Haraella retrocalla
Psygmorchis pusilla

A man I know with these two orchids in his Dart Frog vivarium has put
seed capsules on them. Ordinarily I would tell people not to worry
about a capsule ripening within 8 weeks of pollination. "Don't worry
about signs of ripening for 8 to 10 weeks after pollination: That's
like the minimum time required and most are longer." Somehow the
small size of these two plants makes me want to second guess this
assumption and as usual the internet is mum on orchid capsule ripening
data.

I wrote to Troy Meyers to see if he had any specific data to share on
these two species or any general comments about tiny orchid species
and their capsule ripening times, but I thought I might also toss the
question into the cyberwind and see what blew back....

That pod ripening page says Haraella retrocalla ripens in 170-180 days.
Sorry it doesn't say anything about the Psygmorchis.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barryg/SPECIES.htm

K Barrett

"alpickrel" wrote in message
...
Haraella retrocalla
Psygmorchis pusilla

A man I know with these two orchids in his Dart Frog vivarium has put
seed capsules on them. Ordinarily I would tell people not to worry
about a capsule ripening within 8 weeks of pollination. "Don't worry
about signs of ripening for 8 to 10 weeks after pollination: That's
like the minimum time required and most are longer." Somehow the
small size of these two plants makes me want to second guess this
assumption and as usual the internet is mum on orchid capsule ripening
data.

I wrote to Troy Meyers to see if he had any specific data to share on
these two species or any general comments about tiny orchid species
and their capsule ripening times, but I thought I might also toss the
question into the cyberwind and see what blew back....

On Dec 8, 11:40 am, "K Barrett" wrote:
That pod ripening page says Haraella retrocalla ripens in 170-180 days.
Sorry it doesn't say anything about the Psygmorchis.http://members.iinet.net.au/~barryg/SPECIES.htm

K Barrett

"alpickrel" wrote in message

...



Haraella retrocalla
Psygmorchis pusilla

A man I know with these two orchids in his Dart Frog vivarium has put
seed capsules on them. Ordinarily I would tell people not to worry
about a capsule ripening within 8 weeks of pollination. "Don't worry
about signs of ripening for 8 to 10 weeks after pollination: That's
like the minimum time required and most are longer." Somehow the
small size of these two plants makes me want to second guess this
assumption and as usual the internet is mum on orchid capsule ripening
data.

I wrote to Troy Meyers to see if he had any specific data to share on
these two species or any general comments about tiny orchid species
and their capsule ripening times, but I thought I might also toss the
question into the cyberwind and see what blew back....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, that site did not come up when I seached. Thank you.

Casting no aspersions on anyone's knowledge base: Troy Meyers did
respond to my email and, of course, his observation on H. retrocalla
capsule times are three times as long. WIth capsule times one should
never expect the answers to be in the same ballpark. The site says
the 170 to 180 days are for green pod sewings and I assume Troy meant
time to dehiscence.

"alpickrel" wrote in message
...
On Dec 8, 11:40 am, "K Barrett" wrote:
That pod ripening page says Haraella retrocalla ripens in 170-180 days.
Sorry it doesn't say anything about the
Psygmorchis.http://members.iinet.net.au/~barryg/SPECIES.htm

K Barrett

"alpickrel" wrote in message

...



Haraella retrocalla
Psygmorchis pusilla

A man I know with these two orchids in his Dart Frog vivarium has put
seed capsules on them. Ordinarily I would tell people not to worry
about a capsule ripening within 8 weeks of pollination. "Don't worry
about signs of ripening for 8 to 10 weeks after pollination: That's
like the minimum time required and most are longer." Somehow the
small size of these two plants makes me want to second guess this
assumption and as usual the internet is mum on orchid capsule ripening
data.

I wrote to Troy Meyers to see if he had any specific data to share on
these two species or any general comments about tiny orchid species
and their capsule ripening times, but I thought I might also toss the
question into the cyberwind and see what blew back....- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, that site did not come up when I seached. Thank you.

Casting no aspersions on anyone's knowledge base: Troy Meyers did
respond to my email and, of course, his observation on H. retrocalla
capsule times are three times as long. WIth capsule times one should
never expect the answers to be in the same ballpark. The site says
the 170 to 180 days are for green pod sewings and I assume Troy meant
time to dehiscence.

