In article ,
P van Rijckevorsel wrote:

Not to mention that an epithet based on Mr/Dr/Sir/Rev/Whatever Behen should
be "behenii" / "beheniae" (if female) or behenianus/um/a

Okay, I took some Latin in high school in Palaeolithic times, and I
realize that botanical Latin is not quite the same, but can someone
summarize how specific and generic epithets are derived from people's
names?

I think it's the genitive (possessive) case, for specific epithets,
right? But first you have to Latinise the person's name, if it isn't
already, by adding -us to a male name and -a to a female name. So
something named after Anna would be annae, but after Ingrid would be
ingridae, and if it were named after Julius, it would be julii but
after Mr. Smith it would be smithii, because you first Latinise Ingrid
to Ingrida and Smith to Smithus. If it's named after two guys named
Smith, or Mr. and Ms. Smith, it's smithorum, but I don't recall the
feminine genitive declension so dunno what it would be if named after
two women named Smith. Now human beings are generally regarded as
being of only two genders, so you don't have to worry about the neuter
gender in this (ouch) case, but I'm not clear on how you manage
naming something after Mr. Anna or Ms. Julius, or for that matter,
after a man or woman whose name has a Latin neuter ending in the
nominative case, -um.

IIRC, in Latin, possessives take the gender of the owner, not the thing
owned, so when the specific epithet is derived from a person's name, it
doesn't have to agree in gender with the generic name.

Rambling on and continuing to display my ignorance, generic names are
nominative case, I think, but I'm not clear on how personal names are
Latinised in this context, except there seem to be a lot of -ia and
-iana suffixes.

One last bit of possibly incorrect knowledge, when the specific epithet
derives from a place name, the place name is Latinised by adding -ense
for a feminine(?) generic name, or -ensis for a masculine or neuter(?)
generic name. Well, sometimes - I've seen e.g. peruana and I think
peruviana too.

Then there's the problem of Latinising Greek. What I want to know is
if the genus Iris is in the Iridaceae, and I want to name a new plant
after Iris who frequently posts on the newgroup, is the specific
epithet irisae or iridae? So there. (Don't worry, Iris, it'll never
happen, at least from me.)

Beverly Erlebacher schreef
Okay, I took some Latin in high school in Palaeolithic times, and I
realize that botanical Latin is not quite the same, but can someone
summarize how specific and generic epithets are derived from people's
names?

+ + +
It is perhaps easiest to just look it up: specific epithets based on
personal names are covered in Rec 60C
(http://www.bgbm.fu-berlin.de/iapt/no...de/SaintLouis/)

Obviously there is no such thing as a generic epithet, but generic names
based on personal names are covered in Rec 60B
+ + +

I think it's the genitive (possessive) case, for specific epithets,
right?

+ + +
Either a genitive or an adjective
+ + +

But first you have to Latinise the person's name, if it isn't
already, by adding -us to a male name and -a to a female name. So
something named after Anna would be annae, but after Ingrid would be
ingridae, and if it were named after Julius, it would be julii but
after Mr. Smith it would be smithii, because you first Latinise Ingrid
to Ingrida and Smith to Smithus.

+ + +
Don't know about Ingrid, might be "ingridiae".

Traditional Latin added an "-i-" as an honorific (augmentation) to the stem
for what are now surnames. Given names did not get this ("annae"), but at
some point it was decided not to distinguish between given names and
surnames except where established forms exist. In practice there is great
latitude about women's given names which tend to remain unaugmented, even
when not having a strong traditional form ("annettae").
+ + +

If it's named after two guys named
Smith, or Mr. and Ms. Smith, it's smithorum,

+ + +
Since 1988 it is "smithiorum" ("smithorum" is to be corrected as by Art
60.11)
+ + +

but I don't recall the
feminine genitive declension so dunno what it would be if named after
two women named Smith.

+ + +
I would say "smithiarum"
+ + +

Now human beings are generally regarded as
being of only two genders, so you don't have to worry about the neuter
gender in this (ouch) case, but I'm not clear on how you manage
naming something after Mr. Anna or Ms. Julius,

+ + +
That would be "annae" and "juliusiae"
+ + +

or for that matter,
after a man or woman whose name has a Latin neuter ending in the
nominative case, -um.

