DED. Perhaps it is an interaction with
the fungus that affects maples themselves-- verticillium wilt. And
maybe there is a common microbe that is beneficial
to both the DED fungus and the wilt fungus that the prescence of
maples allows for a resident
population of DED. I do not know the connections and am just
Hypothesizing a connection based on observations. It maybe something
analogous to that of apple cedar rust where the presence of the two
species allows the disease.

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

It is a shame we do not have the genome of the elms, the maples, the
beetles and fungus
of Dutch Elm Disease DED. For if we had the genome of all these
species, we may be able
to pinpoint why Siberian elm is DED resistant yet the other elms are
not resistant. If it we
could tell from the genome the causes, then we could instantly prove
or disprove this
Hypothesis that maples play a role in DED.

We should have some rules and regulations of genomic research, that
the species most endangered with extinction should be genome sequenced
as top priorities. The Rock Elm,
ulmus racemosa (thomasii) is threatened with extinction, and we should
make genome sequencing of Rock Elm a top priority.

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Now I wonder if there is a link between boisea trivittata, box elder
bug, and ascomycete
microfungi the fungus that causes Dutch Elm Disease, DED. I looked at
the elm bark
beetle and it is about 5 mm long whereas the box elder bug is 12mm
long. So is there some
link and is there a greater frequency of DED where maples are present?

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

In article
,
Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

Now I wonder if there is a link between boisea trivittata, box elder
bug, and ascomycete
microfungi the fungus that causes Dutch Elm Disease, DED. I looked at
the elm bark
beetle and it is about 5 mm long whereas the box elder bug is 12mm
long. So is there some
link and is there a greater frequency of DED where maples are present?

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Just get to a library & do a literature search! There is no
correlation --DED vectored from tree to tree by two bark beetles!

Mike Griggs wrote:
In article
,
Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

Now I wonder if there is a link between boisea trivittata, box elder
bug, and ascomycete
microfungi the fungus that causes Dutch Elm Disease, DED. I looked at
the elm bark
beetle and it is about 5 mm long whereas the box elder bug is 12mm
long. So is there some
link and is there a greater frequency of DED where maples are present?

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Just get to a library & do a literature search! There is no
correlation --DED vectored from tree to tree by two bark beetles!

Well, Mike, you live in upstate NY near Cornell and there are plenty
of maples there.
There are plenty of maples throughout the northern US and Canada. And
is it not true,
or is it true that the worst DED is in the Northern US + Canada, and
the least DED
is in the Southern US? In fact, I would guess that ulmus thomasii is
faring far better
in the Southern US than in its native geography of the Great Lakes
states.

Am I not correct, that the worst DED is in the Northern USA + Canada
as per frequency
of elm elimination of those species most vulnerable, americana,
racemosa (thomasii)?

If I am correct on that data, then there must be an answer for it. And
the answer looks to
me to be that maples somehow host the DED. Because maples are out of
their range
in the Southern USA.

I suspect it is highly reasonable to think we only know about 1/2 of
the disease cycle of DED
and the other 1/2 we have yet to learn.


Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Now I heard this story about an elm recovery from DED (Dutch Elm
Disease) where there were few to zero maples in the region. Where a
few elm had been attacked with the DED
and those limbs were removed and then the elm making full recovery and
growing to fill
in what it had lost. I have never heard of such a good luck ending
story of any other
elm tree attacked by DED. So there must be an explanation for this,
and it cannot be
good luck, because it is an entire region of elms in the absence of
maples.

And there is another datum that begs for explanation. I cannot say how
widespread
this data is, but only for the state of Wisconsin which can be
considered the central
homeland, native homeland of Ulmus thomasii, the cork elm. I have been
told that
none of the cork-elm in Wisconsin is producing seeds anymore, or at
least, many eager persons wanting to collect seed in Wisconsin have
seen none for years now. And this
is why I keep harping on a plan in case the cork-elm is going extinct,
is to be able to
graft the species for years into the future until DED is conquered.

But the thing about the DED and the possibility that no cork elm in
the northern US and
Canada is producing seed anymore, if that be true, implies that the
DED has some
sort of destruction on the ability to produce seed, years before the
elm actually dies of
DED.

So I wonder if these two issues are also connected with the elms that
grow in the southern
USA, of about Missouri and south, whether the elms no longer produce
seed in the southern
states and whether the elms in the southern states can recover a DED
attack by cutting out the affected limbs and the whole tree growing
back?

So that the above, if all true, suggests that we know so little of the
full picture of how the
fungus kills the elm species and that there maybe involved so maple
hosts.

As I noted previously, both the elm and maple in geological times were
indigenous to Asia
and that the Siberian Elm is DED resistant, suggesting that DED killed
off most of the Asian elms leaving only the resistant ones, and that
the maples in Asia had some role. So that North America and Europe are
now repeating that sort of evolution of resistance on their
elms which had already played out in Asia a long time ago.

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

In article
,
Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

Mike Griggs wrote:
In article
,
Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

Now I wonder if there is a link between boisea trivittata, box elder
bug, and ascomycete
microfungi the fungus that causes Dutch Elm Disease, DED. I looked at
the elm bark

NO

beetle and it is about 5 mm long whereas the box elder bug is 12mm
long. So is there some

size has nothing to do with it
link and is there a greater frequency of DED where maples are present?

DED does not require maples

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Just get to a library & do a literature search! There is no
correlation --DED vectored from tree to tree by two bark beetles!

Well, Mike, you live in upstate NY near Cornell and there are plenty
of maples there.

plenty of maples in Florida
There are plenty of maples throughout the northern US and Canada. And
is it not true,
or is it true that the worst DED is in the Northern US + Canada, and
the least DED

Most of the american elms were in the NE!


is in the Southern US? In fact, I would guess that ulmus thomasii is
faring far better

U. t. is a southern species
in the Southern US than in its native geography of the Great Lakes
states.

Am I not correct, that the worst DED is in the Northern USA + Canada
as per frequency
of elm elimination of those species most vulnerable, americana,
racemosa (thomasii)?

If I am correct on that data, then there must be an answer for it. And
the answer looks to
me to be that maples somehow host the DED. Because maples are out of
their range
in the Southern USA.

just because you have deduced a corelation in your head does not mean
that it is true!


I suspect it is highly reasonable to think we only know about 1/2 of
the disease cycle of DED
and the other 1/2 we have yet to learn.

You might want to spend some time in a Library!


Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

In article
,
Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

Now I heard this story about an elm recovery from DED (Dutch Elm
Disease) where there were few to zero maples in the region. Where a
few elm had been attacked with the DED
and those limbs were removed and then the elm making full recovery and
growing to fill
in what it had lost. I have never heard of such a good luck ending
story of any other
elm tree attacked by DED. So there must be an explanation for this,
and it cannot be
good luck, because it is an entire region of elms in the absence of
maples.



OK-- I heard datum that points to cars causing cancer! yes its true! I
heard it so it is so!!! it must be!! Golly thats good science!

But here is the Proof!! There are more cancer victims in NY then
anywhere upstate and there are more cars there so its got to be true!
Explain This--obviously ture!

Another true data !! Water kills everyone who drinks it. This
miraculous molecule while occupying most of our bodies our whole life
kills 100% of all people who ingest it. ITs true--Name one person from
history that did not drink water but is still alive?

Obviously true. so it be science!

This is not scientific datum that you are exuding--it is anecdotal
nonsense!

Go to the library and look up scientific references to this information
There is 40 years of literature that could bring a revelation to you.

Though I doubt it as you love to spout this nonsense!