I looked in my series of orchid biology books (arditti) and couldn't find
anything for the Psygmorchis.

In my extremely, laughably, limited experience ( I've set about 9 pods grand
total - none of which produced seed) ripening times were way longer than I
expected. I wondered if the season might have something to do with this.
The pods (capsules) I've set have all been catt alliance hybrids or
brassavolas, and have over wintered before maturing (dehiscing). Granted I
keep the GH pretty cold (55F about min in winter - last night it got to
52F). I can't imagine that there's be much growing going on over winter,
especially at these temps. But one can only set a pod when the flower is
open and if that means the pod sits over winter then there you are.

K

On Dec 9, 11:44 am, "K Barrett" wrote:
"alpickrel" wrote in message

...





On Dec 8, 11:40 am, "K Barrett" wrote:
That pod ripening page says Haraella retrocalla ripens in 170-180 days.
Sorry it doesn't say anything about the
Psygmorchis.http://members.iinet.net.au/~barryg/SPECIES.htm

K Barrett

"alpickrel" wrote in message

...

Haraella retrocalla
Psygmorchis pusilla

A man I know with these two orchids in his Dart Frog vivarium has put
seed capsules on them. Ordinarily I would tell people not to worry
about a capsule ripening within 8 weeks of pollination. "Don't worry
about signs of ripening for 8 to 10 weeks after pollination: That's
like the minimum time required and most are longer." Somehow the
small size of these two plants makes me want to second guess this
assumption and as usual the internet is mum on orchid capsule ripening
data.

I wrote to Troy Meyers to see if he had any specific data to share on
these two species or any general comments about tiny orchid species
and their capsule ripening times, but I thought I might also toss the
question into the cyberwind and see what blew back....- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, that site did not come up when I seached. Thank you.

Casting no aspersions on anyone's knowledge base: Troy Meyers did
respond to my email and, of course, his observation on H. retrocalla
capsule times are three times as long. WIth capsule times one should
never expect the answers to be in the same ballpark. The site says
the 170 to 180 days are for green pod sewings and I assume Troy meant
time to dehiscence.

I looked in my series of orchid biology books (arditti) and couldn't find
anything for the Psygmorchis.

In my extremely, laughably, limited experience ( I've set about 9 pods grand
total - none of which produced seed) ripening times were way longer than I
expected. I wondered if the season might have something to do with this.
The pods (capsules) I've set have all been catt alliance hybrids or
brassavolas, and have over wintered before maturing (dehiscing). Granted I
keep the GH pretty cold (55F about min in winter - last night it got to
52F). I can't imagine that there's be much growing going on over winter,
especially at these temps. But one can only set a pod when the flower is
open and if that means the pod sits over winter then there you are.

K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have 300 crosses in my log as of this date. 114 of them have
failed. Close to 100 of the 114 have failed within the first 3 months
of pollination. This leaves 167 that have made it to dihisence (or
green capsule sewing) and I don't have data *easily at my finger tips*
to report exactly how many of these had little or no germination and/
or viable seed. I would guess close to half.

The three longest capsule times in my database are 442, 366, 355
days. These were all flasked as green capsules and I do not know when
if ever they would have ripened, I just got tired of waiting. I did
find that each of these three had lots of germination.

The 355 day capsule was a Phal parishi, a tiny plant.

Most of my experaince is with Phals.

If your smart, you will stop reading here....

FWIW, and a bit off topic; it would behoove anyone who planed to do
lots of hybridizing to look into buying a microscope with the ability
to examine what comes out of these capsules for live seed before you
plant it. Lots of times I think you get empty seed coats without
embryos and to the naked eye these look like "seeds". or 'dust'
depending on how you want to describe the chief physical
characteristic of orchid embryos

Another time saving step is to invest in chromosome counting of your
parent plants. It is an expensive deadend to cross plants with widely
divergent chromosome counts or aneuploids (with irregular chromosome
counts). One of the chief symptoms, in my opinion, of badly matched
chromosome numbers and/or anueploid offspring will be, aborted
capsules and/or little or no viable seed. I say this without knowing
the chromosome count of any of my plants but with the vague awareness
that most interspecies hybrids have latent aneuploidy issues. ;-)
The other long term symptoms will be plants that grow badly....again
an expensive and long side trip with no good end in site.