IIRC, in Latin, possessives take the gender of the owner, not the thing
owned, so when the specific epithet is derived from a person's name, it
doesn't have to agree in gender with the generic name.

+ + +
Quite
+ + +

Rambling on and continuing to display my ignorance, generic names are
nominative case, I think, but I'm not clear on how personal names are
Latinised in this context, except there seem to be a lot of -ia and
-iana suffixes.

+ + +
See Rec 60B
+ + +

One last bit of possibly incorrect knowledge, when the specific epithet
derives from a place name, the place name is Latinised by adding -ense
for a feminine(?) generic name, or -ensis for a masculine or neuter(?)
generic name. Well, sometimes - I've seen e.g. peruana and I think
peruviana too.

+ + +
Rec 60D. I am not sure about "-ensis" versus "-ana", etc. It is either size
("havanensis" and "cubana", not "havanana" and "cubensis") or linguistic
(classical geograpical features get an "-ana", etc ending also those with
classical sounding names).

BTW: You are forgetting about geographical adjectives ("saharae")! :^)
+ + +

Then there's the problem of Latinising Greek. What I want to know is
if the genus Iris is in the Iridaceae, and I want to name a new plant
after Iris who frequently posts on the newgroup, is the specific
epithet irisae or iridae? So there. (Don't worry, Iris, it'll never
happen, at least from me.)

+ + +
If a Greek name has an established latinization then it has an established
genitive. This is to be used. No problem. Don't know about Iris.

If treated as a modern name (ie there is no established form) then "irisiae"
PvR

One last bit of possibly incorrect knowledge, when the specific epithet
derives from a place name, the place name is Latinised by adding -ense
for a feminine(?) generic name, or -ensis for a masculine or neuter(?)
generic name. Well, sometimes - I've seen e.g. peruana and I think
peruviana too.

+ + +
Rec 60D. I am not sure about "-ensis" versus "-ana", etc. It is either
size ("havanensis" and "cubana", not "havanana" and "cubensis") or
linguistic (classical geograpical features get an "-ana", etc ending also
those with classical sounding names).

BTW: You are forgetting about geographical adjectives ("saharae")! :^)

+ + +
Oops, slip!
Should be: "You are forgetting about geographical GENITIVES ("saharae")!"

PvR

"Iris Cohen" wrote in message
...
when the specific epithet derives from a place name, the place name is
Latinised by adding -ense for a feminine name, or -ensis for a masculine
or
neuter generic name. Well, sometimes - I've seen e.g. peruana and I think
peruviana too.

The two endings have entirely different uses. -ense means from. Planta
chinense
or sinense means plant from China. -ana or -anum or -anus means in honor
of. It
can be added to the name of a country or a person. There are many
different
plants named rothschildiana, honoring the Rothschilds, who financed
numerous
botanical expeditions.

There do seem to be quite a few exceptions to this. And the Latin root of
'-anus' only implies 'of' or 'pertaining to', not particularly distinct from
'originating from' (cf. 'montanus', 'montana').
..
E.g I'm sure Aira caryophyllea ssp .armoricana is named because it's found
in Brittany, not particularly to honour the place.
Argemone mexicana?
Genista monspessulana / Acer monspessulanum?
Limonium transwallianum?

Anyway, St. Louis code:
"60D.1. An epithet derived from a geographical name is preferably an
adjective and usually takes the termination -ensis, -(a)nus, -inus,
or -icus." (Which fails to mention '-acus' BTW.) It doesn't seem to make any
usage distinctions between these.


At this point various silly thoughts came to mind:
Acer pseudoplatanus - in honour of a fake philosopher

Matthiola incana - in honour of a lost civilization
Galeopsis ladanum - in honour of a triumph of Soviet engineering

"Iris Cohen" wrote
The two endings have entirely different uses. -ense means from. Planta
chinense or sinense means plant from China. -ana or -anum or -anus means in
honor of. It can be added to the name of a country or a person. There are
many different plants named rothschildiana, honoring the Rothschilds, who
financed numerous botanical expeditions.

