Ok the slugs and snails are starting to scare me. Everything is too wet
right now, but when it does dry out some in the mud tunnels, I'm thinking
about trying diatomaceous earth. Anyone had any experience with it?

Pat

I once coated a pepper seedling in diatomaceous earth...the next day a
slug had eaten it. The stuff is useless, especially in damp weather. Get
Escar-Go, or Sluggo...both are different brand names for the same
product, iron phosphate covered in a yeasty bait. Very safe, even around
veggies....and more effective than metaldehyde baits...although the damp
weather we've been having allows the slugs to outcompete any treatment.
I buy mine from Gardens Alive, but its also sold by Planet Natural. Take
care, Eric Muehlbauer in Queens NY....very cold and damp!

try deadline MPS

it is mataldyhyde in a paraffin pellet it lasts about 3 weeks in the moist
environment of the greenhouse

Jim
"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Ok the slugs and snails are starting to scare me. Everything is too wet
right now, but when it does dry out some in the mud tunnels, I'm thinking
about trying diatomaceous earth. Anyone had any experience with it?

Pat

Subject: Slug threat level elevated to ORANGE
From: Eric Muehlbauer
Date: Tue, Jun 17, 2003 7:30 PM
Message-id:

I once coated a pepper seedling in diatomaceous earth...the next day a
slug had eaten it. The stuff is useless, especially in damp weather. Get
Escar-Go, or Sluggo...both are different brand names for the same
product, iron phosphate covered in a yeasty bait. Very safe, even around
veggies....and more effective than metaldehyde baits...although the damp
weather we've been having allows the slugs to outcompete any treatment.
I buy mine from Gardens Alive, but its also sold by Planet Natural. Take
care, Eric Muehlbauer in Queens NY....very cold and damp!




On different forums there a number of growers who swear that diatomaceous earth
is the best thing coming down the pike to control slugs.
I agree completely with this post, and for me it was useless. I now have most
of a 25lb bag and would love to get rid of it but postage is more than the cost
of the material.

you're supposed to spread diatomaceous earth on the ground where slugs play and
it will kill them by dehydrating them.


I once coated a pepper seedling in diatomaceous earth...the next day a
slug had eaten it. The stuff is useless, especially in damp weather. Get
Escar-Go, or Sluggo...both are different brand names for the same
product, iron phosphate covered in a yeasty bait. Very safe, even around
veggies....and more effective than metaldehyde baits...although the damp
weather we've been having allows the slugs to outcompete any treatment.
I buy mine from Gardens Alive, but its also sold by Planet Natural. Take
care, Eric Muehlbauer in Queens NY....very cold and damp!




On different forums there a number of growers who swear that diatomaceous earth
is the best thing coming down the pike to control slugs.
I agree completely with this post, and for me it was useless. I now have most
of a 25lb bag and would love to get rid of it but postage is more than the cost
of the material.

That's like the line from 'Aliens': lay down a supressing fire and withdraw.
(The platoon is getting hacked to death and that was the best advice the Lt
could come up with.) Better advice was 'Nuke them from space, its the only
way to be sure.'

I'm a nuke them from space kinda guy. I like to be sure. When I built my GH
I kept in mind one of Aaron Hicks (no relation) posts when he wrote about a
tree ouside a university greenhouse housing so many slugs that one day it
just sort of collapsed in on ittself from all the eaten crud. So I left a
clear zone of 2-3 feet around the GH so slugs would dehydrate before ever
crossing this desert zone. Low and behold, they still made it in. The
suckers must pack for the journey. ("There's a promised land over there
Cornelia, and *we can make it*") So don't believe the 'they'll dehydrate'
theory. Believe the line from 'Jurassic Park': Nature will find a way.

I'm reasonably sure these new slugs didn't hatch from eggs, nor did they
come in on new purchases. And, while I'm not as fastidious as Wilford in
using bleach in the GH for algae control, I do spray it around occasionally
and that chases any lurkers out from under benches and out of pots. Its been
quite a while since I've seen any more slugs. When I do I pick them up and
toss them onto the patio concrete to fry in the noonday sun. (take that)

After that I use any of the baits that have been mentioned here. The higher
in metaldehyde the better result.