"alpickrel" wrote in message
...
On Dec 9, 11:44 am, "K Barrett" wrote:
"alpickrel" wrote in message

...





On Dec 8, 11:40 am, "K Barrett" wrote:
That pod ripening page says Haraella retrocalla ripens in 170-180
days.
Sorry it doesn't say anything about the
Psygmorchis.http://members.iinet.net.au/~barryg/SPECIES.htm

K Barrett

"alpickrel" wrote in message

...

Haraella retrocalla
Psygmorchis pusilla

A man I know with these two orchids in his Dart Frog vivarium has
put
seed capsules on them. Ordinarily I would tell people not to worry
about a capsule ripening within 8 weeks of pollination. "Don't
worry
about signs of ripening for 8 to 10 weeks after pollination: That's
like the minimum time required and most are longer." Somehow the
small size of these two plants makes me want to second guess this
assumption and as usual the internet is mum on orchid capsule
ripening
data.

I wrote to Troy Meyers to see if he had any specific data to share
on
these two species or any general comments about tiny orchid species
and their capsule ripening times, but I thought I might also toss
the
question into the cyberwind and see what blew back....- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, that site did not come up when I seached. Thank you.

Casting no aspersions on anyone's knowledge base: Troy Meyers did
respond to my email and, of course, his observation on H. retrocalla
capsule times are three times as long. WIth capsule times one should
never expect the answers to be in the same ballpark. The site says
the 170 to 180 days are for green pod sewings and I assume Troy meant
time to dehiscence.

I looked in my series of orchid biology books (arditti) and couldn't find
anything for the Psygmorchis.

In my extremely, laughably, limited experience ( I've set about 9 pods
grand
total - none of which produced seed) ripening times were way longer than
I
expected. I wondered if the season might have something to do with this.
The pods (capsules) I've set have all been catt alliance hybrids or
brassavolas, and have over wintered before maturing (dehiscing). Granted
I
keep the GH pretty cold (55F about min in winter - last night it got to
52F). I can't imagine that there's be much growing going on over winter,
especially at these temps. But one can only set a pod when the flower is
open and if that means the pod sits over winter then there you are.

K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have 300 crosses in my log as of this date. 114 of them have
failed. Close to 100 of the 114 have failed within the first 3 months
of pollination. This leaves 167 that have made it to dihisence (or
green capsule sewing) and I don't have data *easily at my finger tips*
to report exactly how many of these had little or no germination and/
or viable seed. I would guess close to half.

The three longest capsule times in my database are 442, 366, 355
days. These were all flasked as green capsules and I do not know when
if ever they would have ripened, I just got tired of waiting. I did
find that each of these three had lots of germination.

The 355 day capsule was a Phal parishi, a tiny plant.

Most of my experaince is with Phals.

If your smart, you will stop reading here....

FWIW, and a bit off topic; it would behoove anyone who planed to do
lots of hybridizing to look into buying a microscope with the ability
to examine what comes out of these capsules for live seed before you
plant it. Lots of times I think you get empty seed coats without
embryos and to the naked eye these look like "seeds". or 'dust'
depending on how you want to describe the chief physical
characteristic of orchid embryos

Another time saving step is to invest in chromosome counting of your
parent plants. It is an expensive deadend to cross plants with widely
divergent chromosome counts or aneuploids (with irregular chromosome
counts). One of the chief symptoms, in my opinion, of badly matched
chromosome numbers and/or anueploid offspring will be, aborted
capsules and/or little or no viable seed. I say this without knowing
the chromosome count of any of my plants but with the vague awareness
that most interspecies hybrids have latent aneuploidy issues. ;-)
The other long term symptoms will be plants that grow badly....again
an expensive and long side trip with no good end in site.

All good points (about hybridizing) I only went so far as to ask the people
who sold me the parental stock whether my parents were 4 n or not. And
pretty much I was given to understand that most catts are all similar in
chromosome count.... which now that I think about it really doesn't mean
squat, does it?

I looked at the 'dust' with a 30X loupe but really I could have been
confused, because - really - what do I know about what seed looks like?
They didn't look like the cover of Aaron Hicks' book, *G*

Guess I don't come up to Dean Stocks' definition of a hybridizer, do I?
ROTFLMAO!

K Barrett