Martin Rand schreef
There do seem to be quite a few exceptions to this. And the Latin root of
'-anus' only implies 'of' or 'pertaining to', not particularly distinct from
'originating from' (cf. 'montanus', 'montana').

E.g I'm sure Aira caryophyllea ssp armoricana is named because it's found
in Brittany, not particularly to honour the place.
Argemone mexicana?
Genista monspessulana / Acer monspessulanum?
Limonium transwallianum?

Anyway, St. Louis code:
"60D.1. An epithet derived from a geographical name is preferably an
adjective and usually takes the termination -ensis, -(a)nus, -inus,
or -icus."

(Which fails to mention '-acus' BTW.)

It doesn't seem to make any usage distinctions between these.

+ + +
Indeed there is no distinction in usage, otherwise there would be two or
more forms of epithets ("sinense" and 'sinanum'?!?) for popular geographical
names. As a rule there is one epithet for one geographical name.

There does appear to be a pattern as to what kind of geographical names have
what kind of epithet. I don't believe there is a place in Italy that takes a
"-ensis" ending. The further away from Italy a place is the more likely it
appears to get an epithet ending on "-ensis".
PvR

P van Rijckevorsel schreef
Indeed there is no distinction in usage, otherwise there would be two or
more forms of epithets ("sinense" and 'sinanum'?!?) for popular geographical
names. As a rule there is one epithet for one geographical name.

+ + +
I should be more careful! China is indeed an exception:
"chinensis", "sinensis" and "sinicus"

PvR

"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
Martin Rand schreef
There do seem to be quite a few exceptions to this. And the Latin root
of
'-anus' only implies 'of' or 'pertaining to', not particularly distinct
from
'originating from' (cf. 'montanus', 'montana').

E.g I'm sure Aira caryophyllea ssp armoricana is named because it's
found
in Brittany, not particularly to honour the place.
Argemone mexicana?
Genista monspessulana / Acer monspessulanum?
Limonium transwallianum?

Anyway, St. Louis code:
"60D.1. An epithet derived from a geographical name is preferably an
adjective and usually takes the termination -ensis, -(a)nus, -inus,
or -icus."

(Which fails to mention '-acus' BTW.)

It doesn't seem to make any usage distinctions between these.

+ + +
Indeed there is no distinction in usage, otherwise there would be two or
more forms of epithets ("sinense" and 'sinanum'?!?) for popular
geographical
names. As a rule there is one epithet for one geographical name.

There does appear to be a pattern as to what kind of geographical names
have
what kind of epithet. I don't believe there is a place in Italy that takes
a
"-ensis" ending. The further away from Italy a place is the more likely it
appears to get an epithet ending on "-ensis".

Well, I couldn't resist a challenge like that, but it was hard work!

Asplenium x ticinense!
And a whole lot of things baldensis / baldense!

:-)

There does appear to be a pattern as to what kind of geographical names
have what kind of epithet. I don't believe there is a place in Italy that
takes a "-ensis" ending. The further away from Italy a place is the more
likely it appears to get an epithet ending on "-ensis".

Martin Rand schreef
Well, I couldn't resist a challenge like that, but it was hard work!

Asplenium x ticinense!
And a whole lot of things baldensis / baldense!

:-)

+ + +
Allright, allright! I am claiming there is a pattern. It need not be
airtight!

As you know the Romans counted things in distance from Rome. For a long
while not even the whole of what is now Italy was part of the Roman empire.
Northern Italy remained "Gallia cisalpina" and even these days there is a
political movement which tries to separate Northern Italy from the decadent
rest. So within Italy the further away from Rome a locality is the more
likely it is to have an "-ensis" ending. In Stearn there is mention of
"senensis" from Sienna, also in Northern Italy.
On the other end of Italy, also far from Rome there is Sicily with the
epithets "siculus" and "siciliensis", and I guess Sicily is not Italy proper
(as the Italians, and certainly the Romans, count it).
Having said that I am a little uneasy about "baldensis": IPNI mentions a
geographical locality in only a few entries and these include not only
Italy, but also Austria and Roemenia? So maybe there is not only a Monte
Baldo but a second location? Also, Monte Baldo does not really sound as if
it has its roots in Latin?
PvR