K Barrett


"Martin" wrote in message
...
you're supposed to spread diatomaceous earth on the ground where slugs
play and
it will kill them by dehydrating them.

This is good advice for anybody building a greenhouse or an outdoor grow
area. It will help lower the numbers of many types of pests which find food
and shelter in your orchids. Not just slugs, but mites and thrip numbers
can be lowered by a cleanzone. Keep brush and grass clear of greenhouse for
several feet around it as part of an overall IPM strategy.

Of course, the material that you cover this cleanzone with is important. If
you use mulch you are probably adding breeding spaces for snails and slugs
even if the lack of grass and plant material there will help keep down thrip
and mite levels. Gravel would be the same, maybe a little better, since
slugs and snails will also make food of decomposing plant matter. However,
either is better than plants or grass grown right up to the greenhouse wall.

I use mulch in my cleanzone but I always poison it too. Several times a
year when it is really damp. I also spread bait and poison under the
benches for slugs that manage to get passed the cleanzone. Yet a few always
do and always will.

Diatomaceous earth is suppose to work for two reason, I have heard. One, it
has a lot of sharp areas which irritate the foot of slugs and snails who
might choose another direction if they encounter too much of it. And two,
it is made of a material which itself is an irritant to their tissue:
limestone and calcium. The problem with it, I suspect, is that it is too
low a concentration of "diatoms" and too high a concentration of "earth" and
the slugs just go around the irritating part.

I have heard a good material for floors and cleanzones is crushed sea shell.
Not just a mix of earth and shells but a real thick mulch of it. I think
this might be a more effective deterrent than diatomaceous earth, because it
is just more of the same stuff that the organisms don't like walking on.

And all of these materials are only deterrents after all. They are a sign
that say, "slugs not welcomed here, go visit Al who just uses mulch for a
welcome mat." Diatomaceous earth and crushed sea shells are not poison.
They don't kill. They just irritate and make you seem an inhospitable host
even if you are offering orchids and pepper plants for dinner and an
enclosed protected space where your monoped guests don't need to worry about
critters that eat them, like birds and garter snakes.

100% eradication (control) is not possible even with a poison, of course.

For slugs and snails along the east coast this spring, while all the
conditions are right for a slug and snail population explosion and the
little fiends come bearing box cutters and explosives in their shoe, you
will probably need to use a whole arsenal of controls to keep their numbers
down.

How does iron phosphate work on them? Is it a poison to them?

I am thinking that the damage to my garden from Japanese Beetles will be
much lower this year due to all this water. I figure a whole lot of grubs
have drowned this spring. Just looking for the bright side...



"K Barrett" wrote in message
et...
So I left a
clear zone of 2-3 feet around the GH so slugs would dehydrate before ever
crossing this desert zone. Low and behold, they still made it in. The
suckers must pack for the journey.

The problem is that the DE sold for filtration purposes has usually been
thoroughly cleaned before packaging, and the washing rounds off the sharps
edges and points.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"Al" wrote in message
...
This is good advice for anybody building a greenhouse or an outdoor grow
area. It will help lower the numbers of many types of pests which find
food
and shelter in your orchids. Not just slugs, but mites and thrip numbers
can be lowered by a cleanzone. Keep brush and grass clear of greenhouse
for
several feet around it as part of an overall IPM strategy.

Of course, the material that you cover this cleanzone with is important.
If
you use mulch you are probably adding breeding spaces for snails and slugs
even if the lack of grass and plant material there will help keep down
thrip
and mite levels. Gravel would be the same, maybe a little better, since
slugs and snails will also make food of decomposing plant matter.
However,
either is better than plants or grass grown right up to the greenhouse
wall.

I use mulch in my cleanzone but I always poison it too. Several times a
year when it is really damp. I also spread bait and poison under the
benches for slugs that manage to get passed the cleanzone. Yet a few
always
do and always will.

Diatomaceous earth is suppose to work for two reason, I have heard. One,
it
has a lot of sharp areas which irritate the foot of slugs and snails who
might choose another direction if they encounter too much of it. And two,
it is made of a material which itself is an irritant to their tissue:
limestone and calcium. The problem with it, I suspect, is that it is too
low a concentration of "diatoms" and too high a concentration of "earth"
and
the slugs just go around the irritating part.

I have heard a good material for floors and cleanzones is crushed sea
shell.
Not just a mix of earth and shells but a real thick mulch of it. I think
this might be a more effective deterrent than diatomaceous earth, because
it
is just more of the same stuff that the organisms don't like walking on.

And all of these materials are only deterrents after all. They are a sign
that say, "slugs not welcomed here, go visit Al who just uses mulch for a
welcome mat." Diatomaceous earth and crushed sea shells are not poison.
They don't kill. They just irritate and make you seem an inhospitable
host
even if you are offering orchids and pepper plants for dinner and an
enclosed protected space where your monoped guests don't need to worry
about
critters that eat them, like birds and garter snakes.

100% eradication (control) is not possible even with a poison, of course.

For slugs and snails along the east coast this spring, while all the
conditions are right for a slug and snail population explosion and the
little fiends come bearing box cutters and explosives in their shoe, you
will probably need to use a whole arsenal of controls to keep their
numbers
down.

How does iron phosphate work on them? Is it a poison to them?

I am thinking that the damage to my garden from Japanese Beetles will be
much lower this year due to all this water. I figure a whole lot of grubs
have drowned this spring. Just looking for the bright side...



"K Barrett" wrote in message
et...
So I left a
clear zone of 2-3 feet around the GH so slugs would dehydrate before
ever
crossing this desert zone. Low and behold, they still made it in. The
suckers must pack for the journey.

"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" wrote in message
...
The problem is that the DE sold for filtration purposes has usually been
thoroughly cleaned before packaging, and the washing rounds off the sharps
edges and points.

So then the question becomes "Where can you get DE that hasn't been so
abused?" I have not yet been able to find someone in any local garden
centre who even knows what it is, let alone a vendor able to provide it.

Cheers,

Ted

By the way, the Gardens Alive catalog, which sells Escar-Go as well as
DE, now admits that diatomaceous earth is not really effective against
slugs. In their words, the slugs just "slime" their way over it. Take
care, Eric Muehlbauer

Maybe the recommendation of DE was based upon material available "way back
when" - and OLD old wives' tale - when sterility and general cleanliness
wasn't such a public issue.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"Ted Byers" wrote in message
...

"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" wrote in message
...
The problem is that the DE sold for filtration purposes has usually been
thoroughly cleaned before packaging, and the washing rounds off the
sharps
edges and points.

So then the question becomes "Where can you get DE that hasn't been so
abused?" I have not yet been able to find someone in any local garden
centre who even knows what it is, let alone a vendor able to provide it.

Cheers,

Ted

I've had good results here in Seattle (giant and lots of slugs country) by
wrapping the frame of my GH in an inch wide copper strip then also wrapping
the legs of the benches in the same. I almost never find any inside (and
there are LOTS outside) and most but not all of the time, I can attribute it
to a plant I've brought in from outside.

"K Barrett" wrote in message
et...
That's like the line from 'Aliens': lay down a supressing fire and
withdraw.
(The platoon is getting hacked to death and that was the best advice the
Lt
could come up with.) Better advice was 'Nuke them from space, its the only
way to be sure.'

I'm a nuke them from space kinda guy. I like to be sure. When I built my
GH
I kept in mind one of Aaron Hicks (no relation) posts when he wrote about
a
tree ouside a university greenhouse housing so many slugs that one day it
just sort of collapsed in on ittself from all the eaten crud. So I left a
clear zone of 2-3 feet around the GH so slugs would dehydrate before ever
crossing this desert zone. Low and behold, they still made it in. The
suckers must pack for the journey. ("There's a promised land over there
Cornelia, and *we can make it*") So don't believe the 'they'll dehydrate'
theory. Believe the line from 'Jurassic Park': Nature will find a way.

I'm reasonably sure these new slugs didn't hatch from eggs, nor did they
come in on new purchases. And, while I'm not as fastidious as Wilford in
using bleach in the GH for algae control, I do spray it around
occasionally
and that chases any lurkers out from under benches and out of pots. Its
been
quite a while since I've seen any more slugs. When I do I pick them up and
toss them onto the patio concrete to fry in the noonday sun. (take that)

After that I use any of the baits that have been mentioned here. The
higher
in metaldehyde the better result.

K Barrett


"Martin" wrote in message
...
you're supposed to spread diatomaceous earth on the ground where slugs
play and
it will kill them by dehydrating them.

I've found that iron phosphate works on the Seattle slugs.

I used to live on the east coast (Baltimore) and I sure don't miss the
Japanese beatles

"Al" wrote in message
...
This is good advice for anybody building a greenhouse or an outdoor grow
area. It will help lower the numbers of many types of pests which find
food
and shelter in your orchids. Not just slugs, but mites and thrip numbers
can be lowered by a cleanzone. Keep brush and grass clear of greenhouse
for
several feet around it as part of an overall IPM strategy.

Of course, the material that you cover this cleanzone with is important.
If
you use mulch you are probably adding breeding spaces for snails and slugs
even if the lack of grass and plant material there will help keep down
thrip
and mite levels. Gravel would be the same, maybe a little better, since
slugs and snails will also make food of decomposing plant matter.
However,
either is better than plants or grass grown right up to the greenhouse
wall.

I use mulch in my cleanzone but I always poison it too. Several times a
year when it is really damp. I also spread bait and poison under the
benches for slugs that manage to get passed the cleanzone. Yet a few
always
do and always will.

Diatomaceous earth is suppose to work for two reason, I have heard. One,
it
has a lot of sharp areas which irritate the foot of slugs and snails who
might choose another direction if they encounter too much of it. And two,
it is made of a material which itself is an irritant to their tissue:
limestone and calcium. The problem with it, I suspect, is that it is too
low a concentration of "diatoms" and too high a concentration of "earth"
and
the slugs just go around the irritating part.

I have heard a good material for floors and cleanzones is crushed sea
shell.
Not just a mix of earth and shells but a real thick mulch of it. I think
this might be a more effective deterrent than diatomaceous earth, because
it
is just more of the same stuff that the organisms don't like walking on.

And all of these materials are only deterrents after all. They are a sign
that say, "slugs not welcomed here, go visit Al who just uses mulch for a
welcome mat." Diatomaceous earth and crushed sea shells are not poison.
They don't kill. They just irritate and make you seem an inhospitable
host
even if you are offering orchids and pepper plants for dinner and an
enclosed protected space where your monoped guests don't need to worry
about
critters that eat them, like birds and garter snakes.

100% eradication (control) is not possible even with a poison, of course.

For slugs and snails along the east coast this spring, while all the
conditions are right for a slug and snail population explosion and the
little fiends come bearing box cutters and explosives in their shoe, you
will probably need to use a whole arsenal of controls to keep their
numbers
down.

How does iron phosphate work on them? Is it a poison to them?

I am thinking that the damage to my garden from Japanese Beetles will be
much lower this year due to all this water. I figure a whole lot of grubs
have drowned this spring. Just looking for the bright side...



"K Barrett" wrote in message
et...
So I left a
clear zone of 2-3 feet around the GH so slugs would dehydrate before
ever
crossing this desert zone. Low and behold, they still made it in. The
suckers must pack for the journey.

Ray @ First Rays Orchids ) wrote:
: Maybe the recommendation of DE was based upon material available "way back
: when" - and OLD old wives' tale - when sterility and general cleanliness
: wasn't such a public issue.

AFAIK, DE works on insects (e.g. ants) by puncturing the exoskeleton which
has a waxy coating that prevents dehydration. Once the exoskeleton has been
compromised the insect dehydrates. Snails and slugs are molluscs which have
a pretty different physiology as compared to insects so the same mechanism
of injury doesn't apply (although I suppose it's possible there could be a
different mechanism). However, I would have no trouble believing that an old
wives' tale arouse using the logic that if it works on one bug it probably
works on all bugs.

Dave

: --

: Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
: http://www.firstrays.com
: Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


: "Ted Byers" wrote in message
: ...
:
: "Ray @ First Rays Orchids" wrote in message
: ...
: The problem is that the DE sold for filtration purposes has usually been
: thoroughly cleaned before packaging, and the washing rounds off the
: sharps
: edges and points.
:
: So then the question becomes "Where can you get DE that hasn't been so
: abused?" I have not yet been able to find someone in any local garden
: centre who even knows what it is, let alone a vendor able to provide it.
:
: Cheers,
:
: Ted
: